Dark Knight Megathread

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引用元：HyperiusUltima

It'll take them decades to reinvent the wheel, that's for sure. While I'm ok with these changes, DRK still has large issues that overshadow these gains. The only big gain that was worth noting was BW becoming 5 Stacks(removes Ping dependancy) and LD having a MASSIVE drain effect(1500 potency - but still need to see per swing; if it's per swing, then basically healers have no more to fear LD and panic).

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Don't get me wrong this changes are nice, i just reread my post and sounds very spitfull lol.
The only changes i actually apreciate is stalwart soul and living dead bcs was a long standing issue, the changes of bloodweapon are nice buuuuuut those changes wouln't have been needed if they didn't nerf the skill in the first place so it's the normal trending with DRK and i can't be gratefull about the change bcs of it.

Looking at the changes they made to Living Dead, I have to say... mannnn I really do not envy SE's position.

You can almost hear them straining as they bend over backwards trying to come up with a way to keep the ability "in-flavor" with DRK while at the same time bring it up to par with other tanks' invuln skills.

I love the living dead change. We’re zombies and zombies need to eat to gain health. It make sense and it’s a awesome change.

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引用元：Hazama999

Looking at the changes they made to Living Dead, I have to say... mannnn I really do not envy SE's position.

You can almost hear them straining as they bend over backwards trying to come up with a way to keep the ability "in-flavor" with DRK while at the same time bring it up to par with other tanks' invuln skills.

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Honestly I'm glad they did, they could have easily just made it Holmgang and called it a day. As far as I can tell it'll be pretty good too, hope I'm not proven wrong when we actually get to try it.

People should actually be glad that they listened to the community and feedbacks, rather than being grumpy and pointing out more what did not changed.

Blood Weapon being a 5 charge now, will leads to a big change :
- No more SkS dependant
- Not missing a GCD while using AoE
- Welcome people with ping ! Now you can play the job without a " huge " ( and frustrating ) feeling
- Can use it pre-pull for certain niche scenario
- In case of emergency, you can now triple weave and still not be highly punished

It's surprising how people doesn't seems hype about LD, even though this Forum cried about it for so long. The scary part was when they mentionned the healing tied to Walking Dead during the LL, WITHOUT mentionning the fact that cleansing WD will not make the invuln disappear.
LD went from being so annoying to use in most cases, to be REALLY strong, and undirectly " buffing " Benediction, since now this tool is no more the " DRK's dedicated life support ".

Yeah, we still need other changes, on some stuff, but the most important changes were made, now give it time and see if they keep the momentum. Oblation still need to either be stronger, or a change.

Sorry, I know I should be more hyped and thankful for the changes to LD and BW, but seeing the PvP toolkit got me REALLY hyped.

I think PvP is dumb, not for game design reasons but for player mentality. Some people lose a single encounter and just give up, standing afk at the respawn point. Most would rather hunt down the other teams instead of doing the objectives. It's awful, unless you're VERY lucky to be matched with a team that actually cares. Yeah, I don't like PvP, but that being said... it seems to be the only way I'll ever have fun with DRK.

TBN not tied to damage resources, you now manage your HP instead of MP (feels more in line with the DRK lore tbh), a badass invul with a badass name (Eventide), Salted Earth actually contributing to tanking, a gap closer that inflicts Sole Survivor... Damn. I wish they'd let the PvP team work on PvE.

Eventide looks great, but it would suck if a PvE invuln had damage attached to it like that. And I highly doubt SE would give us two invulns. But it wouldn't surprise me if when working on PvP DRK they developed this solution to LD.

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引用元：SylviaCrystal

Sorry, I know I should be more hyped and thankful for the changes to LD and BW, but seeing the PvP toolkit got me REALLY hyped.

I think PvP is dumb, not for game design reasons but for player mentality. Some people lose a single encounter and just give up, standing afk at the respawn point. Most would rather hunt down the other teams instead of doing the objectives. It's awful, unless you're VERY lucky to be matched with a team that actually cares. Yeah, I don't like PvP, but that being said... it seems to be the only way I'll ever have fun with DRK.

TBN not tied to damage resources, you now manage your HP instead of MP (feels more in line with the DRK lore tbh), a badass invul with a badass name (Eventide), Salted Earth actually contributing to tanking, a gap closer that inflicts Sole Survivor... Damn. I wish they'd let the PvP team work on PvE.

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Fingers crossed the new PvP toolkit is a way for the devs to test an entirely new DRK build before releasing it.

I want to say that all these changes are a step in the right direction, and if, IF, the dev team can continue on this path they'll very quickly be in good standing with the DRK community once more.
I will remain cautiously optimistic for the future, because there are still fundamental issues with the class that needs addressing and they SHOULD NOT stop scanning these threads with a microscope to really bring the class in line. This is before even reworking how the class works.

Stay vocal, fellow strugglers.

I went solo with level sync into S1T7 and recorded this little demonstration of Living Dead in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x98SWsU5C-M

Yep, can confirm, you can self-cleanse Living Dead (Lv. 89 mobs in UT). Worked out to be somewhere in the range of 30k healing per GCD.

its MASSIVE healing and its per target so unleash zips you to full in AOE

Doktor, Turn off my pain inhibitors

Time to start blasting DMC's Subhuman chorus everytime i hit living dead now.

YOU CANNOT KILL ME

I AM OMEGA

Must say I'm pretty happy with the changes all things considered. I'd like them to buff Souleater from 300 cure potency to 400 and maybe the same for Abyssal Drain, But all and all I'm happy with the Dark Knight now.

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引用元：LoadedVirus

Must say I'm pretty happy with the changes all things considered. I'd like them to buff Souleater from 300 cure potency to 400 and maybe the same for Abyssal Drain, But all and all I'm happy with the Dark Knight now.

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Yeah, if they would have buffed the potency of souleater to 400 and abyssal drain to 250-300 while unlinking it from carve & spit, that would have been perfect for a while until they totally rework DRK.

New LD is great. I ran the new dungeon and was able to pop it for the first trash pull at the start and after every boss. If you're fine risking not having it for the bosses, tell the healer to not bother healing you and just pop it for trash pulls.

PVP Dark seems really terrible in frontline.

I cannot figure out what this class is even mean to accomplish there.

Wished the Lifesteal persist into Undead Rebirth, fact that if falls off means the Healer still has to baby sit you to make sure you don't eat dirt after the duration ends.

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引用元：Mat13295

Time to start blasting DMC's Subhuman chorus everytime i hit living dead now.

YOU CANNOT KILL ME

I AM OMEGA

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that is a terrible song for DMC standards
catch me playing divine Hate or Cerberus theme

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引用元：Oizen

PVP Dark seems really terrible in frontline.

I cannot figure out what this class is even mean to accomplish there.

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From experience, it's mostly about Salted Earth utility, today as warrior we managed to combo a salted earth pull, whole warrior LB burst and a dragoon LB, whole enemy team was stacked in the point, and in one second they were gone lol.

I think it's in a good spot for that kind of synergy but your team has to follow through.

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引用元：Duskane

that is a terrible song for DMC standards
catch me playing divine Hate or Cerberus theme

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I don't know how anyone can choose Subhuman when Bury the Light exists in the same game either, but we're arguing music taste here, it's entirely pointless.

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引用元：Keagian

Wished the Lifesteal persist into Undead Rebirth, fact that if falls off means the Healer still has to baby sit you to make sure you don't eat dirt after the duration ends.

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That's... weird.

If the healing isn't a part of Living Dead or Undead Rebirth, just Walking Dead, then why is it phrased as "Additional effect" after LD? Why not just "While under the effect of Walking Dead, most attacks will not lower your HP below 1 and you receive healing with a potency of 1500 for each weaponskill or spell successfully delivered"? More than a few people are gonna be confused as to the phrasing without trying it firsthand, and it'll be quite a shocker when it doesn't work the way they think in a dungeon pull.
... and again we go back to "Why didn't they just remove the Walking Dead component" since the healing effect exists purely in service of cleansing it with no longevity past its removal, and makes the multi-paragraph effect even longer. Could have just made LD proc a full heal when you hit 1HP and then give the 10 sec Holmgang, saving like a paragraph.

Of course, asking for any tangible improvements to the healing component is already looking the gift horse in the mouth. Would be really cool if it gave the healing component for the whole Holmgang, but if it's a one-time heal to full and we still have a useful Holmgang after that, fine, that's already huge improvement. On paper it reads as a better Holmgang, though the fact that WAR can do the same thing more frequently beats that out in practice.
Honestly I'm mostly just happy that LD feels like it activates almost instantly now rather than after an animation delay, but maybe I just haven't used it in a hot minute and I'm just imagining.

Living Dead's wording as always been a bit weird, but I do hope they consider adding lifesteal to Undead Rebirth.

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引用元：Keagian

Wished the Lifesteal persist into Undead Rebirth, fact that if falls off means the Healer still has to baby sit you to make sure you don't eat dirt after the duration ends.

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Yeah, I noticed that on subsequent runs. At least that only seems like an issue during trash pulls when you can heal yourself to full near instantly.

Yea Undead rebirth is a glorified holmgang. Only problem is that you arent a warrior, PLD or GNB where you can pop one move and get 25% of your health back. This is where DRK self sustain issues really show up. Wont happen in casual content unless you get hit by a ton of AOEs but for the most part this change is still better than what we had and that is a start until they can address other issues with DRK. Just hope they never design a fight where the boss cast two deadly TB and then jumps away for 10s or more.

Now that they vastly improved on Living Dead and fixed Blood Weapon, the job is almost perfect, if only they would give PVP Salted Earth to PVE... could even drop the damage buff and keep only the mitigation and regen while standing on it, it could compare to Camouflage+Aurora, to give us some much needed sustain and compensate for Dark Mind being magic only

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引用元：Derio

Just hope they never design a fight where the boss cast two deadly TB and then jumps away for 10s or more.

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I mean, assuming such a niche scenario came true, it's not like you wouldn't have options. Have the other tank use their invuln if it suits the fight better, deal with the buster with a regular tankswap or *gasp* have your healers GCD heal you since the boss isn't even on the field for them do damage it.

I'd not get particularly worried over fictional scenarios with workable solutions when the current fix is a-okay for current expansion fights we do have.

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引用元：Derio

Yea Undead rebirth is a glorified holmgang. Only problem is that you arent a warrior, PLD or GNB where you can pop one move and get 25% of your health back. This is where DRK self sustain issues really show up. Wont happen in casual content unless you get hit by a ton of AOEs but for the most part this change is still better than what we had and that is a start until they can address other issues with DRK. Just hope they never design a fight where the boss cast two deadly TB and then jumps away for 10s or more.

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A glorified best Tank invuln, then?
If a boss jumps away and you're still under LD, your healers will have nothing to do but to heal you.

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引用元：DannyDeDitto

I think it's in a good spot for that kind of synergy but your team has to follow through.

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Yea, every follow through feels like a stomp. If you're unlucky and they don't, though, then lol RIP. At least their survivability seems nice.

Also, bless Eventide. It has won a lot of matches for me!

It's incredible to believe that after 7 long years Dark Knight's issues have been resolved, to an extend.

Thanks for keeping this thread alive everyone. I'm not sure wether or not we made a difference or this thread in particular, but if we did, it's an amazing accomplishment in a game played by millions of players. Including you.

I know we can't go back to the old days but that doesn't mean things can't be better. I have been cynical in the past but I thank Yoshi P for taking the necessary steps to make this job enjoyable for all of us.

I will update the Megathread in the future. Soon I suspect. I will need a bit of help from you guys. I'm not an expert on all issues so help would be appreciated.

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引用元：Shin96

It's incredible to believe that after 7 long years Dark Knight's issues have been resolved, to an extend.

Thanks for keeping this thread alive everyone. I'm not sure wether or not we made a difference or this thread in particular, but if we did, it's an amazing accomplishment in a game played by millions of players. Including you.

I know we can't go back to the old days but that doesn't mean things can't be better. I have been cynical in the past but I thank Yoshi P for taking the necessary steps to make this job enjoyable for all of us.

I will update the Megathread in the future. Soon I suspect. I will need a bit of help from you guys. I'm not an expert on all issues so help would be appreciated.

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well, its invul is solved. Its still got the issue in that plays like warrior which is a fairly big issue
good to hear from you

Living Dead fix and Blood Weapon stacks are checked off the list.

Now we just need some more sustain and for Dark Mind and Oblation to be a bit better and we'll be good. The Dark Mind part just needs a 10% physical mitigation to go with the 20% magical mitigation and it'll be fine. Oblation...personally I'd push for a regen to be there so it'd also double as our "more sustain" and kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Here's an idea I came up with in a fever dream, to rework Oblation and provide more sustain. Apologies if someone came up with this idea already, as I'm not going to read 288 pages of salt and darkness.

Level 82 trait, Dark Offering: The Blackest Night grants the effect Dark Offering, which reduces damage taken by 10% for 7 seconds. Action changes to Oblation while a Dark Offering is active.

Level 82 action, Oblation: Consumes any active Dark Offering and The Blackest Night effects. Restores HP to players affected equal to the shield remaining on The Blackest Night. If HP is restored by this action while in combat, grants Dark Arts.

Basically, my idea is to take Oblation's damage reduction and build it into TBN, just like every other tank got upgrades to their short CD mitigation. Oblation stays around as a way to consume the remaining shield of TBN. You can "eat" a shield that isn't going to break to force the Dark Arts proc, so now there's no downside to using TBN on cooldown. If you're going to use all of the shield, great! That's how the skill was intended to be used, and you'll still get the full benefit. If you're not going to use all of the shield, use the skill anyway and eat it for a free 25% HP sustain every 15 seconds. But be wary of eating it too early, as you'll lose the mitigation.

One potential downside is raiders will almost certainly prepull TBN and eat it early for the free Dark Arts, which could make the opener even more spammy.

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引用元：YukiB

One potential downside is raiders will almost certainly prepull TBN and eat it early for the free Dark Arts, which could make the opener even more spammy.

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"TBN can only be used while in combat" Pretty easy fix for not making the opener spammy, however the opener right now is done using TBN on yourself if you are main tank, or on the main tank if you are off tank.

I honestly just wish there'd be something more to DRK than just the Edge/Flood spam and a copy pasted Inner Release.

Perhaps another combo upon executing Delirium, which replaces your Souleater combo?
Maybe a trait that allows you to reduce the CD on Abyssal Drain/Carve and spit by completing the souleater/stalwart soul combos? So you can use abyssal drain every 30 seconds when doing AoE, and C&S as well when doing single target?
Delirium granting 3 stacks of Dark Arts changing/upgrading 3 abilities on your hotbar ( one for damage, one for sustain, one for defense, and if used on the defense one [ TBN ] you get the Dark Arts back? )
Living Shadow copying your abilities and granting you their effects?
Dark Missionary changed to be slightly different compared to Heart of Light? Both offer 10% damage reduction but one could grant an instant heal, the other a regen.
Dark Mind changed into a shield that lets you tank auto attacks better? Like a shield that has 3 stacks + 2 * number of enemies around you stacks, each stack granting a 400 potency shield, which when broken heals for 400 potency? You could also end it early to just heal yourself for the would be heals, similar to WHT's bell.
Playing around with the DarkSide timer, so that when it reaches 60 seconds, by using Edge/Flood you can go above for a bit, overcharging and you get another combo as your main burst?
Living Shadow to merge with you granting the above mentioned effect or perhaps changing all your abilties so you do a new rotation?

I'd also like to mention that in PvP DRK is very underwhelming. Its damage while good in AoE doesn't really play well in a duel or in single target at all. You have to literally go below 50-60% HP to deal any significant amount of damage, and if you do that, you will just get CC locked and killed by jobs who can literally either 1 shoot you, or 1 shoot you when <50%. Warrior's Inner Release in PvP allows him to use fell cleaves on cooldown, while Bloodspiller is a 1 time activation.

Bloodspiller should do damage based on the enemies missing HP, not yours, or if the design idea which is cool that you do more damage the lower you get should be kept around, then make it be much better than a 12000 potency fell cleave, and the maximum damage reached when you are at around 35% HP at least. The 12k potency on bloodspiller is only achievable when you are at <20% HP, which is insane to think you will survive, and even if under Undead Rebirth, you only get 1 cast of Bloodspiller, and if focused ( which you will be when your HP drops to 1 ), you will not be able to chain shadowbringer -> Bloodspiller since you won't have the HP for it.

My ideas for PvP:
1.Make Bloodspiller a 6000 potency attack and you can use it as long as you have DarkSide available. It could keep its trait of the lower you are, the more damage it does. But it should inherently be much better than a Fell Cleave when you are low, since you risk dying soon. ( 16000 potency when at <20% HP, high risk, but high reward ) Or it could be based on the enemies missing HP to act as an execute.
2.Your TBN should also be stronger or have a 10 sec CD, since WAR's Bloodwhetting is straight up busted compared. ( TBN: 8k potency heal vs 20% max hp shield and healing for all damage done for 10 seconds )
3.Shadowbringer should either cost less HP, or deal more damage. 20% max HP for a 4k potency AoE and a bloodspiller which does a mere 4000 potency when you aren't low is counterproductive. Not worth using at all right now unless 3 people get hit by the shadowbringer.

Eventide seems impactful enough in some situations however combining "Bloodspiller does more damage the lower your HP is" and "Eventide does more damage the higher your HP is" is kind of wierd is it not?
Its 20K damage is decent, however when there's jobs that can instantly kill you at <50% HP (NIN), 1 shoot you ( MCN ), or kill your entire team ( SAM ), and do AoE damage much better ( DRG ), then perhaps this could be something like:
-> Deals 20K damage in front and behind of you, reaching 30K potency as the enemies HP reaches maximum/your HP reaches 20%. Also making yourself immune to damage should be a pretty good buff to, so you can still be stunned but at least you are somewhat dangerous due to your Bloodspiller's synergy with you having low HP, and you have much better control when to use Quietus to heal up.
Right now, it does some damage, and you are not that big of a danger compared to a WAR.

I edited the top post. Let me know if there are any inconsistencies or possible improvements!

Btw the DRK's lb from pvp is literally the wol attack in the shadowbringers trailer... and it should have been the shadowbringers animation imo

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引用元：Titoulakikoute

Btw the DRK's lb from pvp is literally the wol attack in the shadowbringers trailer... and it should have been the shadowbringers animation imo

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For real. It's a really pathetic recycled animation for an attack named after the best expansion.

After playing DRK on PvP for a while, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do in Frontline. It seems balanced around pulling people in with Salted Earth and hoping for the rare occasion that your team will follow through (most times they don't).

I don't have any ranged options outside of Shadowbringer, which is only 10y. I don't have any actions that stun, so people just walk away from my SE after the 3s bind from Salt and Darkness. Previously I could pull people individually with Weapon Throw...

Most of the time I see myself stalling behind my team and waiting for my LB bar to fill up so I can use Eventide. If I dare to jump in with Plunge to use SE I just get stunlocked to death by 7 White Mages, even with Purify. I have no counter play and fishing people with Salted Earth isn't being much fun to me so far. It's not so bad in Crystaline Conflict tho.

I get the feeling that they made a bunch of cool stuff that would be awesome in PvE (Salted Earth with mitigation, Sole Survivor on Plunge, managing HP instead of MP) and put in on PvP, but in PvP it doesn't work because of infinite stunlock and CC.