That's fair. When it comes to teammates, in this game and elsewhere, I've always valued performance over politeness. That's not to say that I'm going around telling everyone to get cancer, but I would rather have a jerk who knows how to play than a nice guy who doesn't. The former can get me a clear. The latter causes vote abandons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolys
In the context of an online cooperative game, playing to the best of one's ability is part of the social contract we all signed when we pressed queue. If your ability is low, that's fine. But, I've never met anyone who lacked the ability to use Heavy Thrust. They just didn't want to. And that is NOT fine. It's rude and disrespectful to everyone in your group.
And that is why the idea of unwanted advice boggles my mind. If I can improve my play, please tell me! If I'm making mistakes, shove them in my face. I WANT to play the best I can. I SHOULD play the best I can. Unwanted advice implies that you don't want to improve. Why wouldn't you want to improve at something you're doing? I wouldn't ignore advice in any other activity that could help me. Why would I do it here?
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01-02-2017, 01:06 AMdragonseth07
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01-02-2017, 01:24 AMMisteNo...no it won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoWhit
Your guarantee is void in all 50 states and most of Canada (those Maritimers are just too darn nice)
source: me trying to help other players all the time and doing mentor roulette
The jadedness is too darn high. -
01-02-2017, 01:25 AMaestevalIt sounds like the team won. Not in the most perfectly efficient way possible, but still won. Everyone doesn't have to play like they're neck deep in savage content at all times. Tips for efficiency? Fine. But in all seriousness, current ex dungeons absolutely do not need everyone performing optimally to succeed in. Would it go faster? Sure. Is it the end of the world if not? Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonseth07
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01-02-2017, 01:27 AMLeep
I don't usually talk when I go into a DF. Sometimes I'll say hi, or cheer my party on, or pop open a bottle of wine, but never any extensive conversation. There was this one isolated incident though, where I threw out a reference from Mass Effect 1 and this female Hyur caught one. The entire dungeon from there on we talked about different games, current events, just talking while the other two stayed silent.
I was so captivated from the social interaction, it brought me back to my Guild Wars days and FF XI. I was sad to see her go afterwards, but we bid farewell as you do at the end of any dungeon and continued on. The next day when I hopped on she crept into my mind once more. I enjoyed her company even if it was for a moment and I thought I would add her or send her a message, only to be met with the horrible fate of forgetting her complicated lore friendly name. Since then I changed into a lore friendly name to remind myself about the friend who got away.
Much sad. -
01-02-2017, 02:28 AMAutoWhitI see you didn't post any examples of you being nice when helping others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miste
Has only happened once that I can think of, but here's an example - I get into a dungeon (don't even remember which one. It was a while ago), and during the very 1st pull the tank is yelling at me to " DRG use Doomspike! It's your biggest dps hit for this!" I tried to tell him "the mobs need to be lined up correctly for me to be able to do that (which they weren't). His response was "No they don't!" Actual skill description for Doom Spike - "Delivers an attack with a potency of 160 to all enemies in a straight line before you." So, I said not another word and just left. Pretty sure I know how to play DRG...it IS my main job.
Now, if he'd asked me why I wasn't using it I would've told him, 1st the mobs need to be lined up correctly to get the full advantage of spamming it, and 2nd we have no BRD, so I'm still not gonna be spamming it. I'll use it when I feel it's advantageous AND Invigorate is either off CD, or close to it.
Don't come into a dungeon as something other than a DRG and tell me what to do thinking it's "helpful." Ask me, or suggest to me helpful tips if you want. I'll most likely have an explanation, and if I don't then I'll listen. -
01-02-2017, 02:54 AMdragonseth07See, when I've asked why someone isn't using an ability, the answer has always been something like "It's my sub I'll play how I want". I've never received intelligent discourse from someone in DF defending their play or rejecting advice. I've gotten:Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoWhit
"I'm an ice mage!"
"STFU"
"It's my play style"
"I don't know what that spell does"
"I took that off my bar"
"I don't like that spell"
I wish DF was a magical place where people care enough to learn to play. But, it's not. -
01-02-2017, 03:10 AMMikaeus_The_Lunarchi second this. I'm far from being an expert at all the jobs i play and i don't pretend to be, so if/when people give me advice i generally try to take it in stride. personally i don't really try to give tips unless it's either about my main AST or about really general stuff about some jobs. like i can't tell you anything at all about MNK or WAR, but i know at least the basics of most other jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonseth07
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01-02-2017, 03:39 AMChocolysI understand your view from what you personally expecting from the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonseth07
About performance over rudeness, for me it's not just about the potential valuable information from it, but it's about not encouraging rudeness. Because I think if someone changes his way to play following advice from rude comments, it will re-inforce the commenter into believing that using rude comments is the way to make other people change.
Note: I used the word "rudeness" not "politeness". You can be impolite while not being rude and when in fast paced gameplay where time does matter it's kind of usual to take shortcuts with the standard "polite form". I see nothing wrong about that.
I don't care if someone says "Do X please" or "Do X" or even just "X" in the midst of battle, it's just tactical information, but now if he says "fu**ing do X " or "do X you noob" then he will wait a very long time for me to do X
About unwanted advices: Video-games can be played for 2 reasons: fun/entertainment and e-sport (professional or not). If you play a videogame for e-sport, you will care about max efficiency, about training, improving and useful advices. But people who are just playing in relaxed way for entertainment might no care about such things, they are not playing the game in first place for such considerations.
It's kind like a difference between a soccer club where people are expected learn team tactic, becomes better at controlling the ball and do tricks, compared to few people hitting a foam ball in a dirty way to have fun. In the latter you don't expect someone to interrupt them, and start shouting at them they play like crap, nor they might be interested into working on new tricks.
When you play with a premade group, every can agree what is the purpose of that group, more like e-sport or just having a fun relaxed moment. But when you use the Duty Finder to be matched with random players you can't expect everyone to care about maximazing their efficiency because not everyone is interested in the first place by that. Asking for someone to do so in that context is like joining a group of random people playing soccer and expect them to play or want to play like pro.
For me the only thing I think I can legitimately expect from random matched teammates is for them to play honestly toward completing the Duty. And by honestly I mean playing as good as they can currently do with the way they play. With of course a minimum efficiency at their role, because they have to play the role they queued for, this is a minimum respect to the team.
For example if someone queue as tank and don't care at all about managing enmity and just play like a DPS while the monsters are eating the others alive, then yes I will certainly comment about it. But now if he manages the enmity enough so we can progress in the Duty, I don't see me as entitled to request him to play another more efficient way if he's not interested, because he simply did not sign for e-sport. -
01-02-2017, 04:12 AMMisteWell..if you choose not to believe me then that's fine O.oQuote:
Originally Posted by AutoWhit
I have posted stories before; a few of them anyway and they are in this thread so I didn't see the point of posting another one. I have a lot but I also don't have the kind of time to post them all xD
There should be nothing wrong with telling people information. If I take your word on it that doom spike should not have been used there (DRG is the one job I won't try to tell people how to play because I suck at it beyond comprehension. The only things I could point out to a DRG is to keep heavy thrust on and blood of the dragon.) then he just was misinformed and yeah there are players running around with less info than they think they have, but just because of that doesn't mean that good info isn't out there if you listen to what people have to say.
You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells just to help out a fellow player with knowledge that can help them improve and assist them in their future time on this game. It gets to the point where its like "ohh I need to help this person...wait...wait I need to ask first I can't just simply type a quick explanation, make sure to add smiley face...ok wait next sentence...sugar sweet happy go lucky tone...wait how to I convey that with text? ...hmm ok pikachu ascii drawing or...or a kitty cat ok and another smiley face"
....then you get booted from the party for sitting there typing too much lol xD
Rudeness of course is wrong way to tell anyone anything, but unless they are being outwardly rude by using insulting language like calling people bad, noob, or dumb, etc then I don't see the problem with people telling other people some info.
So that guy was wrong about doom spike, yeah, and yeah he argued with you when you corrected him. Meh not a big deal, you can leave like you said you did or you could also just ignore him. Obviously I've seen people you shouldn't listen to, but you have to take a good look at what someone is telling you before making that decision. Seems to me that one was just nitpicking you though which I can understand it would be irritating. -
01-02-2017, 04:19 AMRennies
Typing as a healer is extremely easy to me. Cast Malefic, press Enter, press keys, cast Malefic again, rinse repeat.