Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Nothing I said before had anything to do with reward and if that is what you got from it, you need to re-read it.

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his point was you said dont get a pat on the back for beating your 8 year old daughter, so why should you get a pat on the back for your 50 beating a level 25 dungeon.

your rewards for beating a 3 on 3 basketball tournament are usually less than beating a comparable 5 vs 5, but the guy who can win a 3 on 3 tournament is probably better than your average 5 on 5 non tournament player, and gets more reward for being in the tournament than the guy playing in the park.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I'm sorry. You are kidding yourself on this one. No one gives you credit in WoW for running the Deadmines or whatever the hell it is called. It is a mid-level dungeon and you are going to get mid-level credit for beating it.

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that is because wow is with the no-cap design. Old content is old and no one cares. It's just shallow content upon shallow content. even old raids are just shallow content and doing a level 60 raid on your level 85 char is not even worth the achievement it gives you, no one cares. WoW is also one of the most boring game when it comes to end game content since there is nothing worth doing except the new content in the newest patch, all you got before you can just throw in the bin and not care. They did something right with heroics and special drops from them, but it's still shallow and limited since it gets outdated when the max level is raised. One easy exemple is Karazhan, that raid was really fun in TBC expansion, like a lot of fun. Now every new player that comes either doesn't know where this raid is or never went in at the proper level nor should they bother because what you get from is it tossable the next level.


Thats is what we are trying so hard to avoid here. We don't want SE to just throw shallow content upon shallow content at us. We want it so every content is a challenge to everyone at any point during the game.

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Originally Posted by Physic

his point was you said dont get a pat on the back for beating your 8 year old daughter, so why should you get a pat on the back for your 50 beating a level 25 dungeon.

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That was an example of the 'credit' I would get for beating an 8 year old. The only 'reward' you get for a 1-on-1 basketball game is winning, and yes, I got the same 'reward' as my 8 year old daughter would have but she would have impressed her friends more than I impressed mine.

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Originally Posted by Physic

your rewards for beating a 3 on 3 basketball tournament are usually less than beating a comparable 5 vs 5, but the guy who can win a 3 on 3 tournament is probably better than your average 5 on 5 non tournament player, and gets more reward for being in the tournament than the guy playing in the park.

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Oh well, gee, that explains why the new American Basketball 3 on 3 league has gotten so much more popular than the NBA and their 10 on 10 format, right?

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

that is because wow is with the no-cap design. Old content is old and no one cares. It's just shallow content upon shallow content. even old raids are just shallow content and doing a level 60 raid on your level 85 char is not even worth the achievement it gives you, no one cares. WoW is also one of the most boring game when it comes to end game content since there is nothing worth doing except the new content in the newest patch, all you got before you can just throw in the bin and not care. They did something right with heroics and special drops from them, but it's still shallow and limited since it gets outdated when the max level is raised. One easy exemple is Karazhan, that raid was really fun in TBC expansion, like a lot of fun. Now every new player that comes either doesn't know where this raid is or never went in at the proper level nor should they bother because what you get from is it tossable the next level.


Thats is what we are trying so hard to avoid here. We don't want SE to just throw shallow content upon shallow content at us. We want it so every content is a challenge to everyone at any point during the game.

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Name one piece of Mid-Level content in FFXI that was viewed as just as big an accomplishment as FFXI endgame.

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Originally Posted by Physic

his point was you said dont get a pat on the back for beating your 8 year old daughter, so why should you get a pat on the back for your 50 beating a level 25 dungeon.

your rewards for beating a 3 on 3 basketball tournament are usually less than beating a comparable 5 vs 5, but the guy who can win a 3 on 3 tournament is probably better than your average 5 on 5 non tournament player, and gets more reward for being in the tournament than the guy playing in the park.

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What Durti is saying is you are also not going to get a pat on the back for beating a rank 25 dungeon at rank 25, no one cares.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Name one piece of Mid-Level content in FFXI that was viewed as just as big an accomplishment as FFXI endgame.

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Specifically? there were alot, before the level cap was raised to 90 Kraken club a weapon obtained from a lv 60 bcnm was about the most expensive item for many years so much so that some players made themselves with it. Simply because it had a very high number of attack rounds and very very very low drop rate, the boss wasnt a push over either.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Name one piece of Mid-Level content in FFXI that was viewed as just as big an accomplishment as FFXI endgame.

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Well we can't compare the 2 points for points. But the CoP rings were a reward considered an accomplishement at end game. Yes ok you get it at the end of the chain, but you are capped all the way to it. That content even if it was in CoP, was still good and relevant to get when they released ToAU and then WoTG. A lot of items from BCNMs were also good at end game.

In games like WoW, tell me who gives a shit about someone getting their T1 to T8 armors. They only reason to go back to some dungeons/raids in that game is for novelty items like mounts and pets. Which they are not an accomplishment to get anymore because it's easy to get.

Anyways, I don't want to turn this into a "let's compate games" thread, but you cannot say that FFXI had a very nice horizontal character development since it stayed at level 75 for such a long time and every expansion, while bringing new end game gears did not make older gears that much less good, just different.

I am also out of new arguments and think everything has been said and that the devs will be aware of this thread and I don't think there is much need to argue anymore.

I'll stress the fact that no cap on those (and upcoming) dungeons just make them shallow and nothing can be built on it. If that is their intent, then I don't care for the to stay uncapped if they are not rewarding any type of lasting gears/fame/rep/items/currency.

That said, if they are just shallow content for SP, not rewarding any type of lasting gears/fame/rep/items/currency, I really hope for them to make more content that have some depths to them and that things like story missions and fights are capped and must be completed under cap in order to progress.

So both type of content can be viable, as long as one does not set a predecedent and norm for any upcoming content.

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

Specifically? there were alot, before the level cap was raised to 90 Kraken club a weapon obtained from a lv 60 bcnm was about the most expensive item for many years so much so that some players made themselves with it. Simply because it had a very high number of attack rounds and very very very low drop rate, the boss wasnt a push over either.

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I wouldn't classify rank 60 content as mid-level content for what was a rank 75 max level. Even so, it seemed that the rarity of the kraken club is what made it so big, not necessarily the challenge of the BCNM. Would that be accurate?

Give up already. He doesn't want to understand.
He is not motivated to understand.
He wants something very specific, and that something (think, people, think!) requires uncapped dungeons.
Why should he accept that his arguments are basically invalid?

But to answer your question (because I do, even if you still didn't answer mine):
Even so, it seemed that the rarity of the kraken club is what made it so big, not necessarily the challenge of the BCNM. Would that be accurate? -> Yes. Nobody said everything in FFXI was perfect. Does that mean we have to repeat the same mistakes in 14?

Oh, and by the way, I have a question:
You seem to agree that doing a LV 30 dungeon with the help of a LV 50 character should not be rewarded in any way. Or is there another way to interpret your statement? O.o/?

Whatever you say buddy! I never said anything like that, but you can keep reaching if you want!