"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

Pulling mobs is not a role.

Not everyone likes to RP.

Everyone in a party is important. Equialy.

If you don't enjoy the game - don't play it. Find yourself something else.

No one hates DF. People are tired from same duties playing this game for a decade. Dungeons are not engaging.

Explain "speedrunning". If you mean this from a standpoint of RP, then no, walking through a dungeon is not interesting to everyone.

Not everyone has a lot of time to play the game.

It's not astrophysics.

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And who then has time for the game and he wants to play it. Why does a person who is in a hurry consider his time more important than people who are not in a hurry? This is an equal thing.

That's your opinion. My opinion is that the tank is an important role and I am ready to accept this when playing other roles. I like to think so.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Snipping.

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Pretty simple, you can ask if she's having any problems with the internet or lag, and aside from this, lag is fairly easy to spot if you're observant enough when walking from pull to pull. Going to the pace of the majority is perfectly fine, provided it doesn't result in uncooperative behavior or something that could turn 'ugly', for lack of a better term. However, on the other hand, there is some onus on this player to specify that they are lagging and it may have an impact on what they're able to do. - I've had this in the past, and where I've communicated it, people have been perfectly fine with it in the past. If all you do is stick in silence then the only thing that arises from it is assumptions and more oft' than not, people are inclined to assume the worst.

Personally, I'm more of a neutral player in any given run, and generally, I'll only act if a person has been disconnected for an extended period of time before doing a vote kick. I've only been put into that position a couple of times. The problem with toxic behavior is that some people who do it are just generally pretty ignorant of the fact they're doing it until they receive pretty significant backlash for it - There was a content creator back in Stormblood/Shadowbringers who I am pretty sure full under this category initially.

There are those who are fully aware of it, and use it as an opportunity to go full force with it - Irrespective of the circumstance that may have caused it, and any innocence therein. In this regard, a lot of the community is absolutely rife with this behavior.

That said, you would also do well to remember that whilst people on this forum like to weaponize the Terms of Service and Prohibited Behaviour documents, many of them only do so out of a desire to win the argument, and most people who weaponize the Terms of Service, don't actually read them in the first place.

Instead of YPYT you suddenly have someone knock on the door. Or the cat dropped something. For example, a vase with water and the water will now touch the wire.)

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

alrighty for you folks who feel like the majority should dictate the pace. Scenerio time: a crack endgame paladin is having lag issues due to internet provider but still in a run. 3 of you decide you want a quick run but she isn't able to perform the same as you are with better internet. Would you become toxic in chat towards them, would you report them for breach of tos?

Please tell me what you would do. Im curious

now lets analyze that scenerio. you folks have no prior knowledge of her lag issues. probably go into each run thinking everyone is on better internet although theres people in the country who play on farmervision lol. So with no prior knowledge you don't know nor realize but the toxic behavior is still present in you. 3 of you want a quick run so don't care. might even report the tank although her only issue is lag slowing her down so she trying her best.

Now let me reveal something. In that scenerio is a tank friend of mine. she is cracked on paladin but since she moved to the country is on starlink and sometimes has lag issues. I seen this first hand in a expert run with her where she was just doing single mob pulls. i seen the other two party members want to run ahead but they quickly figured out the pace of the tank and we still got the run done lol. i'm not saying that lag is the reason for every tank or healer but without knowledge what would you all have done had you got into a run with her and she just happened to be lagging? with none of this knowledge would you folks still have reported and been toxic towards her although she is innocent?

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You can see when someone is having internet issues. They get the disconnect symbol beside them briefly, they rubber band, they take forever to load into duties. And usually they have enough self-awareness to let the party know that they are having lag issues. People are very understanding of that. I have never seen people get hostile over someone lagging. Pull ahead, sure? But be hostile? Nah.

And considering I played with a lot of OCE players before the OCE servers existed, they can manage just fine on high ping. Disconnect for a few seconds here or there, get hit by a few more mechanics than someone with better internet. But I've never heard of someone single pulling because of their internet. That honestly doesn't make sense. If your friend is capable of completing the duty with her lag issues, she is capable of double pulling. /shrug

The only time I will report a tank for single pulling is if they have the YPYT mentality and let people die for not letting them be the "leader". I don't know how you got it so twisted as to think people just report tanks left and right for single pulling.

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Originally Posted by Kyasunshine

And who then has time for the game and he wants to play it. Why does a person who is in a hurry consider his time more important than people who are not in a hurry? This is an equal thing.

That's your opinion. My opinion is that the tank is an important role and I am ready to accept this when playing other roles. I like to think so.

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So me telling you that everyone is important means it's only my opinion and only tank is important.
Did I get it right?

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Originally Posted by Kyasunshine

Instead of YPYT you suddenly have someone knock on the door. Or the cat dropped something. For example, a vase with water and the water will now touch the wire.)

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Things happen in life and people are usually pretty good at responding to it. Someone knocks on the door tends to get a single message in chat "one sec gotta get the door". Gotta go to the bathroom "bio sorry". Something occurs that you have to immediately stop playing? Well I've had that too and when the person came back they apologized and gave a very basic statement that they needed to stop and kept playing or just straight up left. It's a very simple thing really and I would never hold it against someone for having irl things happen during gameplay. It happens to all of us.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

So me telling you that everyone is important means it's only my opinion and only tank is important.
Did I get it right?

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No. It's just a subtlety of feeling. Objectively, everyone is important. But subjectively, everyone thinks differently. I have expressed my feelings above. And I don't mind if a lot of tanks think the same way. Being a tank is being someone to protect. DPS or a Healer who takes 1 hit from the mob he has aggroed destroys this atmosphere. I don't like that.

If you are tired of DF, this is the problem of the one who is tired of it. I love DF and I'm not bored. I get bored when people start speedrunning things. Treating them like something that they are tired of, soullessly. This mood spreads over me.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Things happen in life and people are usually pretty good at responding to it. Someone knocks on the door tends to get a single message in chat "one sec gotta get the door". Gotta go to the bathroom "bio sorry". Something occurs that you have to immediately stop playing? Well I've had that too and when the person came back they apologized and gave a very basic statement that they needed to stop and kept playing or just straight up left. It's a very simple thing really and I would never hold it against someone for having irl things happen during gameplay. It happens to all of us.

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No. I mean that it is not necessary to openly declare YTYP. It's just that during such cases, another ... case may happen)

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Originally Posted by Kyasunshine

No. It's just a subtlety of feeling. Objectively, everyone is important. But subjectively, everyone thinks differently. I have expressed my feelings above. And I don't mind if a lot of tanks think the same way. Being a tank is being someone to protect. DPS or a Healer who takes 1 hit from the mob he has aggroed destroys this atmosphere. I don't like that.

If you are tired of DF, this is the problem of the one who is tired of it. I love DF and I'm not bored. I get bored when people start speedrunning things. Treating them like something that they are tired of, soullessly. This mood spreads over me.

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Sometimes it's not about you.
So you love DF but get bored when people pull 2 packs instead of one. Got it.

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Originally Posted by Kyasunshine

Instead of YPYT you suddenly have someone knock on the door. Or the cat dropped something. For example, a vase with water and the water will now touch the wire.)

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If someone knocks on your door, have the courtesy of shooting a quick "brb".

As for the wire, that's a pretty bizarre scenario but in the unlikely situation that your electrical circuits got fried from your cat spilling water and you lost all power to whatever medium you are playing this game on, you will disconnect. And people will see you disconnected. And when you don't come back within a few minutes, you will get kicked and people will move on.

Not everyone is report happy. Not everyone jumps the gun on making horrible assumptions. People are generally pretty good at reading the room. So if you have no previous attitude or what have you, and you randomly start lagging and disconnect, no one is going to get mad.

Though, some people may get annoyed if you can't be bothered to give them enough courtesy to quickly say brb before answering the door.