One to Fifty, One Zone - Long OP

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Originally Posted by Sorel

True. One of the main issues with FFXI was the grind-factor involved, no doubt. We're in agreement on that. But that was a flaw of the entire game, not a particular zone.

What were talking about is the visual design of zones themselves, the placement of the monsters in that zone, and what those monsters are ... not how many monsters we need to grind for us to move on to the next zone. That is a related subject, but that's not what we are talking about in this thread ... and not what we're talking about when we recount the sense of newness, inspiration, and fear when we arrived in a new area in FFXI.

Perfect example ... The Boyahda Tree. Saying that it's a giant tree that monsters live in that you grind simply doesn't do the amazing design of that area justice. It's a tree that's so big it has rivers, waterfalls and other trees growing inside it! And those waterfalls are not just eye-candy. There are no invisible walls protecting you from sliding down one and ending up someplace you have no business being.

That's a well-designed area. It's fun to play in, not boring to look at, and it's uncompromisingly lethal if you go looking for trouble. That's what we would like to see more of in FFXIV regions.

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Don't forget that a dragon lives at the top of the tree. Man I need to revisit that zone. The whole zi'tah/ro'maeve/boyahda area is awesome.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

True. One of the main issues with FFXI was the grind-factor involved, no doubt. We're in agreement on that. But that was a flaw of the entire game, not a particular zone.

What were talking about is the visual design of zones themselves, the placement of the monsters in that zone, and what those monsters are ... not how many monsters we need to grind for us to move on to the next zone. That is a related subject, but that's not what we are talking about in this thread ... and not what we're talking about when we recount the sense of newness, inspiration, and fear when we arrived in a new area in FFXI.

Perfect example ... The Boyahda Tree. Saying that it's a giant tree that monsters live in that you grind simply doesn't do the amazing design of that area justice. It's a tree that's so big it has rivers, waterfalls and other trees growing inside it! And those waterfalls are not just eye-candy. There are no invisible walls protecting you from sliding down one and ending up someplace you have no business being.

That's a well-designed area. It's fun to play in, not boring to look at, and it's uncompromisingly lethal if you go looking for trouble. That's what we would like to see more of in FFXIV regions.

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Well put. If they added in a good grind mechanic like SP chains while also retaining leves, I think it would be a good balance. One or the other doesn't really work. Leves work nice for quick SP regardless of how boring they are but what do you do once you find your 8 leves? Wait 36 hours until they reset so you can SP again? Having a decent SP chain system to provide decent SP/hr would be nice to have so you could work on other classes as well. This tied to of course some kinda diversity in the game 'zones' and of course a reworked combat system that doesn't put you to sleep while you kill mobs in 20s. The grind atm is pretty much kill efts or kill raptors in two or three different areas from 30 > 50. I'll stick to crafting while watching more tv.

Beautifully described, Sorel. :)

This thread certainly isn't asking for changes in any of the battle mechanics. Though minor conversation pops up once in a while, it's definitely not the heart of this thread. What this thread really represents and asks for is merely any information on the future for our bloated, empty, directionless, soulless maps. Zones that take us nowhere and appear to be floating in space, connecting to each other as an afterthought. Zones that provide no sense of adventure or progression. Zones that have mobs from 1 to 99 right outside the city walls.


Thanks again for the overwhelming support for this topic, everyone. Realizing this issue is just as important and strong to others, I truly wanted to bring this to the attention of the reps. And we really spoke out, with 75 pages, 26,000+views, 250+ likes, and 730+ replies. Based on history, they seem to focus on 2-7 page threads.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

True. One of the main issues with FFXI was the grind-factor involved, no doubt. We're in agreement on that. But that was a flaw of the entire game, not a particular zone.

What were talking about is the visual design of zones themselves, the placement of the monsters in that zone, and what those monsters are ... not how many monsters we need to grind for us to move on to the next zone. That is a related subject, but that's not what we are talking about in this thread ... and not what we're talking about when we recount the sense of newness, inspiration, and fear when we arrived in a new area in FFXI.

Perfect example ... The Boyahda Tree. Saying that it's a giant tree that monsters live in that you grind simply doesn't do the amazing design of that area justice. It's a tree that's so big it has rivers, waterfalls and other trees growing inside it! And those waterfalls are not just eye-candy. There are no invisible walls protecting you from sliding down one and ending up someplace you have no business being.

That's a well-designed area. It's fun to play in, not boring to look at, and it's uncompromisingly lethal if you go looking for trouble. That's what we would like to see more of in FFXIV regions.

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I know you love romanticising areas based on what you apparently VERY vaguely remember (I can't imagine you've visited that zone recently), but Boyahda isn't what I would describe as a well-designed zone at all. It's just a bunch of caves, the supposed context that you're in a giant tree makes no difference when it's just a bigger version of crawlers nest that's a bit less annoying to navigate. Nothing about that place suggests good design.
If you want to slide down...things, Ulegurand Range had that huge hill to do it with, if that's your idea of good design.

If you want to talk about good design, why not think about the gorgeous and consistently unique and interesting ToAU zones? The undersea ruins were pretty amazing. Or even the CoP zones? The promyvion zones were so creepy and had such character, Tu'Lia was just awesome.

But Boyahda? God I hated that place.

Edit: Or even the WoTG zones, Vunkerl Inlet was possibly the nicest outdoor zone added with that sort of meadow-y look to it.

I loved climbing up to the top of Ulegurand for no other reason than to toss myself over the cliff.

Or Caedarva Mire, and my first encounter with a Chigoe. The ones in this game are good, but nothing compared to XI's chigoes.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

If you want to talk about good design, why not think about the gorgeous and consistently unique and interesting ToAU zones? The undersea ruins were pretty amazing. Or even the CoP zones? The promyvion zones were so creepy and had such character, Tu'Lia was just awesome.

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Now you are getting into the spirit! :D

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IFFXIV has many a fault, and I am prone to pointing them out, but the last thing the game needs is another Dunes (I mean, we already have a DunesFOLK). Nor does it need another quifim.

The reason I say this is because grinding is boring!

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I'm sorry but I don't see how XIV is any different in the grind department. You grind the same Chitinous Coblyns, Dusty Mongrels, Fellbite Peistes, Ill-tempered Pterocs and Ravenous Billygoats in the same 4 leves from R30-50. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. If that isn't bad enough they don't even give you the option to grind them as long as you want to, you are stuck with a levequest telling you when you have to finish.

A grind is a grind is a grind is a grind...is a grind wrapped inside of a grind hey we heard you liked grinds so we got you a grind for your grind so you can grind up your grind.

The game could use some other sources of "grinding". It is in heavy need of more options. Give us quest hubs to grind (they are), give us exp mobs to chain (they are) and try and make the leve system not gay (they are).

either way it seems to just come down to size tbh. The zone in FFXI were big, but no so big and not so over used that you just got utterly sick of them (though bringing as many sub jobs through a place like the dunes might wear you out on them, but its still not a bad zone in any way) All in all id much rather 1/3 of the zone size with more variety then whats really the same thing repeated to death. Imagine if a couple years from now and you on your 5+ job and you just end up doing the same tiresome leves through the same few oversized zones...man that would make my head explode. The only saving grace is anima and being able to skip over running to it....and still it barely helps.

Either give us giant zones that transition to new types of areas ex: from uldah to the boat, the closer you get to it, the more green and water you see, mini oasis pop up more and more, palm tress start coming in..ect

or make the zones much smaller and gives us a bunch. The only other game i remember that had a MASSIVE seamless world was Vanguard...and that didnt end up working out so well.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

^ thats what FFXI didnt get right...well nor has any MMO at this point, balancing quest play and grinding well enough so that each is good enough to do. Im not a fan of just doing one or the other, but so far this game has made it a point to say "do leve's and behest" because they are FAR superior to normal grind partys. The fact that the leves are mostly all the same dont help much either.

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I agree with the balancing of grinding and quest is a must. This gives a player options instead of just being forced to do one thing.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Or Caedarva Mire, and my first encounter with a Chigoe. The ones in this game are good, but nothing compared to XI's chigoes.

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Yeah, XI's were much better. I think we all had times when we were just passing through and didn't notice them until they're sucking on our blood. Tiny little blighters didn't half keep you on your toes.