It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

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Originally Posted by Joven

Or they're just building it up when really it's as deep as a puddle.

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Right ? So easy to step in, isn't it ? It always is.

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Originally Posted by Teno

Right ? So easy to step in, isn't it ? It always is.

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So explain how deep it is instead of making vague statements.

I don't need it, but if there's enough people who want it, why not. It's a client-side cosmetic change.

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Originally Posted by AcaciaTyrannia

So now that we have female characters tanking in string bikini's and now men in wedding dresses, it's time to adopt an option a lot of other games have: Hide Glamour. Naturally troglodyte are going to assume it's because of the men in dresses. It's actually because it's breaks the theme and feel of it being a final fantasy game. Tanks should wear plate, healers should wear robes, and no one should be in a fight seriously wearing carbuncle slippers and lingerie.

I don't propose a limit to glamour, I just want to be able to turn off other players glamours displaying on my client. That way they can "Express" themselves all they want, and I don't have to suffer another topless male in a thong.

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how about. no.
you dont have the right to determine what other's wear. just like real life.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

so then....does the same apply to the Glamour Toggle? is there no argument for it if people dont care for it / want it?
But also, I dont think this is a good counter argument personally.

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My statement was not an argument. I have stated my argument many times in the thread, adding this feature would give players an extra tool to police and enhance their own game experience without having to request removal of certain things or simply avoid playing the game altogether.

Though I 100% agree if the reason behind not wanting an optional feature that one does not have to use because they do not want it, or resources van be better used elsewhere yeah they are pretty lame. To someone somewhere something is a peice of content that is a waste of time. I think island sanctuary is dumb and they should have used that time on something else, even so I can still see the value for those that wanted or enjoy it. So I would never say they should do it because of x
.I may feel that way but I just choose to not take part in the content.

Then you have statements like this

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Originally Posted by MaeveHatesHousing

how about. no.
you dont have the right to determine what other's wear. just like real life.

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No one is determining what you are wearing this feature would largely be like using ones imagination to alter the appearance of others. While not 1:1 I hope you get my point. Outside of super niche situations no one will know. You can still express yourself how you want. Only way it would deter you ia if you make the personal assumption that everyone was using the feature but then at that point I have to ask are you doing it for yourself or for others to see you?

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Originally Posted by MaeveHatesHousing

how about. no.
you dont have the right to determine what other's wear. just like real life.

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Exept nobody is determining what others wear. You can still wear whatever you want. Also, this is not real life, stop trying to compare the two. There are a lot of things you can do here that you can't do in real life so that argument is moot.

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Originally Posted by MaeveHatesHousing

how about. no.
you dont have the right to determine what other's wear. just like real life.

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*walk into a store in the middle of the day wearing pasties and a thong*
*people want to you to leave due to your lack of clothing*
*gets escorted out due to lack of clothes by the store's employees*
"Ugh, wtf. I thought we had rights!"

I'm surprised this isn't an option already. Just have it toggled off by default. I used to play on PS3 and when I'd load super slow into Limsa, you'd see people in armor that would quickly shift over to their glamour so I always wondered if the game loaded base armor then glamoured over it super quick to players during the black screen.

No thanks.

The point of glamours isn't just so that you can change how you see your character, but you choose how your character looks to other players. Allowing others to disable glamours invalids a large portion of the point of the glamour system.

As for immersion, FFXIV pulls it's aesthetics from all past FF games, which includes some silly as well as more modern looking clothing. Furthermore, if SE felt that something really didn't fit within the intended aesthetics of the setting, they wouldn't add it to the game in the first place. In other words, if you don't like other people's glamours so much that you want to turn them off, maybe FFXIV isn't the game for you.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

No thanks.

The point of glamours isn't just so that you can change how you see your character, but you choose how your character looks to other players. Allowing others to disable glamours invalids a large portion of the point of the glamour system.

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Except not everybody cares about how you choose to dress up your character unless, like the thread is about, it's distracting or obnoxious.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

As for immersion, FFXIV pulls it's aesthetics from all past FF games, which includes some silly as well as more modern looking clothing. Furthermore, if SE felt that something really didn't fit within the intended aesthetics of the setting, they wouldn't add it to the game in the first place. In other words, if you don't like other people's glamours so much that you want to turn them off, maybe FFXIV isn't the game for you.

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People play this game for different reasons. Glamour is just a small part of that. Many people don't care about EX, Savage or Ultimate content. Should they also not play the game? Telling people "this isn't the game for you" just because they don't care about a small segment of that game is egotistical.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

No thanks.

The point of glamours isn't just so that you can change how you see your character, but you choose how your character looks to other players. Allowing others to disable glamours invalids a large portion of the point of the glamour system.

As for immersion, FFXIV pulls it's aesthetics from all past FF games, which includes some silly as well as more modern looking clothing. Furthermore, if SE felt that something really didn't fit within the intended aesthetics of the setting, they wouldn't add it to the game in the first place. In other words, if you don't like other people's glamours so much that you want to turn them off, maybe FFXIV isn't the game for you.

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Main question, if you do not know then how it would it negatively impact your desire to use glam? Is the mere inclusion enough to deter or detract from glam? I just do not get how say me not wanting to see your glam invalids your glam and those that do wish to see it, especially if you have no practical way of knowing I am using the feature. You would have to make the base assumption that a person is using it in the first place.

If that is your fear just saying mods that alter how others are seen on your client already exist.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Except not everybody cares about how you choose to dress up your character unless, like the thread is about, it's distracting or obnoxious.

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But the person wearing the outfit cares. (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و
You can't just type a whole speech about how you got over your self-esteem issues by learning not to care about what others think, allowing you to do and wear what you want and express yourself freely then poo-poo the idea for others. (✿´ ꒳ ` )

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

But the person wearing the outfit cares. (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و
You can't just type a whole speech about how you got over your self-esteem issues by learning not to care about what others think, allowing you to do and wear what you want and express yourself freely then poo-poo the idea for others. (✿´ ꒳ ` )

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Once again, for the millionth time, this would not remove people's ability to wear what they want.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Except not everybody cares about how you choose to dress up your character unless, like the thread is about, it's distracting or obnoxious.

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Okay, good for them. It doesn't bother me if people care or not. Doesn't change that I still want to choose how my characters look for both myself and to other players, and the option to disable other people's glamours invalidates my choice for how I want to present my characters. I'm not fond of some of the more ridiculous glamours some people come up with, but I'm not so thin skinned about it that I'm unable to accept that it's just part of the game and look past it. In the grand scheme, it's really not that big of a deal and doesn't upset me if someone wants to dress up their Roe in nothing but a chocobo mask and thong, for example. If anything, seeing someone wearing an over the top ridiculous glam just gives me some insight about the player behind the character and whether or not I'd want to interact with them.

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Originally Posted by Joven

People play this game for different reasons. Glamour is just a small part of that. Many people don't care about EX, Savage or Ultimate content. Should they also not play the game? Telling people "this isn't the game for you" just because they don't care about a small segment of that game is egotistical.

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I don't do Savage or Ultimate content, but the difference is that I don't whine and moan about it existing because it doesn't personally cater to my personal preferences. I fully accept that it's not something I enjoy spending my time doing in game, and I instead focus on the things in game that I do enjoy. Just the same, not everyone's personal glam is going to be my cup of tea, but I'm not going to whine about it if they choose to make their character look ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Main question, if you do not know then how it would it negatively impact your desire to use glam? Is the mere inclusion enough to deter or detract from glam? I just do not get how say me not wanting to see your glam invalids your glam and those that do wish to see it, especially if you have no practical way of knowing I am using the feature. You would have to make the base assumption that a person is using it in the first place.

If that is your fear just saying mods that alter how others are seen on your client already exist.

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If you're going to pull out the 'but client mods' argument, then let me instead ask why haven't you just modded your client to swap out ridiculous items with bland items? If you consider it a valid solution and the issue really bothers you so much, then there you go that's your solution. And no, I'm not advocating for breaking the ToS, just pointing out how moot your argument is.

But for the record, I dislike that other players can and do use clothing swap mods which can break the aesthetic look I'm trying to present for my characters. Also, trying to reframe my personal preference as a 'fear' is a disingenuous attempt to invalidate my position by trying to portray it as irrational.

And the person wearing the outfit can still care but they'll never know that other people can't actually see the glamour unless they interact with them and ask "Do you have glamours turned off?". There is no downside to adding a toggle. It lets people turn off outfits that they do not want to do/immersion breaking/flat out silly and just show their gear while also letting people who want to still glam this way glam that way without ever knowing someone else doesn't see it.

If the glams are for you then why do they need to be seen by other people? If they could choose to see you in leveling gear instead how does that hurt you? Unless the only reason you play is to shove your half naked character in front of other people constantly like it's a fetish. It's not a fetish thing right?

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Okay, good for them. It doesn't bother me if people care or not. Doesn't change that I still want to choose how my characters look for both myself and to other players, and the option to disable other people's glamours invalidates my choice for how I want to present my characters. I'm not fond of some of the more ridiculous glamours some people come up with, but I'm not so thin skinned about it that I'm unable to accept that it's just part of the game and look past it. In the grand scheme, it's really not that big of a deal and doesn't upset me if someone wants to dress up their Roe in nothing but a chocobo mask and thong, for example. If anything, seeing someone wearing an over the top ridiculous glam just gives me some insight about the player behind the character and whether or not I'd want to interact with them.

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It's not disabling your glamour. You can still glamour however you want, just certain people won't see it. Only the person who has the toggle on will be affected, not you or anyone else.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

I don't do Savage or Ultimate content, but the difference is that I don't whine and moan about it existing because it doesn't personally cater to my personal preferences. I fully accept that it's not something I enjoy spending my time doing in game, and I instead focus on the things in game that I do enjoy. Just the same, not everyone's personal glam is going to be my cup of tea, but I'm not going to whine about it if they choose to make their character look ridiculous.

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The difference being that you can actively avoid Savage or Ultimate content by just not selecting it, however, you can't avoid people wearing gaudy, obnoxious glamours.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

If you're going to pull out the 'but client mods' argument, then let me instead ask why haven't you just modded your client to swap out ridiculous items with bland items? If you consider it a valid solution and the issue really bothers you so much, then there you go that's your solution. And no, I'm not advocating for breaking the ToS, just pointing out how moot your argument is.

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Modding is against the ToS. It's not moot to point out that people are already actively changing your appearance without your knowledge and it having no effect on your play. you're aware of this yet not crying fowl.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Once again, for the millionth time, this would not remove people's ability to wear what they want.

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But it is dictating what others are wearing on your screen, thus allowing you censor certain people you find "gaudy", "fetishized", "sexual", and "immersion-breaking". ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Holy fucking shit what a disingenuous argumrnt
Console players cant mod their game
Is that not good enough reason to add this feature now?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

But it is dictating what others are wearing on your screen, thus allowing you censor certain people you find "gaudy", "fetishized", "sexual", and "immersion-breaking". ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Ok, and? It doesn't matter the reason behind why someone would use it. It doesn't affect you in any way.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

But it is dictating what others are wearing on your screen, thus allowing you censor certain people you find "gaudy", "fetishized", "sexual", and "immersion-breaking". ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Why is it a bad thing to let people decide if they want to consent to being a part of what very well may be a kink or fetish for another player?

I don't really understand this, people would still be walking around with '' immersion breaking/bad '' outfits even if you turned glamours off.

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Originally Posted by Joven

It's not disabling your glamour. You can still glamour however you want, just certain people won't see it. Only the person who has the toggle on will be affected, not you or anyone else.

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Semantics. It's not technically disabling my glamour in its entirety, but it would effectively be invalidating the purpose of the glamour system by giving players the option to circumvent it. Ergo, in the spirit of the intent of the glamour system, it's effectively disabling it.

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Originally Posted by Joven

The difference being that you can actively avoid Savage or Ultimate content by just not selecting it, however, you can't avoid people wearing gaudy, obnoxious glamours.

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But I can't avoid that other players can get higher ilevel items, or cosmetics, mounts, etc, from said content that I won't have the opportunity to obtain. Still impacts me, but I choose not to get upset up about it.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Modding is against the ToS. It's not moot to point out that people are already actively changing your appearance without your knowledge and it having no effect on your play. you're aware of this yet not crying fowl.

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So are you arguing for or against modding? Because on the one hand you're saying it's not a valid solution for you because it's against the ToS, while simultaneously trying to discredit my position by saying modding exists and some people do it. I said I dislike that people are doing it, and ideally I would prefer if they didn't. They're choosing to break the ToS by engaging in client modding, and running the risk of having their account actioned for it.

You know, I'd consider accepting people having the choice to disable seeing other people's glamours, if they also added the option for everyone else to display people who had that option turned on to appear as an amorphous grey blob.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Okay, good for them. It doesn't bother me if people care or not. Doesn't change that I still want to choose how my characters look for both myself and to other players, and the option to disable other people's glamours invalidates my choice for how I want to present my characters. I'm not fond of some of the more ridiculous glamours some people come up with, but I'm not so thin skinned about it that I'm unable to accept that it's just part of the game and look past it. In the grand scheme, it's really not that big of a deal and doesn't upset me if someone wants to dress up their Roe in nothing but a chocobo mask and thong, for example. If anything, seeing someone wearing an over the top ridiculous glam just gives me some insight about the player behind the character and whether or not I'd want to interact with them.



I don't do Savage or Ultimate content, but the difference is that I don't whine and moan about it existing because it doesn't personally cater to my personal preferences. I fully accept that it's not something I enjoy spending my time doing in game, and I instead focus on the things in game that I do enjoy. Just the same, not everyone's personal glam is going to be my cup of tea, but I'm not going to whine about it if they choose to make their character look ridiculous.



If you're going to pull out the 'but client mods' argument, then let me instead ask why haven't you just modded your client to swap out ridiculous items with bland items? If you consider it a valid solution and the issue really bothers you so much, then there you go that's your solution. And no, I'm not advocating for breaking the ToS, just pointing out how moot your argument is.

But for the record, I dislike that other players can and do use clothing swap mods which can break the aesthetic look I'm trying to present for my characters. Also, trying to reframe my personal preference as a 'fear' is a disingenuous attempt to invalidate my position by trying to portray it as irrational.

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Oh I have as I stated many times, I have found my solution. That said you really have not answered the core question, if you don't know, only way it bothers you is if you assume someone is using it. You are missing the point of my argument. This is legit one of those cases of what you don't know cannot hurt you.

I have my fix and it is great BTW, tad buggy at times but overall has greatly improved my experience.

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

I don't really understand this, people would still be walking around with '' immersion breaking/bad '' outfits even if you turned glamours off.

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True, the fabled trolls would simply equip the gear directly instead of glamouring it onto something. Same for people who care enough about how other people see them.
It doesn't matter that they're wearing lvl.1 gear as long as they're not in duty.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Oh I have as I stated many times, I have found my solution. That said you really have not answered the core question, if you don't know, only way it bothers you is if you assume someone is using it. You are missing the point of my argument. This is legit one of those cases of what you don't know cannot hurt you.

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As to how it hurts me? It doesn't specifically hurt me, but it does detract the enjoyment of making glamours knowing that other players might not see it. And yeah, this is literally just an issue of people's preferences. I prefer my characters be seen a certain way by other players, you prefer not to see other player's characters the way they wish to be seen. The difference is that this is an MMORPG, and part of an MMORPG is the social aspect of it. How we choose to present our characters is part of the social aspect of it, which SE very obviously is aware of and supports for the fact that the glamour system exists to begin with. Furthermore, the adventure plate and instant portraits are yet again another affirmation that how we as players choose to convey our characters to other players has an inherent value to it.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

I have my fix and it is great BTW, tad buggy at times but overall has greatly improved my experience.

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Good for you, I'm glad you're living your best life. Probably not the smartest idea to openly insinuate to modding the client on the official forums though.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Semantics. It's not technically disabling my glamour in its entirety, but it would effectively be invalidating the purpose of the glamour system by giving players the option to circumvent it. Ergo, in the spirit of the intent of the glamour system, it's effectively disabling it.

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It's not invalidating anything. People regularly don't care about or use glamours. Does that invalidate the system? No.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

But I can't avoid that other players can get higher ilevel items, or cosmetics, mounts, etc, from said content that I won't have the opportunity to obtain. Still impacts me, but I choose not to get upset up about it.

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But you always have the option to participate or not. Unsync-ing is a thing. I've gotten several mounts and minions from unsync-ed Savage. Don't care for doing it sync-ed

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Originally Posted by Xylira

So are you arguing for or against modding? Because on the one hand you're saying it's not a valid solution for you because it's against the ToS, while simultaneously trying to discredit my position by saying modding exists and some people do it. I said I dislike that people are doing it, and ideally I would prefer if they didn't. They're choosing to break the ToS by engaging in client modding, and running the risk of having their account actioned for it.

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Personally I don't care if people want to mod so long as it doesn't affect my experience, which it doesn't. That being said, it's not a viable option for those who don't wish to put their accounts at risk. If someone doesn't mind the risk, more power to them.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

You know, I'd consider accepting people having the choice to disable seeing other people's glamours, if they also added the option for everyone else to display people who had that option turned on to appear as an amorphous grey blob.

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While that would be fine it is kind of a petty thing to have to know if someone is using the option or not. The whole purpose is so that you don't know who is using it. Does the fact that you can't be the center of attention bother you that much?

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

I don't really understand this, people would still be walking around with '' immersion breaking/bad '' outfits even if you turned glamours off.

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Which is why the suggestion is to put everyone in at-level tome gear.

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Originally Posted by Estecka

True, the fabled trolls would simply equip the gear directly instead of glamouring it onto something. Same for people who care enough about how other people see them.
It doesn't matter that they're wearing lvl.1 gear as long as they're not in duty.

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Pretty much what I thought. It'd just become part of Limsa/RP/trolling/idling culture to always have an outfit at hand that'll bypass all the '' no glamours '' people.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Ok, and? It doesn't matter the reason behind why someone would use it. It doesn't affect you in any way.

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Because your censoring people, not their words or action but them. Sanitizing them.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Why is it a bad thing to let people decide if they want to consent to being a part of what very well may be a kink or fetish for another player?

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Why does it always have to be about sex with you virtue-fighting-wannabes? Maybe people just find those types of clothing aesthetically and/or visual nice? Or maybe they're exploring fashion options that they can't/feel like they can't IRL? (´꒳`∗)

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Originally Posted by Joven

It's not invalidating anything. People regularly don't care about or use glamours. Does that invalidate the system? No.

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FFXIV is an MMORPG, which a large part of the point of an MMORPG is the social aspects. The glamour system adds value to the social aspect of the game by giving players ways to better express themselves through their characters. SE is very aware of this, it's the whole reason why Adventure plates and Instant Portraits were even added to the game, as they're yet another way for players to express themselves and better leverage the social aspect of the game.

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Originally Posted by Joven

But you always have the option to participate or not. Unsync-ing is a thing. I've gotten several mounts and minions from unsync-ed Savage. Don't care for doing it sync-ed

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You have the option to not get upset about something unimportant, or to just play something different that better caters to your delicate sensibilities and narrow definition of 'appropriate aesthetics'.

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Originally Posted by Joven

While that would be fine it is kind of a petty thing to have to know if someone is using the option or not. The whole purpose is so that you don't know who is using it. Does the fact that you can't be the center of attention bother you that much?

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Nice ad hominem thrown in there. I honestly really just kind of feel bad for you that other players choosing how their characters look is so distressing. Maybe MMORPGs aren't your thing.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Because your censoring people, not their words or action but them. Sanitizing them.

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It's not though as it's only on the one person's screen. Why do you feel like you get to dictate what others see on their own screen?

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Originally Posted by Joven

Which is why the suggestion is to put everyone in at-level tome gear.

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I would at least like to have an option to choose from a set of available IMMERSIVE, CLEAN, SAFE AND FAMILY FRIENDLY gear sets that are approved by the official '' I am offended by 2B leggings, bikinis, frogs and hrothgars in dresses '' sanitation bureau.

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Originally Posted by Joven

It's not though as it's only on the one person's screen. Why do you feel like you get to dictate what others see on their own screen?

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I'm not, SE is and this is their game after all.
If you don't like the visuals SE are presenting, you know what M-letter word I'm going to suggest to you. (✿´ ꒳ ` )

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Originally Posted by Xylira

As to how it hurts me? It doesn't specifically hurt me, but it does detract the enjoyment of making glamours knowing that other players might not see it. And yeah, this is literally just an issue of people's preferences. I prefer my characters be seen a certain way by other players, you prefer not to see other player's characters the way they wish to be seen. The difference is that this is an MMORPG, and part of an MMORPG is the social aspect of it. How we choose to present our characters is part of the social aspect of it, which SE very obviously is aware of and supports for the fact that the glamour system exists to begin with. Furthermore, the adventure plate and instant portraits are yet again another affirmation that how we as players choose to convey our characters to other players has an inherent value to it.



Good for you, I'm glad you're living your best life. Probably not the smartest idea to openly insinuate to modding the client on the official forums though.

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As I mentioned though this would be 100% an optional feature so in theory based off your perception you can simply choose to live in a world where you feel as if no one is using the feature. Sort of how I assume you do know knowing full well mods exist that can already alter your character. Only difference is the availability of it. Just like people say I could just choose to ignore it in practice that can be said. You can choose to ignore the fact it exists and pretend no one uses it.

Not good at conveying it but I hope you understand what I am saying. Overall for the said against this feature not much in practice changes for you if unless you choose to believe people running around are using it so to speak.

If SE wanted to ban me they could just throw a dart and a board and find something, if it happens it happens.

I don't see why this would be a problem. They get what they want...for whatever reason that may be and it wouldn't effect the rest of us in any way, shape, or form.

I say let them have that ability.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I don't see why this would be a problem. They get what they want...for whatever reason that may be and it wouldn't effect the rest of us in any way, shape, or form.

I say let them have that ability.

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Thing is people are saying at the core the mere idea of someone not seeing their fashion choices infringes of their own personal enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

As I mentioned though this would be 100% an optional feature so in theory based off your perception you can simply choose to live in a world where you feel as if no one is using the feature. Sort of how I assume you do know knowing full well mods exist that can already alter your character. Only difference is the availability of it. Just like people say I could just choose to ignore it in practice that can be said. You can choose to ignore the fact it exists and pretend no one uses it.

Not good at conveying it but I hope you understand what I am saying. Overall for the said against this feature not much in practice changes for you if unless you choose to believe people running around are using it so to speak.

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Sorry, but I'd still rather SE not waste development time adding a feature that detracts from the social aspect of the game. I wouldn't throw a fit if they added it, but I just don't see it being more positive than negative overall. Glamours exist for a reason, and if it was meant for only you to see your own glamours, then that's how SE would have implemented the system from the get go. You're also assuming that adding such a feature would even be a simple implementation. With how notoriously spaghetti coded the game is, it's likely not nearly as simple as you're assuming and could likely entail a massive amount of time to get working. Just look at the mess the instant portrait system has been with just getting it to work properly with glamours changing even slightly, and that's building something additional into the game, not modifying a fundamental system that's been baked in and referenced by several other aspects of the game at this point.

Small indie company, please understand.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Thing is people are saying at the core the mere idea of someone not seeing their fashion choices infringes of their own personal enjoyment.

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Well they need to treat the fact they are blocking other people's glamour much like using 3rd party tools. Just don't say anything and no one will be the offended.

They could just allow people to mod other players' glams away. Then there would be no need to cobble together their own feature.