A plea for 3.0 and beyond: Job Customization

ARR has hard dps checks if you are not min maxing to meet these dps checks you wipe. So there is really only 1 way to do it and that is with what gives you the most dps. When you have a bunch of options people will figure out the optimal spec and anyone who doesn't use it will be sub optimal and most likley be kicked out of groups.

With a lot of choices there is only the illusion of choice. You have many ways to do it wrong but only 1 way to do it right.

I see "Choice is an illusion" as the weakest argument here along with "It would be hard to do" when we have the some of the most talented devs in the world working on this game.

The only time choice would truly be seen as an illusion would be for the players taking on the hardest content in the game (coils/extremes) and need that best build to progress. My suggestion would change little for them as they would play the best build as they are told, however the rest of us can make our own decisions and enjoy unique playstyles.

Typically a decent player wouldn't feel compelled to kick someone until it is obvious they are failing. At that point one would consider another setup. Don't want to get kicked from PUGs? Make some friends who share similar playstyle interests.

You would end up with the "best" abilities for X job. Not to mention one has to level almost everything to be viable. This is demotivating for starters.

What I do agree with is this 1.0 remnant class system. When they remove that, they will have much bigger options to create jobs way more interesting to play. I recon DRK will be refreshing since it will have no base class. Let's hope they do the same for the current ones too.

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Originally Posted by M0xie

I've been saying this since I hit 50. I really miss AA. I think too much cross-classing of abilities is a bad idea, but the option to improve things like extending your dot a few seconds or up your heals by 1% etc. are nice touches. EQ's AA (for those that don't know) also allowed improvement of innate attributes such as STR, INT and others that aren't so clearly defined such as durability (increased defense) or improved evasion/dodge. Other AA abilities I'd like to have are things like Target/Mass Group Buff or amazing 24-hour recast (job-specific) actions.

The best part is that generally speaking, they were optional and didn't necessarily make players hugely "OP" over others; but once invested, they could make a difference. I left EQ in 2008 with 2500 AA, was still not maxed, and wanted more.

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Wasn't AA basically the Merit System in FFXI (well, the other way around)? Character progression after hitting level cap?

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Originally Posted by LandricFrey

I see "Choice is an illusion" as the weakest argument here along with "It would be hard to do" when we have the some of the most talented devs in the world working on this game.

The only time choice would truly be seen as an illusion would be for the players taking on the hardest content in the game (coils/extremes) and need that best build to progress. My suggestion would change little for them as they would play the best build as they are told, however the rest of us can make our own decisions and enjoy unique playstyles.

Typically a decent player wouldn't feel compelled to kick someone until it is obvious they are failing. At that point one would consider another setup. Don't want to get kicked from PUGs? Make some friends who share similar playstyle interests.

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Yeah, this basically. Or "it's hard to balance". Well yeah it's hard, but that's the dev's job to figure it out. If something being "hard to balance" was an excuse, then we'd only have one class that had 1 attack move, 1 healing move, and 1 tanking move. I bet a game like Dota 2 would be soooooooo fun if the dev's said screw it, this is too hard to balance :(.

I've come the to the realization that no matter how many skills you are given people still won't be able to dodge mechanics or fully execute DPS rotations properly. While I can't go the "Illusion of Choice" route I can go with "Over Saturation". This means skills will still be diluted down to the best choices anyways wasting the developer's time and energy.

The only thing that changes is what skills players die with on their hotbars because they will still wipe on the same things. Final Fantasy is based on the diversity of jobs not the over complexity of them.

Instead of focusing on a cross class system they should focus on adding more jobs to give players a broader spectrum of play styles.

No, because even when you have the ability to customize what you have for the sake of being unique, there will always be the best setup. It's the same like having several talent trees, and then picking what is arguably the best talents possible for your role/job. Either way, everyone is still going to be the same to be effective. So it is fine as is.

I wouldn't mind job merits and merits..

SE should add polarity between the Classes and Jobs by treating Jobs like a separate specialized tree like how WoW has 3-4 specializations for every class which makes their play style radically different from each other with radically different mechanics. This way the each customization is viable.

Ultimately, a question like this boils down to how much you value balance. SE can theoretically offer customization (though none of the FF titles have featured much of it; in many ways, they shouldn't even properly be called RPGs), but doing so will guarantee that a degree of balance is sacrificed.

Personally, I'd rather see the customization. FFXIV is balanced almost to a fault - and the benefits don't outweigh the costs, in my opinion. I'd like to see skill trees, ideally, but I doubt both SE's motivation and ability to actually implement such a large change successfully. More realistically, I think a more carefully developed Merit system would be a fine addition to the title. I'm also surprised they haven't capitalized on Materia more; certainly a Magian-style system for collections of Materia that can be infused (and removed) in any gear could go a long way. For instance, for a Healer-style job, you could have Materia branches that focus on Spell Speed, add a small AoE effect onto single-target spells, improve MP maintenance, maybe add a small Stoneskin effect to cures (like Afflatus Solace in FFXI). These branches could be leveled via a Magian-like grind, and maybe inserted into, say, a body piece. The trick of this would be making sure that the paths offer meaningful, useful changes to how a job plays, without any one path being a clear-cut winner. Of course, another important piece here is, players would have to be limited to at most one of these types of Materia per job.

As an aside, while I admittedly haven't read the entire thread, I think the idea of simply opening up existing abilities would be a huge mistake. There are two large weaknesses here.

Firstly, far from adding customization, such a system would undoubtedly lead to more "required abilities" for people to be accepted in groups. I suspect there would quickly be a list of "best" abilities hashed out, which 90+% of people use, thereby eliminating the feel of customization. It would also cause more balance issues than it's worth. Customization options should most likely focus on allowing a player to shape how they play a predefined role, rather than allowing the role itself to dramatically change. For instance, DD should be able to customize how they deal damage, but they shouldn't be able to transform themselves into half-arsed healers or tanks (as an example).

Secondly, such a change would have an uneven impact in terms of how much time investment was required by a player. Individuals with everything at level 50 could take advantage of loosened restrictions the second they log on, whereas new players starting would have an (increasingly large) amount of leveling to do before they began to realize the full effects. I don't think that fits very well with the spirit of FFXIV.

Just my two gil, anyway.

Sorry, but no. Sure, get rid of the classes but things won't be "custom" because there's going to be a "Best Build" and if you don't have it, you won't be wanted. It's that simple. If there was a great deal of customization to classes, it would throw them off balance. It's just how it goes, it can't be done while also keeping balance.

Also, a big difference between two players isn't gear, it's how well they play. Well geared doesn't mean well played.