Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

I do want jobs but i don't wanna be an instant level 50 PLD that's gonna be kinda lame tbh cause i wanna experience my job in pt's on the way to 50 i don't love to grind but i do love to pt so it wouldn't matter i just don't wanna be an instant 50 on my job.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Zenaku when I have stated specifically that you ignored it. I'm fine with some of the ultimate extremes being blocked (Dragoon/Conjurer) But from a scaling point of view it would be more work to sit down and decide which of those choices should be blocked then just having them all unlocked.

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A simple compromise to blocking arbitrary combinations: attach jobs to disciplines.

White Mage can be used with Disciples of Magic classes, Berserker can be used with Disciples of War classes.

Leaves hybrid jobs in an unfortunate place, but paladin is pretty clearly Disciple of War with access to Curative/Protective magic, perhaps Red Mage is a Disciple of War characterized with nearly full access to Conjurer abilities. Unlock Red Mage with gladiator and do a quest for the Conjurers guild to earn the job. Or vice-versa.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

A Role doesn't define a weapon though.

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Gladiator can be easily shifted to two roles: attacker and tank.
Marauder can also have a tanking role and an attacking role.
Pugilist could be attacker, debuffer or evasion tank.
Lancer is debuffer/attacker.
Archer could get an attacking role and a debuffing role.
Thaumaturge and Conjurer can be specialized to nukes/debuffs and healers/buffs

Weapons define available roles. A Marauder tank does not need to be a Paladin to have the same available role, but giving an archer a tanking role makes no sense. So while role does not define a weapon, weapon does to some extent define a role.

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Originally Posted by Lerris

A simple compromise to blocking arbitrary combinations: attach jobs to disciplines.

White Mage can be used with Disciples of Magic classes, Berserker can be used with Disciples of War classes.

Leaves hybrid jobs in an unfortunate place, but paladin is pretty clearly Disciple of War with access to Curative/Protective magic, perhaps Red Mage is a Disciple of War characterized with nearly full access to Conjurer abilities. Unlock Red Mage with gladiator and do a quest for the Conjurers guild to earn the job. Or vice-versa.

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Honestly? I could certainly live with this. Well done :).

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Originally Posted by Lerris

Gladiator can be easily shifted to two roles: attacker and tank.
Marauder can also have a tanking role and an attacking role.
Pugilist could be attacker, debuffer or evasion tank.
Lancer is debuffer/attacker.
Archer could get an attacking role and a debuffing role.
Thaumaturge and Conjurer can be specialized to nukes/debuffs and healers/buffs

Weapons define available roles. A Marauder tank does not need to be a Paladin to have the same available role, but giving an archer a tanking role makes no sense. So while role does not define a weapon, weapon does to some extent define a role.

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Why does using an Archer as a Tank make no sense? A Tank is someone who can keep hate, prevent the monster from moving, and allow the other party members to maintain an easy attack formation.

If an archer can keep hate, stay out of range and keep the monster bound, Are they not tanking it?
I'd rather see unique new approaches to tasks. I know FFXIV is not the place to try and enforce these ideas. But I'd love to see a game where you picked a Weapon and a Role. the Role determined what you did in combat, and the Weapon determined how you performed it.

IE.

Pick a Great Axe/Healer. You act as a front line healer. Dealing damage with your great axe, earning the power to cast curative magics by dealing that damage.

Pick a Bow/Tank you act as a ranged tanker. Able to to hold a enemies hate and stay out of range by pinning them to the floor with traps or abilities that restrict movement.

Or Fist/Elemental where you cast magic into your fists and punch the magic into a monster.

Thats how FFXIV sounded when they first announced. Sadly We'll never see a game like this I think, and thats disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Why does using an Archer as a Tank make no sense? A Tank is someone who can keep hate, prevent the monster from moving, and allow the other party members to maintain an easy attack formation.

If an archer can keep hate, stay out of range and keep the monster bound, Are they not tanking it?
I'd rather see unique new approaches to tasks. I know FFXIV is not the place to try and enforce these ideas. But I'd love to see a game where you picked a Weapon and a Role. the Role determined what you did in combat, and the Weapon determined how you performed it.

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That's a debuffing role being used as a tank. And if the bind has any chance of missing/failing, and it should, the archer is toast.Otherwise, it's the sort of tactic that leads to the broken archers that Peregrine's constantly bringing to the community's attention.

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Originally Posted by Lerris

That's a debuffing role being used as a tank. And if the bind has any chance of missing/failing, and it should, the archer is toast.Otherwise, it's the sort of tactic that leads to the broken archers that Peregrine's constantly bringing to the community's attention.

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Archer is just a weapon. A Bow user. The Role "Tank" just signifies someone who is able to hold hate and keep a monster in place while others assault it.

So why can a Bow User not be a Tank?

I want an open ended game that could do that kind of thing. Its obvious though that the playerbase of MMO's doesn't like that kind of outofthebox thinking. Which is upsetting.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Archer is just a weapon. A Bow user. The Role "Tank" just signifies someone who is able to hold hate and keep a monster in place while others assault it.

So why can a Bow User not be a Tank?

I want an open ended game that could do that kind of thing. Its obvious though that the playerbase of MMO's doesn't like that kind of outofthebox thinking. Which is upsetting.

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Admittedly, with this kind of system, they'd just have to carefully balance this capability against the damage that the Archer could deal, or in some way further limit what abilities they could use at any one time, so that the abilities needed to 'tank' and enemy aren't simultaneously useable with the abilities that rip the enemy to shreds.

I'm all for being able to damage/heal/tank all at one time... but you can't be allowed to 'excel' at all three at the same time. That's why it's 'jack of all trades, master of none'.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrAM

Admittedly, with this kind of system, they'd just have to carefully balance this capability against the damage that the Archer could deal, or in some way further limit what abilities they could use at any one time, so that the abilities needed to 'tank' and enemy aren't simultaneously useable with the abilities that rip the enemy to shreds.

I'm all for being able to damage/heal/tank all at one time... but you can't be allowed to 'excel' at all three at the same time. That's why it's 'jack of all trades, master of none'.

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Exactly though. For Instance if Archer/Paladin in XIV was allowed. We'd have someone who had access to a few Hate and Monster debuffing skills but none of the high damage dealing skills, but then all of the tanking skills Paladin Offers and the ability to wear Armors that Paladin wear. So an Archer can become a Tank.

Or they could do it to where when a Job it modifies skills equipped. Same for Class.

so For instance of an Archer/Black Mage is thrown together. Instead of equiping the spells "Fire" When you equipped and Casted "Fire" it would turn into "Fire Arrow" Showing the Archer casting the spell onto an arrow and shooting it into the monster.

I want a game that can mix and match seemlessly like that.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Exactly though. For Instance if Archer/Paladin in XIV was allowed. We'd have someone who had access to a few Hate and Monster debuffing skills but none of the high damage dealing skills, but then all of the tanking skills Paladin Offers and the ability to wear Armors that Paladin wear. So an Archer can become a Tank.

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This is the part that doesn't make sense ( and unfortunately is currently permitted ). Archers traditionally don't wear heavy armor because it interferes with their movements, making them less effective as archers. And the Paladin's trademark as a tanking role is not so much the sword as it is the shield. How does an archer use a shield?

If an archer's going to tank, it should be an evasion tank role.