Carraway's Guide to the New Archer: 1.18 and Beyond

oh, and wow on that multishot! Holly cow.

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Originally Posted by Richardd

Verdant Shortbow vs. Crab Bow +3 Preliminary Testing

At the games current state with stats being off and with the small amount of testing done on the subject we've come to a solid conclusion that Verdant Shortbow and CB3 are as close to a wash as you can get in terms of DPS. The CB3 will always hit for hit be stronger than the Verdant but that doesn't necessarily make it better/the best.

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Well, it looks like CB+3 already has an edge on Verdant, even before you introduce timed cooldowns such as Multishot. I imagine that the gap will become wider if they are incorporated.

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Originally Posted by Richardd

Verdant Shortbow vs. Crab Bow +3 Preliminary Testing

At the games current state with stats being off and with the small amount of testing done on the subject we've come to a solid conclusion that Verdant Shortbow and CB3 are as close to a wash as you can get in terms of DPS. The CB3 will always hit for hit be stronger than the Verdant but that doesn't necessarily make it better/the best.

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Hmm, something isn't right here

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Preliminary raw tests done today: Lv.58 Grass Raptors from Boulder Downs Coerthas. Testing Crab Bow +3 vs. Verdant Shortbow with x5 fights each lasting 90 seconds. Base DEX/STR for this raw testing because stats are never going to be an accurate way to test until they fix them in 1.19. Evades and Auto Attack are filtered out of the chatlog data.

Verdant Shortbow Test
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Total Shots = 135
Total Damage = 16,168
Critical Rate = 11.42%
Miss Rate = 24.44%
136 Attack, 200 Accuracy, 26 STR, 26 DEX


Crab Bow +3 Test
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Total Shots = 105
Total Damage = 16,492
Critical Rate = 5.71%
Miss Rate = 15.23%
155 Attack, 208 Accuracy, 26 STR, 23 DEX

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Let me point out the problem with this parse.
The first is the number of arrows from each weapon to damage total.
Verdant Bow average damage 120 per shot
Crab Bow +3 average damage 157 per shot
First, the average damage of the Verdant bow is about 4/5 of that of the crab bow.
Now if we look at the delay of the bows.
The Verdant Bow is 7/8 the delay.

So over the exact same period of time for each weapon.
Over the course of 1 hour, firing at maximum speed for each.
CB+3 900 shots, total average damage 141,300
VB 1028 shots, total average damage 123,360 (only 87% of the Crab Bow's damage)

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Originally Posted by Akuun

Hmm, something isn't right here


Let me point out the problem with this parse.
The first is the number of arrows from each weapon to damage total.
Verdant Bow average damage 120 per shot
Crab Bow +3 average damage 157 per shot
First, the average damage of the Verdant bow is about 4/5 of that of the crab bow.
Now if we look at the delay of the bows.
The Verdant Bow is 7/8 the delay.

So over the exact same period of time for each weapon.
Over the course of 1 hour, firing at maximum speed for each.
CB+3 900 shots, total average damage 141,300
VB 1028 shots, total average damage 123,360 (only 87% of the Crab Bow's damage)

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There's nothing wrong with the parse, all the information is pulled directly from XIV Log Parser when the testing was done. The only thing that was left out were the number of evades calculated into the total number of shots in 90 second periods. As I said before the sample size, while small is still a preliminary indication of why CB3 is 'as close to as wash as it comes' with Verdant. It is MARGINALLY better over a longer duration of time.

And don't think I'm white knighting for Verdant either. I main CB3 over Verdant because I do believe it's marginally better. Do I think its dps vs. Verdant is worth 15M? Nope.

I'd stake that even the CB+2 is better than the VB, at least for now while TP gain is still based off of damage.
But as I'm sure everyone here already knows, I'm a strong believer in multi shots power. ^^

What he said. (my numbers were off due to not parsing the data myself)
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V

The Crab Bow +2 is way too close to Verdant in damage per shot. The Verdant should be firing at least 1 more Light Shot per minute in a worst-case scenario, which means more TP gain overall, and more damage.

I think that using BRs would push Crab Bow +3 ahead by a not-insignificant margin, but other than that, they are very close in real-world situations.

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Originally Posted by Richardd

There's nothing wrong with the parse, all the information is pulled directly from XIV Log Parser when the testing was done. The only thing that was left out were the number of evades calculated into the total number of shots in 90 second periods.

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Yes, the totals above the parses are incorrectly calculated

Ignoring misses, evades and crits. (average damage, misses and crits are too random)
VB avg 206.7 per shot 59dps
CB+3 avg 233.4 per shot 58dps

So purely on shooting from the small example, the 2 bows are 1dps difference, and in favor of the verdant

At these dps numbers I'd be curious as to the TP gain, if any significant amount is gained solely from adding an extra shot but doing the same total damage. If yes, then verdant may actually be the better bow, if not then I would say the crab bow would when out on weapon skill damage.
Though it would also be interesting to see a parse of 4 archers light shotting the ogre to death, 2 with cb+3 and 2 with vb.

I wish the verdant hora had a shorter delay too QQ, Jade hora ftw

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Originally Posted by Akuun

Ignoring misses, evades and crits.

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That seems like a bad practice.

If you want an accurate comparison of the weapons we need more tests and not simply exclude bits of data.

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Originally Posted by hotah

That seems like a bad practice.

If you want an accurate comparison of the weapons we need more tests and not simply exclude bits of data.

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Randomized data such as that can be excluded. Evades, misses and crits can swing both ways between the two weapons.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Randomized data such as that can be excluded. Evades, misses and crits can swing both ways between the two weapons.

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Agreed. If your goal is to simple answer "what is the difference in non-crit light shot damage between CB+3 and Verdant", then the parse results are ample. This does not necessarily show which bow is actually "better" though. You're basically comparing 2 bows they everyone admits should have very close performance, so things like the accuracy and the critical hit rate will likely be important factors in judging which is better. It also excludes WS damage.

Ultimately this may come down to ARC play-style I think. If you go the no-BR spam method, then Verdant has a higher probability of coming out on top; but if you do a BR route similar to Akuun's there is a higher probability CB+3 will be superior.

The "gold standard" for seeing which is better is rather tedious. It requires either 2 ARC equally geared outside of the bow, with as close play-styles as possible, to repeatedly run the same "target" for a large sample size. Alternative you could have 1 player with both bows run by himself for a large sample size on both bows individually. Given the massive stat change overhauls coming soon, I think doing either of these is pretty unappealing, though it would be interesting if someone actually did it.