VIERA AND HROTHGAR COMPLAINT MEGATHREAD

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

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Story opinion is subjective. Myself and many others thought it was the worst story in the history of 14. Content wise though…

They literally gave us one less dungeon set of gear this expansion. All but 1 or 2 crafter and gatherer sets are all reused. Only 2 unique dungeon sets for battle jobs and the sets they reused for the other dungeons, some of them they couldn’t even make dyable.

Island sanctuary we were told by yoshi p himself not to expect too much. At this point i’m expecting it to be a little instance where you can watch minions run around and nothing more.

Deep dungeon and hildy returning are good, but seeing as the content isn’t even out yet, hard to comment on how well done it is. But the fact they can’t even properly give out more than 6 hairstyles after THREE WHOLE YEARS is pretty telling. The whole job balance being the shittiest it’s ever been is just the cherry on top though.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

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I'm reserving judgement for the next story arcs, but I've been talking about quality declining for awhile, especially this expansion. They cut off racial features on Reaper, after - I'm pretty sure - saying there would be unique looks for it, gear in general, capes, clipping, etc.. Then one of the first things, that has been anticipated for years for hrothgar, is of this quality. I wasn't happy with the quality of the viera hairs either, but what they did to hrothgar is on another level.

On top of that, I have heard a lot of their top devs have been being moved off the FFXIV team. I really don't know about the future quality of this game.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

Bold of you to assume that I was talking specifically to you or anyone. There's been a lot of BS requests on this forum like: change elezen into wow elves, make male viera into a kid, loporrit, etc.

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Calm down, man. No one talked about "SE NEED TO DO THIS RIGH NOW!" (except for Hats and Hair) in this topic specifically. We are just complaining and saying "What if..."
They can't hurt you here. Playable Elezen child don't exist, and will never exist, as viera tails, loporrits, and WoW races.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'm reserving judgement for the next story arcs, but I've been talking about quality declining for awhile, especially this expansion. They cut off racial features on Reaper, after - I'm pretty sure - saying there would be unique looks for it, gear in general, capes, clipping, etc.. Then one of the first things, that has been anticipated for years for hrothgar, is of this quality. I wasn't happy with the quality of the viera hairs either, but what they did to hrothgar is on another level.

On top of that, I have heard a lot of their top devs have been being moved off the FFXIV team. I really don't know about the future quality of this game.

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I’ve been saying it as well and have been constantly attacked for it but…it’s like after this idk how many more signs people need. In regards to your reaper comment though you are correct. Yoshi P stated originally that the avatar form would differentiate based on your race. Looks like that was yet another lie.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'm reserving judgement for the next story arcs, but I've been talking about quality declining for awhile, especially this expansion. They cut off racial features on Reaper, after - I'm pretty sure - saying there would be unique looks for it, gear in general, capes, clipping, etc.. Then one of the first things, that has been anticipated for years for hrothgar, is of this quality. I wasn't happy with the quality of the viera hairs either, but what they did to hrothgar is on another level.

On top of that, I have heard a lot of their top devs have been being moved off the FFXIV team. I really don't know about the future quality of this game.

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I agree with you. I too noticed the quality decaying. But the last part afraids me. They said something about why this decision was made?

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

I agree with you. I too noticed the quality decaying. But the last part afraids me. They said something about why this decision was made?

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I think they are being moved/promoted to work on the next FF game or something. I'm not really in the know.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think they are being moved/promoted to work on the next FF game or something. I'm not really in the know.

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Most of the team responsible for HW was moved to ff16 afaik, along with Yoshi also working on 16 and i believe Koji as well.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

I agree with the quality of the game improving, as I think I said, either here or on other platforms. Everything they showed (excluding the Hrothgar hair) was amazing and definitely needed. And I don't get why recoloured armour sets are a problem to be honest, with how much content we got, I think it's fine if they recolour some assets.

Sorry, I am not accustomed to the "Monkey's paw" can someone explain it to me? I tried typing it on Google but it shows me pictures of monkey hands.

In regards to the last statement: 1. Attacking players for an opinion they have (even if it is a stupid one) should not be a thing. I didn't know or care about Viera as a race up until Shadowbringers. Now I know they exist. And I do think they should have made Viera as they did with Ronso. Get the original concept and change it. Aka adding "pretty bunny women", they could still add the males and keep it lore-friendly cause this ain't Viera this is a new race so males are not that rare.
2. Arguing with emotional people that are invested in the subject might be a hard task but not impossible. Just listen to their thoughts and take them into consideration. But don't do 1 to 1 what they said. Your job as a designer is to listen to feedback and find a middle ground. It might be upsetting when people get up in arms about a subject and attack you cause you are the designer, but this just comes with the territory and you need to know how to handle it. I am not saying it's a good thing but it is expected when you work with humans, we are emotional creatures and some are less emotionally mature to handle a subject than others.

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They recolor gear all the time for dngs, so IDK who has a problem with that.

As for the Monkey's Paw, being Monkey's Pawed is wishing for something without thinking of all the possible outcomes and regretting it when it bites you in the buttz.

For #1. I didn't attack anyone. FF14 was the first and only FF game I ever played, I came to these forums back in ARR days begging loudly for Viera simply because I knew of Fran at the time and I figured Viera would make for some pretty, tall, Black women. I know that was my only thought process, and I wouldn't have cared if they had made something "kinda like Viera" that could actually work limits free in this game. That's what I see when people talk about wishing they had tails (which Viera never had) but NOT asking for the gangly limbs or long spidery claw hands or pinched faces they often have. And people wanted Lupin, so YP already screwed that up for most of the people asking for "beast race".

For #2. I didn't say you can't argue with emotional people, just that the devs should know that people are emotional beings and asking them to "please understand" why this is happening was never going to work. Not unless he sits down and in plan language break it down for people. I have a background in games and 3D modeling/ animation, I get why certain things are happening, and I've been able to foresee a lot of events because of this. Most people will not see things that way.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Story opinion is subjective. Myself and many others thought it was the worst story in the history of 14. Content wise though…

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I really don't care if you liked the story or hated every part of it, your enjoyment of the story is subjective but "quality" can be seen with clear, objective examples. From the amount of VOs to the amount of unique character animations to the cam work/ cinematography to the length of it in hours to complete. From the care put into character's physically interacting with each other and the objects in the world, to the use of new features like the "fallow along" bits to increase immersion. Hell, the WoL actually uses their weapon to attack in a few cut scenes. It's clear that this is a jump in quality over 5.0, which was a jump from 4.0 and so on.

To put it simply, I didn't enjoy Man of Steel, but it would be silly of me to act like it wasn't a visually impressive movie and the best looking live action Superman film by miles when it came out.

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They literally gave us one less dungeon set of gear this expansion. All but 1 or 2 crafter and gatherer sets are all reused. Only 2 unique dungeon sets for battle jobs and the sets they reused for the other dungeons, some of them they couldn’t even make dyable.

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Oh NOOOOOO! How will my full glam dresser ever recover?!? D:
Anyway, they reuse sets all the time ... and they were working on the genders. Did you forget that bit? That they released yet another race gender? That YP said they were basically at their limit for the amount of character models they could support and maintain the amount of stuff they do in a timely matter BEFORE EW? Perhaps Male Viera and Female Hrothgar result in them reusing more glam, and they felt it would be an acceptable trade-off? Perhaps they're focusing more on prepping the Graphics update and updating past favs?

Who knows. Not really a big deal in my book, given we know of a LOT of good things that can be drawing attention away from making a new set here or there.

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Island sanctuary we were told by yoshi p himself not to expect too much. At this point i’m expecting it to be a little instance where you can watch minions run around and nothing more.

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Your assumption of what you can do in it isn't the point, it's a brand-new thing being added to the game for people to enjoy. Adding new optional content is not a sign of a decrease in quality.

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Deep dungeon and hildy returning are good, but seeing as the content isn’t even out yet, hard to comment on how well done it is. But the fact they can’t even properly give out more than 6 hairstyles after THREE WHOLE YEARS is pretty telling. The whole job balance being the shittiest it’s ever been is just the cherry on top though.

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We are literally at the start of the expac, if you want to say something about the quality right now you have to also account for the things we know to be coming or simply compare 6.0 to 5.0 and nothing else. (Also, they take 2-3 years to release 6-8 hairstyles for normal races. They're doing all that AND releasing new race characters at the same time. 6.1 release will spotlight their efforts more imo)

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

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You are absolutely right with everything you're saying. Basically people are mad at job changes and hrothgar hairstyles and the rest is subjective opinions of stuff that was also present in shb (like gear recolors) and also ignoring everything good that was added and quality improvements as "expected thus nothing special" just so they can pretend their point of view won. The patches aren't even out, we don't know the quality of future content, so you're already expecting it to be worse because you want to make up invented reasons as to how it's bad and will get worse. Like or hate the story, it's subjective, but the quality of the assets and presentation like mentioned above improved over shb. Also, with them remaking old dungeons entirely for them to have better quality and the way they'll improve the graphics massively next expansion, you really have no grounds at all to say it's going down. It's only getting better, and those are facts. I like how you dismissed a whole new residential district and new plots as "still a bad sysyem lol so it sucks".


It's really been a trend to think the game is getting worse, I've seen a lot of youtubers making videos like that as well. Most of this comes from job design and hrothgar hairstyles so yeah... 2 or 3 questionable things amongst a sea of good stuff... the game is really going downhill..


And churro, instead of spreading rumors like this, why not share the source? I'm curious as well... unless?

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Originally Posted by Starshower

You are absolutely right with everything you're saying. Basically people are mad at job changes and hrothgar hairstyles and the rest is subjective opinions of stuff that was also present in shb (like gear recolors) and also ignoring everything good that was added and quality improvements as "expected thus nothing special" just so they can pretend their point of view won. The patches aren't even out, we don't know the quality of future content, so you're already expecting it to be worse because you want to make up invented reasons as to how it's bad and will get worse. Like or hate the story, it's subjective, but the quality of the assets and presentation like mentioned above improved over shb. Also, with them remaking old dungeons entirely for them to have better quality and the way they'll improve the graphics massively next expansion, you really have no grounds at all to say it's going down. It's only getting better, and those are facts. I like how you dismissed a whole new residential district and new plots as "still a bad sysyem lol so it sucks".


It's really been a trend to think the game is getting worse, I've seen a lot of youtubers making videos like that as well. Most of this comes from job design and hrothgar hairstyles so yeah... 2 or 3 questionable things amongst a sea of good stuff... the game is really going downhill..


And churro, instead of spreading rumors like this, why not share the source? I'm curious as well... unless?

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An entire missing dungeon set isn’t just a recolor issue. But the fact we are 4 expansions in and they still can’t even make reused gear dyable? That’s a problem. As far as story goes, visually and vo wise i thought ShB set the trend the highest it’s been even after EW. But either way, not all time and resources should be put towards the story. It should be allocated equally. This is getting away from the overall topic of this thread though, which is the fact that even after 3 years of waiting, hrothgar players only got 6 hairstyles to show for it and they completely cut off their ears and are just…plain weird looking. There’s no excuse for this. There’s no excuse for the radio silence. Y’all can defend the devs and game all you want but i’m going to be blunt and continue speaking the truth. The only reason we’re in this mess is because people continue to blindly praise the game and handwave it’s problems.

People said the same exact thing about being patient for content and hair in ShB and look what happened. Major loss in content and hardly any improvement for hroth's whatsoever.