Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

Are there any spreadsheets or explanations about the dh>det>crit? Last time I played, the debate was not decided on dh and crit, but it was known that det was last. What changed?
*edit*
Went through the thread and it looks like its been this way for a while... Sorry about that. Thx!

Ok, how about this:
I've been trying to figure out openers for 9+ trash and can't find anything stable... I come up with an AF start then the UI is so short that I'm screwed... This is mainly because LL makes the UI into F3 part go too quick... Any ideas for a stable opener involving LL? 9+ rot I'm using is: f3 f2 f2 flare trans t4 f3 ect...

So far I came up with: pre sharp, pre f1, eno, f3p, pot, f2, f2, f2, ??? should I triple into triple flare? should i f2 and convert f2 flare? should i do a b4 opener to get more extra f2? Idk...

for it boils down to if i want to see big numbers (wait til tank grabs all mob then start my b3 rot) or just want dmg to start ticking while tank is still pulling for the chioces of me t4 the first few mobs before the string of tank's big pull. then try to get a bliz3 in while we running ao that i can start my enochian timer ticking for foul otw.
but anyway, you will always want to get b3>enochian>t4>b4 first because of umbral hearts. without any umbral hearts, your flare will consume all your mp which making you cant double/triple flare without convert/ether.
im a cheapsk8 so i dont really use my ether unless i f up my rotation with 0mp left during boss fight.
in short: b3>enochian>t4>b4>f3>triplecast> (option A): f2>f2>flare>flare>convert>flare>transpose...
(option b, skipping 2xf2) flare>flare> convert>flare>trans>

now its down to choice if you want to (option A)2xf2 first to spend the first 2 umbral hearts or straight up triple/double flare if no convert.
for me in that situation i tend to 2xf2 if theres no other blm/smn/or sometime whm. reason is, if theres another aoe nuker, youre playing a game of who is depleting the hp of the mob faster/more because if youre slow, ie by the time you can triple flare after 2xf2, the mobs hp might be down to half. this means not all your flare dmg will count toward dps but as a overkill dps. same fall for if you have a foul saved up but no mob hp remaining to fully count as a dps
so if there is another aoe nuker i would with option B to play the game of tug o war for who depleting the enemy hp quicker lol

now if you have foul in the bank, i will usually use it after transpose but if the next foul is about to overwrite your saved foul, il say just use it during af since if you dont its a dps lost of a unused foul.
also sometime this may happen before the tank fully finish his big pull, then i would tend to use diversion and swiftcast a foul while we still running for the next set of mobs in the big pull string.

when is t4 best usefull, 2 or 3 mobs (or more)??

or only with sharpcast worth on 2??

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

when is t4 best usefull, 2 or 3 mobs (or more)??

or only with sharpcast worth on 2??

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nm, was just lazy

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

nm, was just lazy

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So, what was the verdict?

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Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

So, what was the verdict?

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seems like its always worth t4 on 2 adds, even if they proc less on 2 than t3 on a single one

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

seems like its always worth t4 on 2 adds, even if they proc less on 2 than t3 on a single one

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assuming they can fully tick (or proc)

if 2 adds, you might as well just sharp t3 and tc the 2nd. then just single target f4 rotation 1 of the add.

might as well sharpcast t4, will di more damage..., but with 2×t3 up, youll proc very likely more (and costs less mp)

just potency alone, t4 would be a bit highet

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Originally Posted by Komaru_Tatoro

if 2 adds, you might as well just sharp t3 and tc the 2nd. then just single target f4 rotation 1 of the add.

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Only do that rotation if you don't care about max dps. I'm always trying to do the highest dps possible at any moment, so I go straight to the AOE for 2 trash. Its just t4 b4 f3 f4 f4 flare flare trans. The reason its better is because the 2 flares give you roughly 4xf4 worth of damage, but in less time, even with a full 3 second wait on transpose which doesn't happen often given randomness, foul procs and tc procs...

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

might as well sharpcast t4, will di more damage..., but with 2×t3 up, youll proc very likely more (and costs less mp)

just potency alone, t4 would be a bit highet

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Intuitively looking at it, it seems like the higher proc chance doesn't have a higher pps for two reasons, 1: the time it takes to cast 2x t3 (even with one being a straigt GDC) and 2: the extra procs would be worth less potency.

What math is involved to optimize this situation?

youre right on the pps for flaring 2 adds. it just alot of time when i do get 2 enenmy left, they are usaully low hp around that time and proabably my swift or triple is on cd or i just want to save it for the next set of full hp big mob pull and also the other dam dps kills it before my long cast flare goes off *makes a fist* lol.
the flare longcast sometime equated to overkill dmg. thus why most of the time i tend to just f4 the remaining health when its 2mob.

i guess it does help that my current meld is the 1050sps meld. i trade speed with bigger numbers :P

It's better to just bring this thread back than start a new one since this is such a great thread anyway. I got a couple of questions for the blm experts of the site.

1. In 4.4, what stats from melding am I looking for in term of highest potential damage for the 380 HQ crafted gear? My preference is doing more stuff, so if casting faster and having more potent casts have the same DPS, I'd rather cast faster...

2. Has there been a definitive answer on which is best to worst (crit, DH and det)?

3. Should I save my TC and SC for when I have to move or is holding on to them such a DPS loss that I should simply git gud?

4. What is the best strat for DPSing during gaze attacks? I get hit a lot because I can't tell when the cast is actually going off due to internet connection. On good days I never get hit, on bad days I eat them all. Should I save my TC for those? Should I just take the DPS loss and wait?

5. Are there any advanced, non-standard rotations that I could use to improve my DPS?

6. If I'm in the middle of a cast and I have to move, what's the best course of action? I like to run and scathe, but is there a better way? I was toying with the idea of SC into the intended rotation, but I always lose a GCD. Is that the correct option: I scathe into the SC then continue the rot from next cast there (basically treating the scathe as the substitute action)? Not really sure of the optimal course of action for uptime in this situation...

7. During AOE (for 2-8 trash), there isn't enough time for (Transpose - UI 0mp) Foul, T4, B3, F3 without some type of TC, SC or LL. What should I do? I like to use those for flare, but LL overlaps, so LL is not a problem... Perhaps once I'm geared and melded this may not be a problem, but in the meantime, what's the best course of action?

I was reading the first page of this post and got huge nostalgia like whoa (RIP Raging Strikes). Anyway, I BLM main (started FF14 in HW) and I'd like to add my two-cents before people who know the actual math start posting numbers and my brain shuts off.


1) It really depends on what you're comfortable with, but since speed is the BLM's major drawback Quicktongue is my main meld. Then Crit and a light smattering of the other two. In all honestly you'll likely only really see a difference with your main/heaviest meld (my ALT who has no melds crits out so high I can't even understand it) but unless you're going for a specific build then Spell Speed and Crit are your easiest go-to since they address a fundamental drawback and add damage weight without having to really micromanage it.

2) Short answer is no. Determination got a buff so it's better than it was, and Direct Hit is what we got when we got rid of Accuracy. However, everything that I read about Direct Hit makes it sound like a soft Crit. Determination is a guaranteed buff but as to it's overall effectiveness, you'll get mixed reviews. Just remember that Spell Speed also buffs your DoT tics so lightning can be more melty (it's sad that's our only DoT but Lightning 4 is so so good). Hopefully some one can give you some better advice here (but this is why I go SS>Crit>everything else).

3) If you know there's a situation coming that you need to move then by all means hang on to it, but certainly don't save it just for that. You're better off doing a slide-cast or a variation of a sharpcast/swiftcast/thunder 3 into a proc and letting the tics do damage while you move (throwing out the next thunder when the other goes out). Triple cast is better if you have it. I've gotten at least 3 blasts of Fire 4 on Construct 7 during his big aoe spin using it. If nothing else, then Scathe but Thunder is better IMO because it gives you a few seconds of damage while you get to where you need to go.


4) Generally you are safe as long as you're not targeting/facing when the eye disappears. If you're having problems because of internet lag and you can't get a thunder in before the gaze goes off then I'd eat the wait time. You'll waste more time if you get hit by it. Just saying.


5) Yes. There was a really good one on Reddit with multiple opener options, though without posting your rotation I can't compare. Goal is to get 6 Fire 4's out before you have to shift back into UI? I tend to adjust as needed. But I'm no where close to top tier. And I like to have fun with it. Today I wanted to do triple-Flare on a mob but Triplecast was on CD. Due to some fortuitous Polyglot timers I was able to layer two Fouls into it. Damn I felt like a boss.


6) Try to slidecast? Usually you want to pick up the rotation where you left off but whatever you do, just try to keep your Polyglot up. Sometimes I have to do an emergency Transpose into UI and do Ice 4 to get my hearts back up. You can do this with one tic of UI and go right back to Fire spam. Using triple-cast in this situation will help if you have it off CD.


7) Ehhh. This is going to sound crazy but I don't use LL with my aoe rotation because I have yet to get the timing right. Doing it without makes it almost perfectly timed to give you just enough mp for 2 fire 2s in between each flare. Mix in Foul and T4 as needed. If there's a better rotation for aoe than the old one I haven't seen it. I'm curious to see what other people say.


Anyway. That's my two cents. Hope you got something out of it. <3

1- get to a sps value you are comfortable with, then strait crit and DH.

2- sps crit and dh are all relatively close in value to your output. Find casting speed you're comfortable with, then going for high crit with a decent ammount of dh is the best course of action. Det is the worst for blm. Det isn't horrible, it's only slightly less valuable than sps/crit/dh, but it is the least valuable substat to you.

3- hold a tc if you know for a fact you will be moving within the next 5 seconds, but typically spend it when convenient, and use sharp off cd weaving after b3/f3/instant cast to minimize clipping, except in very rare scenarios where you know you will need 5 gcds of movement ( triple swift and sharp.)

4- an instant cast like a tc is good for a gaze attack as it adds your gcd as a safety margin while looking away, and not losing uptime. But generally not worth clipping an ogcd like triple swift or sharp to obtain that instant cast, unless you're extremely uncomfortable with your timing. Clipping an ogcd loses you about 0.75 seconds.

5- there used to be, but with how low sps values are in this tier, and since f4 was buffed, not so much anymore. Just standard 6 f4s each astral fire.

6- figure out if you can finish said cast, and slide cast it if you can. Depending on how far you have to move, aether manipulation may be a good option, even if it's clipped.

7- b3 t4 b4 f3 flare flare transpose foul b4 f3 flare flare.
With cds, you can add triple cast to the flares, or convert after 2nd flare to triple flare. This will generally be enough for any aoe scenario. Also, only do aoe rotation for 4+ targets. 3 or less, it's better to just f4 spam one target. If you want to get fancy on 3 targets you can b3 t4 b4 f3 sharp f4x3 f1 f4x3, f3p, triple, flare, transpose foul, b3.

Wow this thread brought back to life, lol

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Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

It's better to just bring this thread back than start a new one since this is such a great thread anyway. I got a couple of questions for the blm experts of the site.

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1. Black mage secondaries are basically the same weight, or close enough that personal performance will outweight stat choice. In general: Spellspeed is better when there are less interrupts and more uptime, Crit/DH is better when you're dealing with high movement phases (More value per GCD, GCD takes longer), and Det is your icing on whatever set up you're going for.

2. Crit is best at end tier of the three listed. Spell Speed is theoretically better, but we'll never get enough to hit those breakpoints.

3. Everything about Black Mage is a flow chart. if you have to move within the allotted time of a FS/TC, it's better to save it for that. You can't guarantee another one without Sharp Cast, and if you need Swift/Triple for something else. Moving during UI is the ideal time, so long as you get T3 up it's not as bad to lose GCDs for moving.

4. Use Swift Cast, Procs, or Triple to roll your GCD if they're not needed while facing away. At lower spellspeed values you can do a "Turn cast". If you know your current cast won't finish before you'd have to turn, just wait, start your cast to time it so it will finish shortly after the Gaze goes out, face away, then turn around to complete the cast when it would. I can't speak for controllers but this is a simple maneuver on mouse /keyboard.

5. Knowing when to not do B4 instead of going straight back into AF is a gain if you know you can't fit in 6 more F4s before some mechanic would force you off, such as a transition. Not only would B4 be wasted, but it's also lower potency than shoving another F4 in its place.

6. Figure out the timings. There's quite a few mechanics you can afford to finish the cast and still move. Remove scathe from your bar entirely. It's not a "well at least I got scathe", it's admitting that you screwed up hard.

7. Transpose again. B4, T4, Foul, transpose, F3. There is no difference here in larger AoE pulls. It's still F3 -> Flare -> Flare.

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Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

It's better to just bring this thread back than start a new one

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It's really not. Yeah, there's good information in this thread. There's also a lot of old information and a lot of asides. And three hundred pages to sift through before getting to modern BLMing. It's better to start a new thread with more recent and more concise advice.

dunno, but the 380 blm overmeld weapon seems better than the 390 (maybe even 400??) blm weapon

got lucky with a drop and got the 390 blm weapon, but it feels weaker than the 380 overmeld (or 385 Susako)

anyone else feel the same? (I cant pars to fully compare them, 390 just "feels" weaker)

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

dunno, but the 380 blm overmeld weapon seems better than the 390 (maybe even 400??) blm weapon

got lucky with a drop and got the 390 blm weapon, but it feels weaker than the 380 overmeld (or 385 Susako)

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The weapon damage and int out class the substats

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

The weapon damage and int out class the substats

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I know 390 should be better for those reasons, but it does not feel like that.

(and 300 crit on the 380 weapon is a lot too, the 2500 crit threshold with food is overreached with the 380.., I hit a bit over 2700 crit with food atm with 380.., with weapon 390 "only" about 2400 crti)

has anyone actually tried / compared both with parsers? (also breaking the 2500 threshold with 380, but not with the 390?)

Question. I was running the Burn as a healer and I noticed things were taking an incredibly long time to die. and then I noticed the blm wasn't casting fire 2. I asked if they could and they replied with 'nah'. and the red mage said that it did more damage to cast flare twice and not cast fire 2 then flare.

I can understand tripple casting flare when Triplecast, and Convert are up but I've never heard of using only flare in an aoe rotation.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

Question. I was running the Burn as a healer and I noticed things were taking an incredibly long time to die. and then I noticed the blm wasn't casting fire 2. I asked if they could and they replied with 'nah'. and the red mage said that it did more damage to cast flare twice and not cast fire 2 then flare.

I can understand tripple casting flare when Triplecast, and Convert are up but I've never heard of using only flare in an aoe rotation.

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Fire 2 only pulls ahead on packs at 6+, but that isn't taking into account T4 Tclouds and fouls.

When you take into account TClouds and Fouls its better to dump mp by just Flaring, and use foul / Tclouds while recovering in UI.

Fire 2 is almost useless. You can safely take it off your skillbars at level cap. Also since the cast time is so long Swiftcast Flare is a DPS increase, and a much larger one than Swiftcast F2 because Flare's potency is so high. The only downside to using Flare is potentially waiting for a mana tick after transpose, but this shouldn't happen often with Foul and Thundercloud.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

Question. I was running the Burn as a healer and I noticed things were taking an incredibly long time to die. and then I noticed the blm wasn't casting fire 2. I asked if they could and they replied with 'nah'. and the red mage said that it did more damage to cast flare twice and not cast fire 2 then flare.

I can understand tripple casting flare when Triplecast, and Convert are up but I've never heard of using only flare in an aoe rotation.

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Rest assured however that even though F2 isn't as useful anymore at level cap, if things weren't *melting* with a BLM in your group, that BLM was doing something TERRIBLY wrong.

Anyone know where the latest BLM DPS/rotation thread lives now? Just came back loaded this from my bookmarks.

Most class guides can be found on this discord: https://discord.gg/thebalanceffxiv

This should be the latest BLM guide as google doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0...j8/mobilebasic

And this site is mostly for caster guide's and informations:
https://www.akhmorning.com/jobs/blm/guide/

Just remember that, if you're not at 80 yet, your rotation is a different one.