PC vs. PS4 limitations

I think another reason is that they don't want to allow cross-platform gaming with competitors, or at least, that's the reasoning it was back then.

Nowadays, they're letting Xbox One games connect to PC gamers in games; I guess XIV just wasn't lucky.

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Originally Posted by JonLuso

@Kosmos: Look, I can see you're getting peeved about the subject, it's obvious. But, you keep referring to points that the PS4 is just as capable as a PC (low-mid ranged), it seems like. All I'm saying is that, no, it's not. The fact is that PS4 hard-locks the game to the PS4's specs. Once a developer commits to developing on PS4, it cannot freely hardware-scale like it may have done in the past. Simply cutting the cord on a console base is disastrous, as most have pointed out. This is a product of locked-in specs; PC's will never have this issue as low-mid ranged PCs will simply be dropped in lieu of newer PCs for PC-only games/upgrades. Simple as that. I'm aware that PC is not under attack; I'm just amazed that people think that PS4 isn't at fault, or at least, that's the vibe I'm getting.

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I'm peeved because it's a pointless discussion and needlessly divisive.

Your point seems to be that because PS4 is a closed platform it will receive no hardware upgrades. Clearly, that's not in question. However, PCs are not some magical boxes that auto-upgrade themselves either. The absolute vast majority of PCS will never see an upgrade past a USB storage device, and that includes most PCs used to play games.

You say "Once a developer commits to developing on PS4, it cannot freely hardware-scale like it may have done in the past", and yet I think you are missing the point. A developer of a PC game has to be aware of what target platforms (plural) they are targeting because their game has to work on a vast variety of hardware configurations and capability including the lowest common denominator of PC configurations that they can/will support. The game engine therefore has to scale itself for the hardware it's running on. I trust we can agree on that point?

Now the thing is, that with the exception of the Sony specific authentication/networking elements, the PS4 version is the PC version. In other words, the PS4 is now just another one of the various flavor of PC that the developer has to consider in their work. Even if the game begins supporting newer and more powerful PC configurations, the game still scales to the lowest common denominator.

The sticking point for me here is that you seem to want to treat the PS4 as if it is something special, something exceptional that causes more of a problem in this regard than low-mid range PCs do. What I am saying is that there is no reason to do so.

Sure you can upgrade the high end PCs but that doesn't alter the fact that the overwhelming majority will remain unaltered, and short of forcing those players to buy another computer, you better keep supporting their configuration. In practice and effect, that is exactly the same impact as you are ascribing to the PS4 because it cannot be upgraded.

As I said at the start, it's a pointless discussion and needlessly divisive, I'm kicking myself for even responding and for being drawn into an even more pointless argument since despite our different angles on the thing, we broadly agree.

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Originally Posted by JonLuso

I think another reason is that they don't want to allow cross-platform gaming with competitors, or at least, that's the reasoning it was back then.

Nowadays, they're letting Xbox One games connect to PC gamers in games; I guess XIV just wasn't lucky.

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No, not quite. MS doesn't want to give open access to developers, they want everything to be mediated through XBL including all revenue (even subs). It's basically a revenue grab by MS, they want a % of everything including subs. With Sony, the only fee is the per game royalty that applies to all Playstation games. SE is free to update the game, run the subscription service, and Mog station items entirely outside PSN leaving SE to receive 100% of the revenue generated.

With respect to MS, games that they allow cross platform play on are (IIRC) Windows games that are exclusive to MS platforms - in other words, they are not entirely cross platform. You won't see a Mac version of them for example.

The difference between supporting the PS4 and supporting low-end PCs is essentially the drop in revenue you get from dropping one for the other. Rather, the established consumer base for PS4 would, apparently, outnumber that of the the former. But that's not even the point. The main crux of the reasoning I employed is that, the "impact" you get from dropping the low-end PCs over the PS4 is marginal at best.

Referring to an earlier point that many collaborate on, PC gamers tend to stay on top of hardware and software developments. To say that most gamers of this spectrum would lose out on developers dropping support for older legacy hardware is hardly true or even remotely as effectual compared to console phasing.

Dropping support on PS4 is different: this is a different consumer base. These players either purchased it for the solace that it would be supported for years to come or that they decided to avoid the apparent nuances of building a gaming PC. Whatever the premise or reasoning for obtaining a PS4, developers realize these reasons and commit to a console much more feverishly compared to lower-end PC's. The 2 are not alike when it comes to sales reductions in terms of hardware phasing.

It's easy to compare similar hardware technically, but the root of such hardware differs; in this case, the only reason hardware-scaling happens is because developers wish to innovate and go beyond previous set limits. They cannot do this with a console because of the aforementioned reason. They simple must deal with it and try to push the console in such a manner that still warrants a continued consumer support base.

Consoles will always hold games back; low-end PCs do, as well, but they never do so in the way consoles do.

I play on both. Generally if im soloing, doing quests, or storyline Ill just sit back on my couch and play the PS4 version. But if I run dungeons or raids I run it on PC. Thats pretty much my life with the game.

The PS4 version does not look anywhere near as good as the PC version with graphics maxed out, there is a big difference, but I don't play MMO's for graphics lol.

I like both versions just fine, but when it's time to get serious, I always login to PC.

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Originally Posted by JonLuso

Consoles will always hold games back; low-end PCs do, as well, but they never do so in the way consoles do.

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On this point, we shall have to agree to disagree.

I believe that we also disagree in that I do not believe that the majority of people playing games on their PC are aware of the hardware and software developments in PC gaming, I think that they only care if their game works. Another point I think we shall have to agree to disagree on.

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Originally Posted by JonLuso

...Consoles will always hold games back...

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This was true decades ago, when computers were still struggling to hammer out a standard and game consoles were 'special snowflakes'. The last genuine 'special snowflake' console was the PS3 and Sony learned their lesson with it. Each one was cost more than it sold for. The PS4 is essentially a mid-range PC using standard parts in a well-designed 'tower'. The benefit of it for developers, though, is that it's going to be the same standard parts for the life of the console. Instead of designing for a range of component configurations you can instead challenge the console's singular configuration. It's quite the load off your back knowing Timmy with his 8 year old PC isn't going to be trying to run the game.

When I say consoles will hold games back, I mean that in the theoretical sense.

Games are tailored to current platforms, and it may be even such that current consoles are able to handle the vision that developers are aiming for.

But, what I'm referring to is the fact that games are being developed within a metaphoric "enclosed space"; PCs will always be a place where the possibilities are, for all intents and purposes, endless. Consoles are exponentially increasing in hardware potential, yes, but PCs always can be outfitted with the best that hardware has to offer.

I'm, in no way, saying that consoles aren't viable. But, in the case of multi-platform gaming, consoles are the plateau of development when they are thrown into the mix with PCs.

If games are first developed on consoles and then ported over to PCs, the games were optimized with consoles in mind. Any limitations the consoles impose are apparent, but one could find solace in that the game was developed with this in mind as opposed to the other possible continuum taking place.

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Originally Posted by ZemusM

I play on both. Generally if im soloing, doing quests, or storyline Ill just sit back on my couch and play the PS4 version. But if I run dungeons or raids I run it on PC. Thats pretty much my life with the game.

The PS4 version does not look anywhere near as good as the PC version with graphics maxed out, there is a big difference, but I don't play MMO's for graphics lol.

I like both versions just fine, but when it's time to get serious, I always login to PC.

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As someone that plays on both as well, I agree with everything you've said. I love my ps4 but there's this tiny bit of sluggishness to it that doesn't exist on my PC. I couldn't care less about the graphical difference (which is, however, obvious if you play on ps4 for a while and then go back to PC); it's the smooth performance I'm looking for first and foremost. I have a feeling that the huge areas in heavensward might widen this gulf a bit as well, but we'll see.

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Originally Posted by ZemusM

but when it's time to get serious, I always login to PC.

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This about sums it up for me.