Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

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Originally Posted by Atreides

The biggest issue here actually lies in the absolutely flawed mentor system, it allows player who have absolutely no idea what they are doing outside of running dungeons all day to "teach" others their ways while having no actual mastery of their jobs.
SE needs to rework the system the commendation system we currently have only enables solo players that run dungeons with randoms all day to become mentors which breeds the worst possible mentors.

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Mentor system has little to nothing to do with this because it's more like a "I have invested so much time to this game"-badge. Frankly speaking it's more due to how terrible the game is at teaching their player. The game offers an illusion of 'different playstyles' to their players while in reality for every combat classes there's only 1 'correct' way to utilize them (but hey, they are more fun to play when played correctly too!). Anything that deviate from that 'correct rotation' will cripple their performance, by miles.

"B-b-but... we have tooltips! We have quests associated to them too!"
Oh I wish that's the saving grace, but no. Reading is hard :rolleyes: Fail a job quest? No worries! A "Very Easy" mode is now available for them to faceroll!

Fun aside though, really. This thread is entertaining, at least. Seriously...lower the expectation... it's DF and it'll stay this way for quite a long time, I believe

EDIT: But now that I think of it, there are also zero effort players in any MMOs. They exist everywhere. For instance, we had SE literally shoved us the "So this is how you play this class..."-starting class quest to our face for DNC and RDM, but we still see DNC without their dances & partners; and freestyle hardcaster RDMs. Playing 'optimally' is probably low in their priority list and they just want to have fun for few hours in their probably long day at work, etc. I wouldn't excuse them 100% of time, cause that's just plain unfair... but personally, lowering expectation has considerably helped me in the long run.

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

Considering that you think that this "enabling" thing, as you said in your first post, "is infecting every corner of this game", and that you yourself have posted that your "back is breaking trying to carry so many people", then doesn't it follow that the "society" is not this awesome and incredibly proficient group of players that you seem to consider yourself in but actually the throngs of innumerable other people in the FFXIV community that you consider as full of general incompetence and malice?

As such, I actually agree with your choice of proverb, actually. Yes, maybe it's time for you to "get off society's back", as it were. Just utilize tools like PF if playing with the rest of "society" burden you so much that you feel like your back is being broken by it.

But I digress. I would still contend that a vast majority of players do not consider playing with others as a burden on their back, and I am personally thankful that the FFXIV community is by large an accommodating and welcoming place to players of all sorts of skill levels, and not one when players who are not performing godly from time to time are sequestered into some faraway place for fear that they could offend a select few who feel like they're far superior than the general rabble.

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I hate to tell you, but I am better. DF needs players like me to keep the wheels greased and running smoothly. Then again backriders often times don't know they are backriders.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Wow’s community can at least push buttons and isn’t lazy in dungeons it seems. I’d take that over the toxicity that is casual enablement and sensitivity that this community seems to live off of.

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Still better than the elitist WoW community.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I hate to tell you, but I am better. DF needs players like me to keep the wheels greased and running smoothly. Then again backriders often times don't know they are backriders.

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Good for you? It's not like I deny there are players better than others though? It's how one player treats the other player that is the contention here.

But of course, right, right, the whole DF system will crumble without you, of course it will. Careful now, you don't want your back broken being the hero of FFXIV community, whom we all depend on lest we crumble. What would we all do without you.

Kinda feels like this thread is created just to brag, to be honest, hahah.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

Still better than the elitist WoW community.

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LUL WoW is far from elitist plenty of bad players play and enjoy the game. It is just when a bad player tries to do content with the general community they more often then not get called out for it.

One could say in WoW the community expects a degree of competence while in FFXIV it is a surprise.

Think someone has a forum signature like that. Though both communities have their pros and cons reason why I still enjoy both games and communities.

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Originally Posted by Awha

One could say in WoW the community expects a degree of competence while in FFXIV it is a surprise.
Think someone has a forum signature like that.

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It was something like:

"Dead dps do no dps, revived dps do lower dps. Don't stay in bad stuff and do the mechanics

WoW expects basic competence. FFXIV is nicely surprised by it.

Other games have toxic elitism. In FFxiv we have toxic casualism "

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Originally Posted by Awha

LUL WoW is far from elitist plenty of bad players play and enjoy the game. It is just when a bad player tries to do content with the general community they more often then not get called out for it.

One could say in WoW the community expects a degree of competence while in FFXIV it is a surprise.

Think someone has a forum signature like that. Though both communities have their pros and cons reason why I still enjoy both games and communities.

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I absolutely love being called out by people in my party who don't have anything useful to offer, to help me improve. Just: "here's a link, read this guide." Usually when someone does that, I'm doing just fine, I don't know what jumped up their butt, and they come off as an elitist moron stroking their own ego in front of their friends, and I just shrug and come back to FFXIV, where people who call me out actually OFFER ADVICE ON HOW TO IMPROVE. I think that might be the reason I'm better at FFXIV than I am at WoW.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

I absolutely love being called out by people in my party who don't have anything useful to offer, to help me improve. Just: "here's a link, read this guide." Usually when someone does that, I'm doing just fine, I don't know what jumped up their butt, and they come off as an elitist moron stroking their own ego in front of their friends, and I just shrug and come back to FFXIV, where people who call me out actually OFFER ADVICE ON HOW TO IMPROVE. I think that might be the reason I'm better at FFXIV than I am at WoW.

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Wait so elitism to you boils down to people not helping you improve when you could easily just look up the information yourself using the internet?

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Originally Posted by Awha

Wait so elitism to you boils down to people not helping you improve when you could easily just look up the information yourself using the internet?

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It boils down to people making snarky remarks at me, telling me to get better, being so vague that even Freud would struggle to decipher the reason or rhyme why they would say things like, "Lol, ur DPS hurts me. here's a link" (this really happened). I've encountered this so damn much in WoW, to an astounding degree. That happens a lot less in FFXIV. Probably because I got better.

No, I'm not going to take it lightly when some chucklehead in the party decides to make fun of me throughout the instance. I hate that shit.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

It boils down to people making snarky remarks at me, telling me to get better, being so vague that even Freud would struggle to decipher the reason or rhyme why they would say things like, "Lol, ur DPS hurts me. here's a link" (this really happened). I've encountered this so damn much in WoW, to an astounding degree. That happens a lot less in FFXIV. Probably because I got better.

No, I'm not going to take it lightly when some chucklehead in the party decides to make fun of me throughout the instance. I hate that shit.

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I mean that's harassment, so report it. Most "elitist" are simply going to be silently judging you. Few people are dumb enough to snap in game and risk their account. Although I would like to at times with how bad it has gotten.