Be brave

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Originally Posted by Neptune

It just occurred to me that you have a lot of people frustrated over the lack of these features in the game right now:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f018ec5fb504d2

And the dev team is redoing battle and Armoury based on checking with what the players wanted. So, they wanted to check with the players to see what they wanted, and then spent all their time designing something for the people who didn't respond to the poll. They wanted to respond to the players, but they didn't have the heart to follow through with it. They're still having trouble relating to players, and I don't know why.

I think they should just make the game in response to the feedback they got and the beta feedback and stop paying attention to where the community is at right now.

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Gee. Let me guess where that link goes. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Gee. Let me guess where that link goes. LOL.

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My favorite thing about that post is that people often say Tanaka was not upfront but if you compare the end of 2010 list to what we actually got, he was almost 99% on target so there's no reason to think he was fabricating the truth about early 2011... other than to make Yoshida look bad. That would be an elaborate setup, though.

Though if those things were ready in January (give or take) it stands to reason they are still ready - once adapted to whatever these huge changes Yoshida is making. I'd like to see those things implement SOON.

lol yep. you are the father of that link. haha.

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Originally Posted by Shai

They probably aren't very pleased with the types of feedback they have gotten, particularly from North Americans. I'm not sure why everything SE does is met with such hostility rather than objective criticism. That's just how I see it. Look around the forums for more evidence. There is some great feedback out there, but you have to weed through the jerky retorts, the bad attitudes, the /ragequits, the threats, the insults.

Don't remember the "remove fatigue or I'm not buying your game?" campaign. Fatigue isn't even that bad, or a significant problem with the game.

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I think people get so hostile toward SE because SE used to be one of the most revered game developers and people cared about them a lot. FFXI a lot of people really liked but I think a lot of people, myself included, only half liked. We were expecting SE to get with the program this time around and they are still having a hard time managing their business challenges and player relationships. People don't like to feel mistreated and I think that's where the hostility comes from. I really think SE can get rid of that hostility, because hostile players are only hostile because of how much they care deep down.

Critics being at odds with the consumer is nothing new.

Critics may have liked the system, but SE polled the playerbase (then still somewhat close to it's top population) and a good chunk of the playerbase said the battle system needed work. Therefore they worked on it.

It's those players who left that SE needs to entice back, not the critics. The only thing SE needs to do for the critics is give them a reason to praise the game.

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Originally Posted by Chezen

Critics being at odds with the consumer is nothing new.

Critics may have liked the system, but SE polled the playerbase (then still somewhat close to it's top population) and a good chunk of the playerbase said the battle system needed work. Therefore they worked on it.

It's those players who left that SE needs to entice back, not the critics. The only thing SE needs to do for the critics is give them a reason to praise the game.

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Critics are players too. Happy player, happy critic. Those criticisms I posted are like a litmus test for player's likes, since players read those reviews and didn't buy the game, or quit if they did.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Is it too late? Yoshi-P has invested most of 2011 in a way that completely bypasses the concerns of the FFXIV launch reviewers. I think the work will bear fruit. However, what may remain after 2011 may be a mediocre game devoid of the brilliance that glimmered ever so slightly in the eyes of the above reviewers.

I don't think it's too late to grasp Tanaka's brave vision for FFXIV.

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This was posted in May before you got to see some of the changes in the works. However, I think that Yoshida has done a better job than you initially feared. Many of the changes in the works are breaking down previous obstacles that critics found annoying (no more fatigue, allowing for more leves to build up, most ledges no longer block travel, etc.). The UI has been improving, and is still getting better. They have been adopting certain "standards" that MMO players will find familiar, and I think that's good for bringing new players, especially.

But there's still a ways to go. I think ultimately they need to address that "laggy feeling" you get with positioning characters and executing combat abilities. And there's a need to create a more efficient and sensible means of buying and selling that the Market Wards haven't been able to accommodate up until now.

As for Tanaka, I have respect for the man. He's overseen many great games. He was a part of the team that created the first Final Fantasy. And Chrono Cross is certainly one of my all time favorites. However, he was sadly out-of-touch with the expectations present-day players have for new MMOs in terms of ease-of-use and completeness which is really what cost him in FFXIV's release.

I wonder what they'd say about the armory system they loved being abolished...

*To those harping on Tanaka, you know he was the one in charge of FFXI that we XI vets love so much right?*

Producer(s)
Hiromichi Tanaka
Yasu Kurosawa (2011)

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

This was posted in May before you got to see some of the changes in the works. However, I think that Yoshida has done a better job than you initially feared. Many of the changes in the works are breaking down previous obstacles that critics found annoying (no more fatigue, allowing for more leves to build up, most ledges no longer block travel, etc.). The UI has been improving, and is still getting better. They have been adopting certain "standards" that MMO players will find familiar, and I think that's good for bringing new players, especially.

But there's still a ways to go. I think ultimately they need to address that "laggy feeling" you get with positioning characters and executing combat abilities. And there's a need to create a more efficient and sensible means of buying and selling that the Market Wards haven't been able to accommodate up until now.

As for Tanaka, I have respect for the man. He's overseen many great games. He was a part of the team that created the first Final Fantasy. And Chrono Cross is certainly one of my all time favorites. However, he was sadly out-of-touch with the expectations present-day players have for new MMOs in terms of ease-of-use and completeness which is really what cost him in FFXIV's release.

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The armoury system was praised by almost all of the reviews that were on the "pros" list of the game and the reviewers were happy to make a unique character and not being like everyone else, but that's being broken down... am I missing something here?

I'm gonna take a jab at some of the more stupid 'cons' these reviews gave the game:

-confusing account management - I wouldn't know, since it only took me about 2 minutes to sign up and I don't see much point messing around with it if it works, y'know?

-game soundtrack on endless repeat - and a damned fine soundtrack it is too, oh btw, aren't most/all mmo's soundtracks on endless repeat? BTW there is an audio menu to turn it off, just so you know

-Every aspect of the game is filled with dumb obstacles. - well wouldn't be much of an adventure if it was a walk in the park on a beautifull sunny day would it?

-No PVP - It's final fantasy, duuuh.

-Long load times - I've had no problems so far and my computers not that good, so yours must have SUCKED!

-Game tries to keep you away from playing it - y'wot? How? Does it threaten to come round your house and beat you up if you log on?

There's my snippets anyways :D

@konachibi

Instead of looking at some of the more fringe criticisms as being off-base, consider that the concerns raised represent the interests and expectations of players unfamiliar with Final Fantasy. It may have taken me 20 seconds to establish my account, but I have a friend that actually hit a brick wall during account creation and had to wait for me to get on the phone to help him out. Even though these criticisms may not seem valid to me and you, they are still valid for some. And if the developer wants this game to have wide appeal and accessibility, any concerns should be resolved. Especially when they are all so simple. Even with beautiful music it shouldn't be on all the time. It should fade in and out.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

This was posted in May before you got to see some of the changes in the works. However, I think that Yoshida has done a better job than you initially feared.

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Actually my opinion hasn't really changed through the summer. I think Darkhold is great, but I don't think it was worth throwing the entire year into. I'd rather there be no awesome dungeon and all of these little concerns addressed. Instead they want to try to do what they personally want to do, while the main problems persist into 2012.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

As for Tanaka, I have respect for the man. He's overseen many great games. He was a part of the team that created the first Final Fantasy. And Chrono Cross is certainly one of my all time favorites. However, he was sadly out-of-touch with the expectations present-day players have for new MMOs in terms of ease-of-use and completeness which is really what cost him in FFXIV's release.

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I am playing Chrono Cross right now along with Xenoblade, and I have to say Chrono Cross is pretty amazing. It wasn't well appreciated in its day but compared to what's out now it's an incredible RPG, with some of the best music in a game ever.

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Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

I wonder what they'd say about the armory system they loved being abolished...

*To those harping on Tanaka, you know he was the one in charge of FFXI that we XI vets love so much right?*

Producer(s)
Hiromichi Tanaka
Yasu Kurosawa (2011)

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I do wonder if some of these people with Tanaka rage (of course I am a member of that group) were XI lovers. I am an XI vet and I both love and hate Tanaka, but I can see the good and the bad.

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Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

The armoury system wasn't annoying and yet that was praised... am I missing something here?

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Could you reword that?