So what is PLD good at?

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

WAR: 11250 HP (in Defiance)
PLD: 9000 HP (in Shield Oath)
Tank buster: 8000 damage (completely unmitigated)
WAR and PLD both don't pop any CDs.
WAR: 11250 - 8000 = 3250 HP remaining
PLD: 9000 HP - 6400 (Shield Oath is -20% damage taken) = 2600

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Heal : 2000
WAR : 3250 + 2400 (20% Defiance) = 5650
PLD : 2600 + 2000 = 4600

1st Auto attack : 3250
WAR : 5650 - 3250 = 2400
PLD : 4600 - 2600 = 2000

Heal : 2000
WAR : 2400 + 2400 = 4800
PLD : 2000 + 2000 = 4000

2nd Auto attack : 3250
WAR : 4800 - 3250 = 1550
PLD : 4000 - 2600 = 1400

Heal : 2000
WAR : 1550 + 2400 = 3950
PLD : 1400 + 2000 = 3400

3rd Auto attack : 3250
WAR : 3850 - 3250 = 600
PLD : 3400 - 2600 = 800

So by the 3rd Auto-attack, PLD has more HP remaining than WAR. Not enough for surviving the next auto-attack, sure, but in the long run and in a real fight, PLD will stay at higher % remaining HP than WAR because Defiance only provides 20% boost to healing magic. And it's even before considering than one of those auto-attack might be blocked passively for an additionnal ~20% mitigation.

TL;DR WAR gets hit for 25% more damage than PLD but healed for only 20% more.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

TL;DR WAR gets hit for 25% more damage than PLD but healed for only 20% more.

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In a purely hypothetical situation, which would literally never happen, where both tanks stood infront of the mob, somehow held agro and yet did absolutely nothing... Yes, Shield Oath ius slightly better than Defiance.

Unlike the PLD however, the WAR heals itself with its attacks, also as long as you're keeping your debuffs up, Storm's Path is better than Rage of Halone for reducing incoming damage. The fact that this is *STILL* being argued about should tell you that both tanks are good and are roughly evenly balanced. It really should come down to taking the best player and not some preconceived (and probably incorrect) notion of which tank is "better".

Still, don't let me stop the impossible situation comparrisons.

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Originally Posted by Paikis

In a purely hypothetical situation, which would literally never happen, where both tanks stood infront of the mob, somehow held agro and yet did absolutely nothing... Yes, Shield Oath is slightly better than Defiance.

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I think it's more of a hunch than real effectiveness. The purely hypothetical situation is enough to make healers uncomfortable and seeing bigger damage on the tank is scarier for them.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

But likewise, I'm struggling to think of any scenario in the game in which pld is better than war as an off tank.

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Originally Posted by Able

There really isn't one. Defiance being off the GCD combined with how much damage a WAR can do just makes it the ideal OT.

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According to calculation, if the WAR put the slashing debuff, an equally gear PLD in SwOath will always do more damage than a WAR without Defiance. Not a "lot" more, but more nonetheless

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I think it's more of a hunch than real effectiveness. The purely hypothetical situation is enough to make healers uncomfortable and seeing bigger damage on the tank is scarier for them.

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Since when does maths care about people's feelings? The difference in mitigation/healing received based on Defiance v Shield Oath is so small as to be effectively meaningless, regardless of how uncomfortable it might make people feel to see bigger numbers.

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Originally Posted by Paikis

Since when does maths care about people's feelings? The difference in mitigation/healing received based on Defiance v Shield Oath is so small as to be effectively meaningless, regardless of how uncomfortable it might make people feel to see bigger numbers.

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That's exactly my point. You can prove what you want with numbers, most healers "feel" safer healing a PLD than a WAR. You can't reason a feeling.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's exactly my point. You can prove what you want with numbers, most healers "feel" safer healing a PLD than a WAR. You can't reason a feeling.

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I agree with this. I think this is partially due to skilled WARs being more prone to drop Defiance when Unchained ends, which obviously makes everything hurt a lot more and they don't have enough mitigation CDs to compensate for Unchained's full 120s cooldown. I know I certainly do this as WAR, and I also know it's very noticeable when I'm the SCH who heals these WARs.

T5 and T9 solo tank

Titan Ex

That's about it :P

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

T5 and T9 solo tank

Titan Ex

That's about it :P

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Done both Turn 5 and 9 with WAR solo without any issue.
Titan EX...well, who cares...

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Done both Turn 5 and 9 with WAR solo without any issue.
Titan EX...well, who cares...

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It certainly can be done, but those 3 fights are what PLD is good at. We just need one hanging around for the 4th ahk morn >.>

#War4Life

Heh, I can eat Mountainbusters as DRG these days (and I've had to several times when MT dies for some reason).