Viera as the next new race~ Show your support

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Originally Posted by Saito_S

We... are? Was this said at some point in a Live Letter or something?

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It's a place that exists in Islabard, but it's most likely just like Doma and Crystal Tower. Same name, but not the same place.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

It mostly comes from the in-game polls the Developers put out prior to Heavensward, in which the most popular choice across the five regions was a, "Mammalian demi-beastmen (ex. a rabbit-eared race such as the Viera from FFXII, etc.)"

Link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46936

[Edit]: My mistake, Half-Races were more popular than Mammalian demi-beastmen in Japan, by 1.9%.

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I think it's safe to say that's what we got in the end. While Au Ra are still (probably) debated on being either demons or dragons, I think it's safe to say they're definitely not reptiles. They may have scales here and there, but they're otherwise mostly mammal in appearance. They may have lizard concept arts about, but they also have demons and Viera as their concept art, as well.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

It mostly comes from the in-game polls the Developers put out prior to Heavensward, in which the most popular choice across the five regions was a, "Mammalian demi-beastmen (ex. a rabbit-eared race such as the Viera from FFXII, etc.)"

Link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46936

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Oh, thanks, I'd never seen that before! Explains some of it, anyway.

To be fair, though, that was almost five years ago, before ARR was even out. Things can change over that amount of time, and with the game now having been out for a few years and established its identity, I maintain that in more recent times (the last year or two), outside of the dedicated threads, I never see people discussing Viera being added to this game. Have the devs themselves addressed it since that poll, for that matter? Whether in a "no we are not adding this" or a "we still might add this someday but aren't sure" way? Or have they been silent on it?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It's a place that exists in Islabard, but it's most likely just like Doma and Crystal Tower. Same name, but not the same place.

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"A place that exists"? In what context? I don't see it on the (4.0 expanded) map of Eorzea. Where/how was this called out or confirmed or whatever?

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Originally Posted by Saito_S

Oh, thanks, I'd never seen that before! Explains some of it, anyway.

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No problem. It doesn't help that there was speculation by SE that the polls may have been skewed by using the Viera as a reference. It is a fan-favorite race, so there's plenty of reasoning behind that assumption. That said, in the end, SE does what SE wants. Although the Au Ra category was not as popular as Mammalian Demi-Beastman or Mixed-Races, it's still what we received.

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Originally Posted by Saito_S

"A place that exists"? In what context? I don't see it on the (4.0 expanded) map of Eorzea. Where/how was this called out or confirmed or whatever?

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Best source I can find.

Thank you for correcting Saito on those things.
As for the FF tactics and Vagrant story (vagrant story is not confirmed to be the same ivalice or even a FF) I was referring to every instance after viera were created and ivalice existed.

Saito, until you can find a topic that reaches 72 pages, 46,000 views, and an official poll understand that this is one of the major requests that the community as a whole has.
You know what the difference between you and I is? I can bring proof, while you can't.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

As for the FF tactics and Vagrant story (vagrant story is not confirmed to be the same ivalice or even a FF) I was referring to every instance after viera were created and ivalice existed.

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Then you need to be more clear, or else people are going to correct you (and you cannot disregard Tactics' Ivalice, since that takes place years after FFTA, FFTA2 and FFXII. VS is fair enough, not even a part of the Ivalice Alliance).

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Saito, until you can find a topic that reaches 72 pages, 46,000 views, and an official poll understand that this is one of the major requests that the community as a whole has.

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That logic is flawed, as not everyone looking and posting in this thread are for Viera (and you darn well know I'm not).
For example: let's say I make a thread with the title "Jump and Story Skip Potion - Show your support!" before Yoshi-P's thread. It gets up to 77 pages and way over 44k views. Clearly this must mean that the potions are one of the major requests that the community as a whole has.

That would be a lie, as I know there are people extremely opposed to them. You currently only have the amount of Likes OP has gotten to show you how much people want them and while 172 does seem like a lot... that's not even 1% of the FFXIV playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

As for the FF tactics and Vagrant story (vagrant story is not confirmed to be the same ivalice or even a FF) I was referring to every instance after viera were created and ivalice existed.

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Except, as I already said, Yoshi P heavily implied that the ivalice story we are getting is based on the first FFT, the one without Viera, making your point about it completely irrelevant

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Thank you for correcting Saito on those things.
As for the FF tactics and Vagrant story (vagrant story is not confirmed to be the same ivalice or even a FF) I was referring to every instance after viera were created and ivalice existed.

Saito, until you can find a topic that reaches 72 pages, 46,000 views, and an official poll understand that this is one of the major requests that the community as a whole has.
You know what the difference between you and I is? I can bring proof, while you can't.

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Well, Nestama makes a good point, but even that aside - I'm not claiming to have proof that the community as a whole is AGAINST the idea of Viera being added. It's more down what I have personally observed and witnessed:

which is threads like this one - here or sometimes elsewhere - within which people discuss the idea, and the sentiment that it IS something "the majority" of the FFXIV community wants, or the idea that it's near or at the very top of the "Things The Fans Want" list, is just sort of thrown about like it's fact. Whereas, outside those threads, I don't think I've EVER seen it discussed, positively or negatively. Certainly I've never seen anyone bring it up in game.

Now granted, that's all anecdotal. But you can perhaps understand my skepticism. The other thing is that the poll shows only that "a race like the Viera" was the single most popular option. It's not like it got 50% of the vote or something. You can't really point to that poll and claim it as proof that "this is what the community wants", because out of everyone that voted in the poll, a majority of them voted for something other than the Viera-like race. You could say that it helps prove that more people want Viera than any other single option, but you can't say it proves that "a majority of the community" wants the Viera to be added.

HAVE the devs weighed in on this? I'm curious.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Except, as I already said, Yoshi P heavily implied that the ivalice story we are getting is based on the first FFT, the one without Viera, making your point about it completely irrelevant

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Did he? Interesting, I didn't know that. I had assumed that it would be the "later" Ivalice, with all of the stuff brought in by the TA games and FFXII. I'm honestly more interested in it if it's going to be more confined to "Ivalice as presented in the original FFT".

Also I forgot to reply about this when posting, but thanks for digging that up, Nestama. So basically, the source for us possibly going to Rabanastre/Dalmasca is... Koji being Koji and teasing everyone with maaaaaaaybe's and throat clearing. lol So we'll have to wait and see on that. It very well could be something they plan to do or want to do, but they haven't figured out how yet, so they don't want to actually announce anything.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

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The first Tactics was created before viera existed, that cannot be counted as proof. How can they have existed when they were not created?

Majority can only be proven where there's 2 options. Yet, if we count all the people that are for or against viera in this thread (number of like votes vs those saying they don't want them in this thread) you will find that the majority is indeed on the for side.
As for the jump potion, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority are for it (go ahead and count the 50+ pages, you brought up the jump potions).

Your argument about "it's not 1% of the population" doesn't scientifically make prove your point. This isn't different than how polls are done in any scientific way. We're not even 1% of the population yet we are scientifically provable to represent the community. Wonder why Yoshida and his team did those polls? Wonder why they take Q&A questions only here in the forum?

Here's a google search if you need to understand what scientific polls mean https://www.google.com/search?site=&...k1.l3i6ecR-u-A

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Except, as I already said, Yoshi P heavily implied that the ivalice story we are getting is based on the first FFT, the one without Viera, making your point about it completely irrelevant

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Maybe we watched different fan fests but he didn't heavily imply that at all. In fact what I do remember is yoshida going "he's the creator behind FFXII, Tactics, etc" What you and I remember are very different, care to find real quotes?

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Originally Posted by Saito_S

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I said majority earlier within the context of those opposed/for it. Moreover, new race, just thinking logically would be one of the top request for any expansion. It's as logical as asking for new jobs. And if new race is one of the top requests then breaking it down to which race we want then the poll they ran tilted towards viera. Not only that, but there's been different type of "add beast race" or "add moogle race" and none of them ever stay around or get the amount of support that these ones get. So the poll and topics like these show where the heart of those who want a new race in 5.0 (new race is always a top request) is.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

The first Tactics was created before viera existed, that cannot be counted as proof. How can they have existed when they were not created?

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Because it's still Ivalice and it takes place after FFTA, FFTA2 and FFXII (and you said every, but that dance is done).

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Majority can only be proven where there's 2 options. Yet, if we count all the people that are for or against viera in this thread (number of like votes vs those saying they don't want them in this thread) you will find that the majority is indeed on the for side.
As for the jump potion, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority are for it (go ahead and count the 50+ pages, you brought up the jump potions).

Your argument about "it's not 1% of the population" doesn't scientifically make prove your point. This isn't different than how polls are done in any scientific way. We're not even 1% of the population yet we are scientifically provable to represent the community. Wonder why Yoshida and his team did those polls? Wonder why they take Q&A questions only here in the forum?

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You're a majority in this thread, but outside of it, you're a vocal minority. Can you show me the most recent poll Yoshi-P and his team has done on these forums? If they date back to 2012, then your argument is moot (as those are polls neither of us could vote in because ARR came out in 2013. Also, isn't the playerbase for ARR/HW much larger than 1.X's?). I also don't recall Viera ever being mentioned in the most recent Q&A's, either... in fact, I think the last time Viera was ever mentioned was back in that one interview where Yoshi-P claimed they looked like Miqo'te.

Also, this is the quote from the interview Lambdafish is referring to:

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DS: There has been a lot of speculation about the name of the new raid “Return to Ivalice.” Is the name just homage to Yasumi Matsuno who will design the raid, or there is more to it?

NY: It’s definitely not an homage. It also depends on how the players will interpret it when they’ll actually enter the raid. In terms of the world of Ivalice, and whether or not it is connected to the realm of Final Fantasy XIV, it’s still a mystery, and that’s something that you will have to enjoy while playing the scenario.

All I can say is that I encourage people to get an idea from Final Fantasy Tactics, and sort of brief themselves on that lore.

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Source.