It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

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Originally Posted by Xylira

FFXIV is an MMORPG, which a large part of the point of an MMORPG is the social aspects. The glamour system adds value to the social aspect of the game by giving players ways to better express themselves through their characters. SE is very aware of this, it's the whole reason why Adventure plates and Instant Portraits were even added to the game, as they're yet another way for players to express themselves and better leverage the social aspect of the game.

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You're either intentionally or unintentionally missing the part that it would be entirely optional and only affect those who use it. At this point I would say it's intentional. Anyone who wishes to glamour and anyone who wishes to see those glamours can still do so at their leisure. It doesn't remove or limit social interaction in any capacity. It's no different than people who soley use the Trust system to run content. Should they not get to play because they don't want to be social?

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Originally Posted by Xylira

You have the option to not get upset about something unimportant, or to just play something different that better caters to your delicate sensibilities and narrow definition of 'appropriate aesthetics'.

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If it's so unimportant then why are you getting upset at the idea of someone using it?

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Nice ad hominem thrown in there. I honestly really just kind of feel bad for you that other players choosing how their characters look is so distressing. Maybe MMORPGs aren't your thing.

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Nice ego telling others what is or isn't their thing. If you didn't want attention then the idea of someone not wanting to see your glamour wouldn't be so distressing.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I'm not, SE is and this is their game after all.
If you don't like the visuals SE are presenting, you know what M-letter word I'm going to suggest to you. (✿´ ꒳ ` )

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You may not be SE, but when you are against a client side feature that wouldn't affect you in any way then you are effectively trying to dictate what others see because they look at that feedback to decide whether or not to implement features.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Sorry, but I'd still rather SE not waste development time adding a feature that detracts from the social aspect of the game. I wouldn't throw a fit if they added it, but I just don't see it being more positive than negative overall. Glamours exist for a reason, and if it was meant for only you to see your own glamours, then that's how SE would have implemented the system from the get go. You're also assuming that adding such a feature would even be a simple implementation. With how notoriously spaghetti coded the game is, it's likely not nearly as simple as you're assuming and could likely entail a massive amount of time to get working. Just look at the mess the instant portrait system has been with just getting it to work properly with glamours changing even slightly, and that's building something additional into the game, not modifying a fundamental system that's been baked in and referenced by several other aspects of the game at this point.

Small indie company, please understand.

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Oh yeah 100% many people for feature have already acknowledged that this will never happen. Also not making assumptions on how difficult or easy it would be but yeah small indi team cannot even get hats to work.

It seems this is similar to other propositions like letting players disable rescue to be used on them if they don't consent or allowing people to block sound effects in chat if they don't want to.

It's not about options or choices, it's about forcing those choices on other players, regardless of their consent.

You want to have a risque glam because of whatever reason and it offends you that maybe other people don't consent to whatever thing you think is so cool or funny, and it offends you that they don't want to be a part of it or could disable it. After all what's the fun in a game if you can't force people to be a part of something against their will?

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Originally Posted by Joven

You're either intentionally or unintentionally missing the part that it would be entirely optional and only affect those who use it. At this point I would say it's intentional. Anyone who wishes to glamour and anyone who wishes to see those glamours can still do so at their leisure. It doesn't remove or limit social interaction in any capacity. It's no different than people who soley use the Trust system to run content. Should they not get to play because they don't want to be social?

If it's so unimportant then why are you getting upset at the idea of someone using it?

Nice ego telling others what is or isn't their thing. If you didn't want attention then the idea of someone not wanting to see your glamour wouldn't be so distressing.

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I'd rather SE not waste time on trying to develop something that detracts from the social aspect of the game, just to placate the delicate sensibilities of a minority of players. There's much more important things that SE could be giving development attention to, like making the instant portraits better.

If we are going by the philosophy that the player should be able to modify other players how they see fit, then we should also have the ability the change the races, genders and voices of others as well. Why stop at glamour?

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Originally Posted by Xylira

I'd rather SE not waste time on trying to develop something that detracts from the social aspect of the game, just to placate the delicate sensibilities of a minority of players. There's much more important things that SE could be giving development attention to, like making the instant portraits better.

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Who are you to decide what they spend time on? Do you work for SE? Are you a project manager? The devs aren't obligated to take on every feature suggested on the forums and neither are you required to come in and trash the place because you think it takes away from what you want if people suggest something they want.

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Originally Posted by Joven

You may not be SE, but when you are against a client side feature that wouldn't affect you in any way then you are effectively trying to dictate what others see because they look at that feedback to decide whether or not to implement features.

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Is it wrong to dictate how your character is viewed and wanting them unadulterated? (*´∀｀).。o○

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Originally Posted by Xylira

I'd rather SE not waste time on trying to develop something that detracts from the social aspect of the game, just to placate the delicate sensibilities of a minority of players. There's much more important things that SE could be giving development attention to, like making the instant portraits better.

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Aside from the fact that, as has been said multiple times, it wouldn't detract from the social aspect at all. So what makes instant portraits so important? I don't care about those and never use them. Why should they waste their time on that for a minority of players? See how that logic goes?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Is it wrong to dictate how your character is viewed and wanting them unadulterated? (*´∀｀).。o○

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The more you talk like this the more it definitely set off alarm bells and seems like a sex thing.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Is it wrong to dictate how your character is viewed and wanting them unadulterated? (*´∀｀).。o○

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The fact it's already happening with mods makes that argument null. At least with this it would be in modest gear.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Who are you to decide what they spend time on? Do you work for SE? Are you a project manager? The devs aren't obligated to take on every feature suggested on the forums and neither are you required to come in and trash the place because you think it takes away from what you want if people suggest something they want.

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So your opinion is valid but mine isn't because I don't agree with yours?

Good one :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Xylira

So your opinion is valid but mine isn't because I don't agree with yours?

Good one :rolleyes:

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Your opinion is "I don't want devs to see this because they might put it in instead of something I want"
So yes it's not valid

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Originally Posted by Joven

The fact it's already happening with mods makes that argument null. At least with this it would be in modest gear.

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You are so wishy-washy with mod usage. (*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))
When I first suggested it, you immediately pulled out the "Mods are against the ToS" shtick but now you just pull it out all willy-nilly. What is the narrative you are trying to go for?
I will add this: Mods are player made. If players want something player-side that isn't supported by the devs, they can use them. ٩(｡•ω•｡)و

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Originally Posted by Joven

Aside from the fact that, as has been said multiple times, it wouldn't detract from the social aspect at all. So what makes instant portraits so important? I don't care about those and never use them. Why should they waste their time on that for a minority of players? See how that logic goes?

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In your opinion. I and others disagree, and feel that being able to disable other people's glamours detracts from the game.

As for instant portraits, they're hardly important at all, which was kind of my tongue in cheek point. But at least they're a positive addition by adding to the system and expanding on the social elements of the game, rather than trying to stifle them.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

So your opinion is valid but mine isn't because I don't agree with yours?

Good one :rolleyes:

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No. It’s because you are willfully ignoring some of the info in the argument you are against. Like the part where it has no effect on you. Or the part where no one enjoys what you are wearing the way you do and that also has no effect on you

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Your opinion is "I don't want devs to see this because they might put it in instead of something I want"
So yes it's not valid

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My opinion is that your requested 'feature' would detract from the overall game. In large part because of the fact that it would be more negative than positive, I think there are much better things they could be working on. I don't think your opinion is invalid, I just disagree. Nice of you to discard my opinion because it doesn't align with yours though. Very cool.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

No. It’s because you are willfully ignoring some of the info in the argument you are against. Like the part where it has no effect on you. Or the part where no one enjoys what you are wearing the way you do and that also has no effect on you

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Then I will also request an option to dress up people in whatever glam I desire as well. Because if your argument hinges on '' it has no effect on you '' then such an option should be on the works as well as one that disables glamour.

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

Then I will also request an option to dress up people in whatever glam I desire as well. Because if your argument hinges on '' it has no effect on you '' then such an option should be on the works as well as one that disables glamour.

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I mean, I don’t see how this would be possible to dress everyone. But I also wouldn’t be opposed because what you see on your screen doesn’t bother me. Have at it.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

In your opinion. I and others disagree, and feel that being able to disable other people's glamours detracts from the game.

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People seem to forget that the suggestion was to make glamours toggleable. Therefore, if you don't want to use the feature, you wouldn't have to. It would not affect your game, or the game of any other person who does not wish to use the feature. That's the beauty of choice.

While I don't feel I would use this feature myself, I understand why peopl would. People really are making a big deal about about literally nothing. It does not affect the glamour wearer. It does not detract from the game of people who care about glamour. If you want to see glamours, don't use the feature. It is really as simple as that.

Your glamours aren't your personality.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

My opinion is that your requested 'feature' would detract from the overall game. In large part because of the fact that it would be more negative than positive, I think there are much better things they could be working on. I don't think your opinion is invalid, I just disagree. Nice of you to discard my opinion because it doesn't align with yours though. Very cool.

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Yes there again, you think it's a waste of time for dev time, you think they should work on other things, not that you object to the requested feature. That's not a valid complaint. That's you trying to play project manager and shut down suggestions.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Yes there again, you think it's a waste of time for dev time, you think they should work on other things, not that you object to the requested feature. That's not a valid complaint. That's you trying to play project manager and shut down suggestions.

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With that person's logic, I could say that all glamour is a waste of the devs time. Have them focus on gameplay and duties instead of introducing the same ponytail with slight variations or the same skirt in different colours! Wonder how much dev time is wasted on that? /ponder

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

You are so wishy-washy with mod usage. (*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))
When I first suggested it, you immediately pulled out the "Mods are against the ToS" shtick but now you just pull it out all willy-nilly. What is the narrative you are trying to go for?
I will add this: Mods are player made. If players want something player-side that isn't supported by the devs, they can use them. ٩(｡•ω•｡)و

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It's not wishy-washy at all. Mods are against the ToS. As such most people aren't willing to risk their accounts for something like this which is why it's a suggested feature. Those that mod are already altering your character apperance against your consent and yet you are none the wiser for it because it does not affect your game. Same with this feature.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

In your opinion. I and others disagree, and feel that being able to disable other people's glamours detracts from the game.

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That is also your opinion.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

As for instant portraits, they're hardly important at all, which was kind of my tongue in cheek point. But at least they're a positive addition by adding to the system and expanding on the social elements of the game, rather than trying to stifle them.

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Again your opinion. I find them annoying.

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

Then I will also request an option to dress up people in whatever glam I desire as well. Because if your argument hinges on '' it has no effect on you '' then such an option should be on the works as well as one that disables glamour.

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I see nothing wrong with this.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

No. It’s because you are willfully ignoring some of the info in the argument you are against. Like the part where it has no effect on you. Or the part where no one enjoys what you are wearing the way you do and that also has no effect on you

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I'm not ignoring it, I just think that people need to learn how to cope better.

'But people disabling your glamour doesn't effect you!'

Uh-huh, not unlike you seeing other people's glamours you dislike doesn't really effect you in any more or less of a meaningful and substantive way than players knowing their glamours aren't being seen by other players. Both positions are a matter of personal opinion, and neither are more or less valid than the other.

That said however, the glamour system was made with the intent that other players see what you choose to glamour onto your character. SE also knowingly added plenty of silly cosmetics that can be used with the glamour system. Other players making silly glamours you may not approve of is within the intended bounds of the system. If it really bothers you that much, you have options. But expecting SE to spend time overhauling the glamour system in a manner that arguably runs counter to the whole purpose of it, is an odd position to take.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

I'm not ignoring it, I just think that people need to learn how to cope better.

'But people disabling your glamour doesn't effect you!'

Uh-huh, not unlike you seeing other people's glamours you dislike doesn't really effect you in any more or less of a meaningful and substantive way than players knowing their glamours aren't being seen by other players. Both positions are a matter of personal opinion, and neither are more or less valid than the other.

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Ok let’s break this down so you understand.

1. It’s already been said that for some people this is immersion breaking. That is an effect on someone else

2. Someone having this feature doesn’t turn off your glamour to you. You would be oblivious to the fact they are or are not using it. Therefor this has no effect on those in glamour

3. Neither 1 nor 2 are opinion. Those are facts

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Ok let’s break this down so you understand.

1. It’s already been said that for some people this is immersion breaking. That is an effect on someone else

2. Someone having this feature doesn’t turn off your glamour to you. You would be oblivious to the fact they are or are not using it. Therefor this has no effect on those in glamour

3. Neither 1 nor 2 are opinion. Those are facts

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FFXIV draws from all prior installments of Final Fantasy, which includes more modern settings and lighthearted aesthetics, as well as anything new SE wishes to add to the game. Anything SE decides to include in the game fits within the realm of the game's canon, because SE decides what is canon, not you, not me, not anyone else. Ergo, everything you can glamour in the game is lore appropriate, whether you like it or not. Other player's glamours are not immersion breaking, you're just overly picky about what you personally find acceptable.

Furthermore, adding an option to disable other player's glamours runs contrary to the social aspect of the game. I can't speak to the exact reasons why they were added, but I can surmise that the reason the glamour system, and by extension adventure plates and instant portraits, exist is to leverage the social aspect of the game. Giving players avenues to express themselves to other players by personalizing their characters is a fairly core feature to many MMORPGs with regards to keeping players better engaged. Adding an option to disable other player's glamours would invalidate the purpose of the aforementioned features and detract from the overall game.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Other player's glamours are not immersion breaking, you're just overly picky about what you personally find acceptable.

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Considering the bolding, this is directed at me and not the general population. Try going a few pages back where I say I don’t care what people wear. I just don’t think others should be forced to see glamours if they don’t want.

Your bolding makes you seem mad and on the attack…. against someone in a clown outfit. Yes, I must clearly care what others around me wear. Get a grip.

Again, being able to adjust what you see has no impact on those around them. Nor does it take anything from you. Stop getting so heated over people not wanting to see your costume. It’s really not a big deal when people aren’t into your choice of style

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Again, being able to adjust what you see has no impact on those around them. Nor does it take anything from you. Stop getting so heated over people not wanting to see your costume. It’s really not a big deal when people aren’t into your choice of style

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Its also possible to just not look at it, respect that persons style & glam; even if its not your taste, and go on about your day.
Instead of trying to force them out of total existence or change them.
Doesnt hurt you or effect you. Its really not a big deal that people exist that dont share your style or opinion of what good fashion is. Or just like their glam that you dont like.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its also possible to just not look at it, respect that persons style & glam; even if its not your taste, and go on about your day.
Instead of trying to force them out of total existence or change them.
Doesnt hurt you or effect you. Its really not a big deal that people exist that dont share your style or opinion of what good fashion is. Or just like their glam that you dont like.

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When you're stuck in a duty it's kind of hard to "just not look at it" and like I said to another person on here: since we're so keen on telling others what to do then just wear something else.

Also, for the billionth time, this isn't forcing anyone to do anything.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Considering the bolding, this is directed at me and not the general population. Try going a few pages back where I say I don’t care what people wear. I just don’t think others should be forced to see glamours if they don’t want.

Your bolding makes you seem mad and on the attack…. against someone in a clown outfit. Yes, I must clearly care what others around me wear. Get a grip.

Again, being able to adjust what you see has no impact on those around them. Nor does it take anything from you. Stop getting so heated over people not wanting to see your costume. It’s really not a big deal when people aren’t into your choice of style

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Way to try and entirely sidestep the substance of my refutation of your points, and trying to pivot into tone policing. If you don't have a counter aruegment, that's fine, but no need to resort to ad hominems ;)

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Originally Posted by Joven

When you're stuck in a duty it's kind of hard to "just not look at it" and like I said to another person on here: since we're so keen on telling others what to do then just wear something else.

Also, for the billionth time, this isn't forcing anyone to do anything.

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Its...VERY easy. The boss, the environment, the health meter, the enemy health meter, the party health meter, the mechanics, the effects, the skill effects.
There is SO much more to look at, then somebody's Avatar & Glamour.
Dont like it? Just dont look at it

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Way to try and entirely sidestep the substance of my refutation of your points, and trying to pivot into tone policing. If you don't have a counter aruegment, that's fine, but no need to resort to ad hominems ;)

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You pointed your finger at me. That got the refutation you seek. You threw out incorrect assumptions and I responded. Now you’re just looking for a fight

How about, instead, you try to justify your position. Why must people see your glamour? How are you effected by what is on someone’s screen which you would have no knowledge of?

This request is as innocent as having a colour blind option. Yet you can’t give any valid answer as to how someone else’s option to toggle would impact your own experience.

No, instead, seems you just have a control issue

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Way to try and entirely sidestep the substance of my refutation of your points, and trying to pivot into tone policing. If you don't have a counter aruegment, that's fine, but no need to resort to ad hominems ;)

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Let us just say resources were not a factor and this could be added with no impact on other features. What is your problem then? At the core your issue with it stems from your own personal disdain for the idea. It is not rooted in logic just preface, your reasoning at the core is not any more valid or invalid then those in favor of the feature.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Let us just say resources were not a factor and this could be added with no impact on other features. What is your problem then?

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If it were that easy, it would have been added to the game in 2020 or sooner.
...over 300 pages ago

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its...VERY easy. The boss, the environment, the health meter, the enemy health meter, the party health meter, the mechanics, the effects, the skill effects.
There is SO much more to look at, then somebody's Avatar & Glamour.
Dont like it? Just dont look at it

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Again, since we're so keen on telling other people what to do, just wear something else.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Again, since we're so keen on telling other people what to do, just wear something else.

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That sounded like a demand....

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Originally Posted by Joven

Nobody is demanding anything.

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The Cracks are Forming....

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

If it were that easy, it would have been added to the game in 2020 or sooner.
...over 300 pages ago

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You are missing the point of the question, the point is those that are against it at the core reasoning is not less or more valid then those in favor of it the feature. At the core you just do not like something and do not want it added simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

That sounded like a demand....



The Cracks are Forming....

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Conflating two seperate things isn't going help your case.

Of course you never really had a case to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

You are missing the point of the question, the point is those that are against it at the core reasoning is not less or more valid then those in favor of it the feature. At the core you just do not like something and do not want it added simple as that.

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I stand by my statement regardless.
Call it a Preemptive strike on anybody who might say "its an easy feature to add" or actually believe "it wouldn't take any time away from anything"
Because.....coding takes time. Modding a game that only effects YOUR screen is different then altering game code that effects everything globally live on the server across Data Centers.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Conflating two seperate things isn't going help your case.
Of course you never really had a case to begin with.

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No Counter-argument XD
You just said "Just wear something else" which is basically telling someone what to do / a demand.
So....yeah.

And before you think to say "you weren't making a demand"
Then ill ask...did you really mean it? 'just wear something else' Or was it just some 'gotcha' to look clever?

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

You pointed your finger at me. That got the refutation you seek. You threw out incorrect assumptions and I responded. Now you’re just looking for a fight

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Ahh, you mean like flippantly claiming that someone is being obstinate and willfully ignoring one side of the argument simply because they disagree with a position? Or how about then going on to talk down to them like they're just stupid and 'just don't get the facts', which said 'facts' were incorrect by the way. Do those not count as throwing out incorrect assumptions and trying to pick a fight?

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

How about, instead, you try to justify your position. Why must people see your glamour? How are you effected by what is on someone’s screen which you would have no knowledge of?

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Because FFXIV is an MMORPG, a social game, and how players choose to present their characters to other players is an extension of that social aspect of the game. To allow disabling of others glamours undermines the social aspect of the game. I stated this already, but you have yet to acknowledge the point.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

This request is as innocent as having a colour blind option. Yet you can’t give any valid answer as to how someone else’s option to toggle would impact your own experience.

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Colour blind options do not disable a feature from the game, they are an accessibility feature. Also nice appeal to emotion. And it would impact my experience for knowing that my glamour is less valid. People like showing off their hard ground gear and other glamour, giving the ability to disable such detracts from the social aspect of the game.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

No, instead, seems you just have a control issue

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This is the funniest thing I've read all day.

So it's a control issue for me to have my character appear as I'd prefer, yet somehow not also a control issue for other people trying to force how they perceive everyone else around them. Flawless logic :rolleyes:

Once again, you've entirely ignored the substance of my arguments, pretended like I made none, and resorted to ad hominems.