So BLM as AOE covered, MNK has single target... What does SMN bring?

Simply way buff summoner is buff pet damage. That wont affect SCH in any way.

People keep bringing up Res. Even though I said BESIDES a res.

And they also say and E4E. But Black Mage can use that spell also. So all it really has going for it is virus. But Scholar does the same. So that means all Summoner brings to the table is a third battle res.

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

People keep bringing up Res. Even though I said BESIDES a res.

And they also say and E4E. But Black Mage can use that spell also. So all it really has going for it is virus. But Scholar does the same. So that means all Summoner brings to the table is a third battle res.

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Well then only two dps classes actually bring benefit to the party, Bard for mp/tp songs and Nin for tp. DPS classes are damage dealers first and foremost, everything is secondary. SMN can focus of several different targets at once. This is highlighted when you to fight two different boss at once but have to keep them far enough away that AoE can't hit both. Where as a BLM can only focus on the primary, a SMN can DoT both and use fester / ruin on primary while secondary is still getting damage over time and pet if you want. Stone Vigil HM is a good example because I keep DoTs up on both bosses.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Well then only two dps classes actually bring benefit to the party, Bard for mp/tp songs and Nin for tp. DPS classes are damage dealers first and foremost, everything is secondary. SMN can focus of several different targets at once. This is highlighted when you to fight two different boss at once but have to keep them far enough away that AoE can't hit both. Where as a BLM can only focus on the primary, a SMN can DoT both and use fester / ruin on primary while secondary is still getting damage over time and pet if you want. Stone Vigil HM is a good example because I keep DoTs up on both bosses.

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But said DPS is usually said to be sub-par. (From this forum and other places) While its nice that Summoner can do that, the damage doesnt seem like something you would write home about. And many have said that Summoner DPS is barely above that of a Bard.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

Oh look, another Monk that acts as if it was so hard for Monks back in the day. Even before the buff, I knew people who were top tier. Monks have been top tier for more than 10 months now? I really don't know what your rant is all about. Monk is such an easy class to play as well. Or at least a lot easier as people make it seem. Monks and GS wasn't buff enough? Monks arguably got the biggest buff out of all the classes, so stop pointing fingers, mate.

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Monks got little dps buff from 2.0 others are just what makes monk a monk. DRG are the ones that got the biggest buff of all classes. Monks are easy? hmm alot people say that until they put a dps meter on themselves. I can say that it's easy in stand still fights but when the boss moves or there are times when u can't attack even 0.01 sec matters for your GL. Yes you heard me. 0.01sec. I experienced it in t9 with 2.05 gcd i could keep my Gl but when i chged to a better ring with lesser SS my GCD became 2.06 I lost 27% DMG 15% attack speed with 3 stacks gone. When monks loses their GL Idc what u say. It's the biggest dps lost any DPS class can suffer. Tho arguing who is easier who is harder is useless coz i play SMN as casual and monk in end game raids i natrually find SMN easy but i myself noticed that SMN DO have Mp prob. But their Dmg is good in long run. I've seen SMN pulling BIG BIG dps numbers.

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

But said DPS is usually said to be sub-par. (From this forum and other places) While its nice that Summoner can do that, the damage doesnt seem like something you would write home about. And many have said that Summoner DPS is barely above that of a Bard.

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And before 2.4 came out many said SMN was one of the top DPS.... The fact is people want to be the end all beat all dps and this game really doesn't have that. You ask what a smn brings and I answer but let me ask this, what does a monk bring over a dragoon? What does a bard bring over a ninja? How about a white mage over scholar or paladin over warrior? That question is really subjective.

I'm not on FCoB and if people that are say they have mp issues then I believe them. I'm also underwhelmed with 2.4 gear choices which really didn't benefit SMN this time around. But also remember for SMN to actually have good dps data on parser the mobs have to have some longevity to them, aka not trash mobs. This is where BLM > SMN because they have fast burst damage and don't require a buildup like SMN. Burst damage has always been our Achilles Heel.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

@ Judge zero, that doesn't even make sense. It needs an adjustment but not right now, is what you're saying. Basically, if it's up to you, we have to wait until the discrepancy in DPS increases and then we can finally give Summoners a buff. Sufficient DPS is just such a stupid argument. They are being left out, not welcomed in end raiding content because they do not bring the numbers. People don't look at sufficient, people look at maximization.

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No, it means it needs and adjustment now.
But @i115 the difference between SMN and BLM (it's competition for a party slot) is only about 25 DPS. So there is no reason to not include SMN at current endgame.

The discrepancy is not yet high enough at that iLvl to not take a great SMN over an ok BLM.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

No, it means it needs and adjustment now.
But @i115 the difference between SMN and BLM (it's competition for a party slot) is only about 25 DPS. So there is no reason to not include SMN at current endgame.

The discrepancy is not yet high enough at that iLvl to not take a great SMN over an ok BLM.

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That is the problem a shitty Black Mage will always get a spot in FCOB over a Summoner no matter how skilled they are unless the Summoner knows the fight perfectly and plays perfectly when compared to the Black Mage

Let me start off by saying that I agree that Summoner needs some love. I don't know what that love is but I think they do need some love.

I think it's going to be nearly impossible to have these classes all turn out "balanced" in terms of what everyone is talking about. There needs to be a max DPS class and if there is a maximum then there's going to be a minimum. How do you balance a class around what the tip top of raid groups are doing? Are we really going to balance every single job around what each group would do during server/world first material? That would be rough.

It's just really hard for me to see changes being made in a such a way that it doesn't completely upset the balance that is there. SMN's do need love but how do you fix that so they are on equal level of BLM? If you give them too much of a buff then all of a sudden BLM's are the ones getting left out. Then we're back to the issue of BLM's getting left out. It's a slippery slope.

I think that might be why they haven't said much on the matter as far as I know. It's only becoming more apparent as the encounters difficulty has increased and gear has increased. These margins that were so small before are now becoming a lot bigger.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

That is the problem a shitty Black Mage will always get a spot in FCOB over a Summoner no matter how skilled they are unless the Summoner knows the fight perfectly and plays perfectly when compared to the Black Mage

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I don't know about shitty. I've seen some pretty shitty BLM's and there's no way they are getting raid spots over someone who actually does things correctly on their SMN. I mean I've seen BLM's run up to an AOE trash pull and open with a Flare, Transpose, and then Flare again. Then go to do single target and cast a couple of random spells, put up Bliz 3 and then Fire 3, Fire 1, Blizzard 1, Fire 1, etc. There is absolutely zero chance of them getting a slot over a Summoner who puts up dots and manages them accordingly. No way.