It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

And as I said, the way it works now is just fine. Your idea is not great and flawed.

Lets take a moment to look at it. Please correct me if I read something wrong in this:

You want a nerfed/unnerfed version of the previous content correct? But you do not want progression to be done through story mode. Why would developers do this? Its more work than needed. The mass majority do not care that previous content has been altered to ease it for some who could not beat it in it's prime. If you really want to add challenge, you have the option of turning the echo buff off and wear gear that was relevant in it's time. Its all already there. You need to realize even when content is not in it's prime anymore, there is still a fine line on having cut scenes handed to you like that or not. It is a messy ordeal your idea and the way SE has it now is simple and works effectively.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

Is not that bad of an idea but that time already pass. You cant base a new idea for patch that already passed. You cant implement that now because it would be a big mess and even confusing.

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Oh at that point I know it's late. I'm not even sure why I keep answering to this thread, as it was relevant then, isn't that much now, but was necro'ed and kept going on until now. Maybe I just don't like to leave things unclear, which seemed to be the case, and I just kept on answering people as they came here to discuss again and again.

I do hope though that SE makes a move when 3.0 lands, even if it means nerfing T5 and T9 to the ground until they're only a shadow of what they were if it's what it takes to allow people to get the end of 1.0. I also hope they won't put important story tied to main scenario in future raids (whether people like it or not, Coil is tied to 2.0 main story, as it explains why we have 2.0 at all).

But that's an other thing, which should not be discussed here.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You want a nerfed/unnerfed version of the previous content correct?

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correct. Or rather, I would have wanted. As it has been said, it's too late either way to do it, and next raid won't have Coil's problem regarding storyline and difficulty setting if devs' words are to be trusted.

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But you do not want progression to be done through story mode.

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Partly true. Progression on relevant content would be locked out of story mode. So progression in prime content would be regular only, progression in story mode could be done if the turn is available. T5 story would unlock T6 story when it comes, then T9 story would unlock T13 story when it comes.

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Why would developers do this? Its more work than needed.

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I never said it was less work. It was an alternative keeping the originals and easing furthermore the story progress for people (T5/T9, I won't say it again). The extra work is a major drawback and I was fully aware of that.

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If you really want to add challenge, you have the option of turning the echo buff off and wear gear that was relevant in it's time. Its all already there.

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No it's not. you can go in T1/T2 without any silence, even without echo or overgearing. T4's enrage is only half of what it was. T6 and T7 aren't even worth mentioning, they're just sad jokes now. removing echo can't bring back what the turns were.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

No it's not. you can go in T1/T2 without any silence, even without echo or overgearing. T4's enrage is only half of what it was. T6 and T7 aren't even worth mentioning, they're just sad jokes now. removing echo can't bring back what the turns were.

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Now bring it to the community perspective. Who would do an unaltered version of that Coil? Most people go back to this content for different reasons, but the thrill of it's challenge is the least one. If people are farming it all day, they will obviously want the version with least resistance. It is just how society works.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Now bring it to the community perspective. Who would do an unaltered version of that Coil? Most people go back to this content for different reasons, but the thrill of it's challenge is the least one. If people are farming it all day, they will obviously want the version with least resistance. It is just how society works.

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It's not how people have been reacting. Lots of people, for me most people I've talked to, bemoan the loss of the old versions.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Now bring it to the community perspective. Who would do an unaltered version of that Coil? Most people go back to this content for different reasons, but the thrill of it's challenge is the least one. If people are farming it all day, they will obviously want the version with least resistance. It is just how society works.

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Not if (again, as I suggested) story mode has no loot. (the story itself is a far sufficient reward). Also, I second Tiggy on that. Everyone I know who has known the "real" SCoB is mad at the nerfs (well, was. They're now on FCoB and don't give a crap about SCoB anymore as they got everything they wanted there). Especially on T7. Petrification has fallen so low there is no real point keeping it except the damage buff on lamias.

Just take out Twisters instant death from T5 the rest are beatable just like any EX primal

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Originally Posted by Waffilicious

Just take out Twisters instant death from T5 the rest are beatable just like any EX primal

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If people can't watch the cast bar and run in a small circle or straight line until the cast is done then they aren't going to have much better luck elsewhere. Seriously though this is a simple mechanic. Run in a straight line. Simpler than some actual Extreme primal mechanics. Why is this so hard for people?

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Again, I don't think the 'story' issue will be quite as big a deal with the 3.0 Expansion Alex. raid and moving on. The problem with the Binding Coil dungeon+it's story is it ties into the 1.0 storyline....which was a casual storyline. So SE basically wraps up the 1.0 storyline (a what 5 year old storyline by now?), which originally was very casual by putting it all in a top-end raid. Sure, the content is 'nerfed' over time....but the people most interested in the story have already waited literally years to see it, and aren't all natural raiders.

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So the fight against Nael at the end of 1.0 was nothing like T9?

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

So the fight against Nael at the end of 1.0 was nothing like T9?

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Which one? The storymode or the hardmode Nael 1.0 battle....oh THAT's right there originally were 2 versions. And again, the big reward was from clearing the hard version (earring/achievement)....and if I recall correctly, there was a sort of 'bonus' CS attached to the hardmode clear, but that bonus CS did little to nothing to change the actual outcome of the overall story as known from the 'storyline' version.

Also, the Nael 1.0 storyline isn't exactly the same as the 2.0...kinda the point, there's a twist+ again, Turn 9 is only one part of the Binding coil story/plot point. There are still several other things happening within this dungeon series that tie up 1.0 events.

And mechanics wise, yes the 1.0 Hardmode version of the Nael battle WAS in fact different than Turn 9. You aren't stationing people on platforms on 'meteor duty'....you aren't relying on crafted key items to survive, AoEs are now actually telegraphed in the game vs. having to guess 'am I in my doughnut'/use 3rd party distance tools to win. (yes, many wins came b/c at least one person on the team was using a 3rd party tool in 1.0).

So not really sure what you're trying to ask/prove. Nor do I get what Nael HM in 1.0 has to do with the price of tea in China....

IF there were storymodes to current raids:
1. Storymodes would likely not be subject to weekly player/team lockouts....meaning people could access them freely/pug them freely with friends. So needing to be in a dedicated group would be less necessary. People keep missing that the forced grouping of current endgame raids actually influence who tries/ignores the content when it's 'fresh' more than the content's actual difficulty.

2. As storymode would NOT drop gear, and would likely only appeal to either those 'more casual' and/or less able to commit to a static, it would not harm or influence the playerbase interested in challenging endgame static content (ie the hardmode versions). I mean, it's not like 'oh I did Shiva storymode, so I have no interest in Shiva EX' is something often said in game....at least not by people who enjoy doing the more challenging content This would offer basically the same opportunity.

3. Nerfing content 'just because it's old and something shinier came out', is poor planning/lessens the lifespan on that content. Furthermore, it lessens the supposed 'specialness' SE wants the gear/clears from that content they supposedly want it to have. If turns 1-9 were never nerfs, but instead, from launch the 'storymode' version was launched alongside them, than anyone walking around with gear drops from those turns would have actually likely done the work/grouping to earn those items. Sure, they'd still no longer be 'BiS'....but still status pieces/special none-the-less.

For example, Nael earrings from 1.0 were trash the moment 2.0 launched (and boy were people pissed about this)....but still, if you have them, it means you are part of an small elite that actually have them...and might consider glamouring them with pride. I still glamour my Titan EX earrings because 1. I beat the battle back when they were decent, and 2. I think they look nice. Titan EX was never nerfed though, so people who have those earrings, actually cleared the battle...sure, SE gave people a 'work around' now to basically allow them to skip both Titan and Iffy EX (which I think is a shame), but beating Titan EX still have a sense of 'I did it' because it wasn't nerfed. Beating T9 now, is sort of a mixed bag....on the one hand, yay I beat it/it's still difficult enough to be a challenge but on the other 'I'll never get to do the pre-nerf version' ...and there are people who'd rather do that....even if a year+ after it initally came out.

So basically, I don't understand why people are against a storymode version being released in tandum with the hardmode version considering that by doing so, it'd make the hardmode victories more special, more intense, and not subject the hardmode to systematic nerfs 'just because something new came out'. Furthermore, it's not smart on SE's part to purposefully shorten the lifespan/challenge of it's endgame content...especially when you consider how little of it there is. Yes, the true top-tier endgame raiders will always be ready to move on/move on to the next tier when it's released....but not everyone is on the same schedule. Not everyone started playing at the same time, and a game that is supposed to be active and running for years, with new players joining daily shouldn't be so quick to minimize 'outdated' content. Turns 1-5 is only truly outdated content to those who've been playing since launch/actually challenging it. But to a brand new player, it's new, fresh and exciting. SE shouldn't be so quick to short-change it.

4. The 'no storymode' side keeps making it sound like storymode=faceroll easy....but then goes on to say 'the current nerf cycle is fine...just wait 6 months and do it then' What storymode would be is THAT version (the nerfed version) of the content. Which ironically, if released at the same time as hardmode, would still be more difficult to do than the situation we currently have. As currently by the time it's actually nerfed, the average ilvl of players attempting it is far higher than it would be if both versions were released at the same time. (higher ilvl typically ='s a little more breathing room) In storymode, you'd likely still wipe easily (it is a raid afterall), and need teamwork, but again if gear didn't drop from it/was mostly glamour fodder etc...then SE wouldn't subject this content to lockouts, so FC's LS's friends and pugs could challenge it on their own time/leisure.

5. Also, SE could learn from Binding Coil and make sure that in the future, endgame Raids and their storylines are nice 'side-stories' that further enhance the world of Eorzea...but don't necessarily contain key plot points that basically everyone playing the game would really like to be in on. IE I don't think anyone's gaming experience would be ruined if they didn't clear the Hildebrand questlines (you DF roulettes are screwed, but not your understanding of the story), nor does not doing the Crystal Tower storyline directly impact your experience in Eorzea. Do these stories enhance it, absolutely...but they don't answer unanswered questions pretaining to 1.0 and the 2.0 storylines quite like Binding Coil does at the moment.


And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter...as a Storymode version of Alexander will be released in tandum with the hardmode. So it's happening. And it won't be the end of the world.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter...as a Storymode version of Alexander will be released in tandum with the hardmode. So it's happening. And it won't be the end of the world.

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The "story mode" will be as difficult as post echo coil. So no it wont be free cutscenes to everyone, no matter how terrible they play. Will still need to learn the fights and put in some effort to win it. Which, as proven, many won't.