Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

to me the definition of elisit is simple, its someone who says:

"I don't go in a t5, unless i am being paid for it"

to me , going to help people in t5 or t9 or what ever is fun and part of the game, helping others weather it's a new player or a friend is something that adds to the game in my opinuin.

while elitist, never bother doing anyting in the game, unless they geting gill seller's money for it

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

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Before I left the Free Company due to timezone issues, Scarlet was a pretty strong leader last I remember. Not sure if it matters or not, but during my time in the FC, it is usually the person asking for help that invites the players who wish to help out. Not pointing fingers or anything since I had left a long while ago (last year to be exact). Of course, it wasn't all good during my time with them. As I mentioned before, timezone issues was the reason; I was usually alone. Anyway, I can't say for anything that has happened recently because I have since not talked to Scarlet and most of the players I've met also have moved on, so apologies if I sound one-sided.

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Eh, honestly, I don't think anyone should be proud about being an 'elitist', but nobody can deny that they are just a little bit of one. Everyone has an inner elitist~

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Originally Posted by starLivitation

to me the definition of elisit is simple, its someone who says:

"I don't go in a t5, unless i am being paid for it"

to me , going to help people in t5 or t9 or what ever is fun and part of the game, helping others weather it's a new player or a friend is something that adds to the game in my opinuin.

while elitist, never bother doing anyting in the game, unless they geting gill seller's money for it

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That's not a good example, there's plenty of casuals that only do an instance for their clear and never look back again. Like all those people bailing on steps of faith. I would really rather them not waste any more resources on this cesspool they call a story. If they gonna make a trial, make it an extreme level trial and give people some decent gear for doing it.

So pointless we have all these trials that people only do one time. Such a waste of manpower.

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Originally Posted by starLivitation

to me the definition of elisit is simple, its someone who says:

"I don't go in a t5, unless i am being paid for it"

to me , going to help people in t5 or t9 or what ever is fun and part of the game, helping others weather it's a new player or a friend is something that adds to the game in my opinuin.

while elitist, never bother doing anyting in the game, unless they geting gill seller's money for it

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Except that's not what an elitist is.

The elitist says: What? No i135 gear? I'll not go to T5 with such a peasant as you!

That's an elitist. An elitist is someone who holds others to an unreasonable and often unattainable standard.

What you're describing is at best a merc, and at worst an ass.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

That's an elitist. An elitist is someone who holds others to an unreasonable and often unattainable standard.

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An elitist also says, "Wow, that guy has Dreadwyrm gear. He must have no life and is a loser! Probably also a jerk!"

Point being; a casual can also be as elitist as a veteran. Heck, anyone can be elitist. The term is very broad and isn't anchored to one group specifically. The general accepted meaning as far as I've seen it being used is for players who look down upon other players; regardless if they are newcomers or veterans. Long story short, don't be a jerk no matter what.

I never did like the concept of Casuals and Hardcore. I saw this first pop up back in 2002 when I was playing on the EQ RP server. I was pretty ignorant back then when it came to MMORPG mechanics and the like. I wasn't bad at the game, but I didn't know the game. Not enough to be successful. But I did mostly RP so it didn't matter so much. Eventually I hit max level or near max level, as the PoP expansion just came out.

In this expansion I realized that for me to even do some of the group content, I need to pick up my game a tad. So I asked questions. And got answers. People were more sociable back then since EQ was a much slower paced game compared to later ones. I took what I found out and ran with it. Started getting good at the classes I was playing. Doing their roles and sub roles very well.

I took this knowledge back with me and tried to elevate my friends. Some tried. Some did well with it. But when failures started happening, the excuse was, "we're just casaul."

WoW came out and I moved with some people to that. Again, did the RP thing again. This game was way more complex than EQ. In EQ you had HP, Mana, Atk, and AC... with some focus effects thrown in. Now in WoW there was attack speed, crit, and other stuff. We also had a hotbar.. full of abilities... then two hotbars as you got closer to 60. I know this sounds weird now, but in 2004, it was a big jump to say the least.

Back in 2004 and early 2005, people did PUGs for some of the beginning end game dungeons. You had roles and sub roles.. like hunters were DPS, but they were expected to trap stuff, and kite things. I learned those things. Heck I even learned how to trap two things at once (for the time it was a decent trick), doubling my worth in that role. Again I tried to bring back my knowledge to some of my friends, again the excuse was, "we're just casual."

2006 rolls around. I join the army, and I'm out of gaming for a year for training (basic + school). Get to my first duty station and get back into WoW. Friends I once played with, are scattered across servers. So I begin anew with some real like friends of mine. The focus is on Raiding, not RP. Now I'm with a group that is considered 'hardcore'. I took everything in like sponge and learned the ins and outs of the game and did quite well.

I don't wish to tell the whole story between 2007 and 2010, as it involves many games as well as people. But I will say this. I've learned things that just made me ask more questions. Why do people sell themselves short? I used to be there with people who identify as casual. They're capable people. They can learn the game, but they lack the initiative to take it further. Some claim dexterity issues, or incapable of computing some 'crazy' math or some other excuse. But its always an excuse. I honestly think anyone can do what they want to do.

But therein lies the question. What do these people want to do? I've learned that you can't make them learn what they don't want to do. You just can't. They like where they are. And that is where they wish to stay. Don't push it.

At least that's how its always been till 2010.

It seems every decade brings a paradigm shift to gaming. In 1990s you had players who would coordinate over landline phones to get things done. They had email and IM back then. But calling someone got you a response instantly. Over time the 'hardcore' has lightened up a tad lol. But one thing I have seen with the 'casual' is drastic changes.

In the 90s, they were fine where they were. In fact the term casual merely meant you played less than hardcore.
In the 2000s, it started being used as a derogatory term by those who were 'hardcore'.
in the 2010s, we're seeing people like the OP talked about in his/her initial post. Hardcore is now the derogatory term.

When you have people like me, who have seen online gaming since 1995, we have a sense of... perspective to say the least. The way the terms hardcore and casual are used have changed. But the people who identify as either, haven't changed in one way. That is, the amount of time and effort put into what they are doing. Casual plays a little less than a hardcore player does on average. That's really the only difference.

At least that's been the constant. Other factors have changed of course. But that is mostly self imposed. The polarization effect has happened not because developers made games that caused it. But because players naturally are drawn to charismatic people that have a likeness or perceived likeness to them. Hardcores are drawn to the message that they are the victims being preyed upon by casuals trying to be carried. And Casuals are claiming to be victims because the better off, are not taking the time to help them or impose outrageous demands upon them.

Both stances are actually pretty ridiculous.

What we have going is trolls from both sides causing issues (well not really any side, and I'll get to that in a moment). And the best thing to do is to realize that. Your average hardcore player is hardcore because no only is he or she good at what they do and have the gear to do it. They know people whom they can group with to get it done. You know what they do? They group up with those players get the content done and you never hear or see them (content is instanced).

Your average casual player is the same way. They stick to their own. Doing the stuff they believe they can do. They stay away from places where they would be expected to do anything outside their comfort zone.

So where are the real complaints coming from. What about the paradigm shift I spoke about earlier? This is where it gets ridiculous. Its the players inbetween causing trouble with each other. Try this. Use the duty finder for low level dungeon. And watch how good or bad players are. You will notice that things go.. well averagely. Players aren't for the most part goofing it up and wiping. But they aren't exactly stellar either.

But when something goes wrong, the accusations go out about someone being too hardcore or too casual. Your average player, is Neither.

But the polarization between hardcores and casuals has gone on for so long. And people forgot the meanings behind the labels. And now use them as derogatory terms for one another. That we're seeing these debates coming up. Yes.. thats right. People calling people casuals and hardcore are actually not that much better or worse at the game than each other. And probably play on average, the same amount of time. And the funny thing is, they're PUGing.

Casuals don't PUG. And neither do Hardcores. They haven't in 20 years. Casuals skip content they can't do unless they have a friend bring them through. And Hardcores stick to their own.

So what is really going on is players mis-identifying themselves or others. Now I will say this, there is massive differences between one average player and another. There are many who can do the extremes. There are many who cannot. But to be honest this isn't due to skill or how long they are playing. It comes down to personal responsibility. Your player that can't progress content and blames everyone else instead of themselves is NOT going to progress. The one who turns inward and tries to improve will progress... eventually. That is one sad fact is you need a certain number of responsible players to progress if using the queues.

But you're not hardcore if you seek aid with like minded players. I would love to see more players do this. Stop making accusations to each other. Group with like minded players. You don't have to be hardcore to be in helpful FCs or LSs. And you don't have to label yourself as a casual and sell yourself short. You can do anything you wish to do. Don't label others, and especially don't label yourself.

OP brought up some interesting points. But I fear they are failing to take personal responsibility. Especially since allegations are popping up about their FC. We'll see what they have to say to those. But in the end, they are free to run their FC and their own play however they wish. But I fear they are on a road to frustration, but thats a road they have to choose for themselves. I'm not going to judge. I am only going to worry about how I present and conduct myself. I know what it takes to be successful in a MMORPG in the goals I wish to pursue. And I know what it takes to ultimately have fun.

To the rest of you. Don't get wrapped up in what others do or don't do. Set a goal. And set a pace for that goal. Next surround yourselves with people with a similar goal and pace. You should do alright.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

An elitist also says, "Wow, that guy has Dreadwyrm gear. He must have no life and is a loser! Probably also a jerk!"

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No. "Elitist" actually has a pretty narrow definition. It's a form of superiority complex. It's misused beyond all imagination to mean pretty much "anyone I don't like."

What you've described there is a form of inferiority complex being deflected.

You're right that being a jerk is bad, regardless of which side you're doing it on behalf of.

I can't believe this is still going.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

I can't believe this is still going.

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That's because there's no new content. Ergo, people will beat the dead horse to death till new content comes out. Goodness knows my time in PAYDAY 2 and L4D2 forums were prime examples of it.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

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Ahhh the good old days of decades past.. I remember when I was playing WoW during closed beta, we had a group of lv 16 mage (myself), 17 Rogue, 27 Paladin, and I don't remember the others.. Well, we ran the dungeon for about 3 hours until respawn, we didn't make it. So we regrouped and tried a second time, over all it took us nearly 6 hours to finish the first dungeon in the game. None of us knew what we were doing, we wiped wiped and wiped.. But we didn't give up..

After that, we all kept in touch and made a guild together, guild expanded and we moved into open beta as Horde, made a new guild and over a dozen of us carried over.. It was one of the best experiences I remember playing any MMO in my entire life.. 2 days into open beta, we're all lv ~20 so we go to Southshore and wage a war with half a dozen of us on the shores :) I still remember it like yesterday and that was over a decade ago..

We didn't have elitist/casuals back then.. MMOs were pretty much geared towards hard core players. When people got sick of short, single player RPGs or the endless grind that was Diablo II, they would move on to MMOs, it was almost a rite of passage for gamers, you start off with simple games, then you either move into RTS, FPS, or MMO. We didn't have high expectations of others, we would explain fights as we go along, we would learn mechanics by trial and error...

I have to admit, until HM dungeons, I haven't had to look up any mechanics in the dungeons in this game as WAR tank.. mechanics? dodge the red stuff, click on the shiny stuff.. I've come to a point now where I've become so jaded when I see people that are utterly clueless in dungeons and refuse to listen to advice on the mechanics/strategy.. I just give up on them and hope not to run into them again. I have no problem with people taking the game casually, but when they join a party and refuse to at least pull their own weight, there really isn't much else to do.. People take pride in mediocrity these days, healthy attitude about gaming sure, but come on, we're playing an MMO, invest some time in it, 2 hrs a day, 6 hrs a day, 14 hrs a day, nothing wrong with that :P

I'm not able to put in that kind of time anymore, so I opt out of raids and higher lvl dungeons, but I know what I'll have to do if I want to get into those contents... I don't think that I'm entitled to have 7 people working in tandem just to pull my dead weight, so I don't go to these things unless I'm prepared.. It's not a matter of courtesy to others, I just know the likelihood of failure with my inexperience and unpreparedness, I don't want to waste my own time either.. What's the point in that?