Please implement something to teach players how to play

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

When did this turn into a discussion about stressful/hard content? The OP was addressing all content that wasn't being done solo.

You're the one who believes THINK is so important. Try engaging it. Game companies are profit driven in the end. That means they need to think about all the potential customers they are trying to attract, including people who are tired after a long day of work. They absolutely need to cater part of their game to those people.

Part does not mean all, though. I've already stated if you run into someone joining a Savage/EX/Ultimate group that does not meet reasonable expectations for performance in that content, by all means remove them from the group.

But those same standards cannot be expected of players doing normal content. That content is intended for everyone.


Or it's more a problem with a specific data center. It's extremely rare I run into issues in Duty Finder. I'm even leveling a new character right now and the number of players being welcoming and helpful to all the sprouts has been great to see.

I'm not going to say the bad experiences never happen on Crystal but they're so uncommon from my experience I never walk into an instance fearing the group will have a nightmare player.

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I was literally replying to your own comment.
Even if Game companies are profit driven, doesn't mean that they have to cater towards everyone. Just the majority. If you want something specific, there're plenty of games that are made for "tired" people where you don't need to think.
FFXIV is an MMO. A game, where you WILL encounter other players and you WILL engage in activities with them. It's up to YOU to do your best (no, it's doesn't mean you need to perform like everything is at Ultimate level play, I'm so tired of repeating this, I don't understand why you people are so dense) to provide your support for your team, which includes doing your job as DPS/Tank/Healer. This doesn't mean that you have to be top parser score in anything you do. This means that you have to respect others' time the same way they respect yours. Therefore not being lazy.
This thread was started with an idea to add more tools to teach people literal basics. You will be surprised how many players out there want to learn the game, their class and not just mush random pretty buttons. Especially new players.
For some reason, part of this community thinks that you are allowed to be a burden for your team. If you're not interested in learning, it's fine, no one is forcing you. But you also need to avoid forcing others to work twice as hard because they didn't pay their sub to carry you through content. (And I don't mean You Jojoya, specifically, just in case)

In a world where two wrongs make a right...

Join us in exploring a dark fantasy world where one couple has to come to terms with the fact that to be a good person they must first embody the worst traits known to man while avoiding conversion into a decent human being by the Toxic Corporate Elites.

Gods of Light - Coming to theaters soon in *021

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

In learning their game? Yes it is. It absolutely is.

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No, it isn't. They are not responsible for whether or not a player wants to learn.

Is it their responsibility to provide tools to help the player who does want to learn? Yes, and they've done that.

The link to the Play Guide on Lodestone is default to the UI when you start a new character and log in. You have to manually disable it in Character Customization.

They added the Hall of Novices to explain the basics of group play.

Skills get added slowly so players can get used to them and learn them in an appropriate order for the most part.

Mechanics gradually get added so players can learn those.

SE has done their due diligence when it comes to making tools to learn basic game concepts available.

It is still not their responsibility to force the player to learn.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I'm not going to say the bad experiences never happen on Crystal but they're so uncommon from my experience I never walk into an instance fearing the group will have a nightmare player.

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maybe it says something about the data center when the majority of the people who defend said selfish and toxic "playstyle" to death come from a certain one, while the people from the other "camp" come from various different ones?
maybe I'll make a crystal alt and see for myself how different it is!

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

When did this turn into a discussion about stressful/hard content? The OP was addressing all content that wasn't being done solo.

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huh?

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

TO clarify: I'm mainly concerned about level 70-80 characters having these issues.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

In a world where two wrongs make a right...

Join us in exploring a dark fantasy world where one couple has to come to terms with the fact that to be a good person they must first embody the worst traits known to man while avoiding conversion into a decent human being by the Toxic Corporate Elites.

Gods of Light - Coming to theaters soon in *021

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Not sure what this has to do with topic at hand. Must be rough living in your own world. I feel bad for ya.




I think the point is trying to be made is that people like myself are happy with the content how it is, so if you want better tools to learn that is fine. Just don't force players to use said tools and that is that.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No, it isn't. They are not responsible for whether or not a player wants to learn.

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Yes, it is their responsibility to make sure that people can enjoy the game to the fullest, otherwise they waste their resources on making harder content if literally no one would want to be bothered to learn.

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Is it their responsibility to provide tools to help the player who does want to learn? Yes, and they've done that.

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Those are outdated.

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They added the Hall of Novices to explain the basics of group play.

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Yes. But some people still refuse to do their job.

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Skills get added slowly so players can get used to them and learn them in an appropriate order for the most part.

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Yes and Skills added slowly, because it's how any MMO shows your character growth. Plus every new expansion they add more or rework the old ones.

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Mechanics gradually get added so players can learn those.

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But basic mechanics are not really explained and some people, even on cap level, still don't know those.

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SE has done their due diligence when it comes to making tools to learn basic game concepts available.

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Outdated.

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It is still not their responsibility to force the player to learn.

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Apparently they believe that players will have interest in learning more and overcoming difficulties. I think, in Asia, players don't really have problem with learning more and getting better?

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Originally Posted by Jadedsins

Not sure what this has to do with topic at hand. Must be rough living in your own world. I feel bad for ya.




I think the point is trying to be made is that people like myself are happy with the content how it is, so if you want better tools to learn that is fine. Just don't force players to use said tools and that is that.

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Not sure why you're quoting me. I didn't quote you. Keep doing you.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

Yes. But some people still refuse to do their job.

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I mean if those people already have that mentality then there's nothing SE can do about it, no matter what training features they add.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The problem you're ignoring is that you lack information that will let you know what that other player's best is. Are they disabled in some way? You have no way of knowing that. Are they running the game on a potato PC barely meeting system requirements from a low speed internet hotspot? You have no way of knowing that.

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That's not really SE's problem. While I would agree that we need more tools to help disabled players, no need to assume that everyone is disabled. Potato PC is really a player's problem. And it's also what's holding SE's hands tight when it comes to adding more functions or expanding features.

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They may very well be trying their best even if it doesn't look that way to you.

What you can do is decide whether or not you want to be in a party with another player who doesn't meet your personal standards. You can try to get the rest of the party to agree to remove the player, or you can leave on your own. I've left parties when there was literally a player who was not trying. I'm talking not even doing a single or 2 button mash, I mean just following the party at a distance usually making stupid comments. The rest of the party wanted to carry that person and wouldn't agree to a kick so I left.

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And I don't disagree with you on this one. What's mindboggling here is that some people think that it's fine being lazy. It's simply disrespectful to everyone. And it's not about my personal standards. For some reason it's fine to be lazy and disrespectful, but asking the said player to work with others and stop holding everyone back is not.

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But those situations are so extremely rare. Most of the time, everyone in the group is contributing to a reasonable degree. Maybe a dungeon will take 25 minutes instead of 15 minutes? Doesn't bother me as long as everyone's got a good attitude about things.

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While it's fine to spend a bit more time than on some duty, if you start having more and more of those runs (and you will because of players influx), this additional time spent in a duty will accumulate into hours and days, you just don't feel it yet. The quality will drop. Even for defenders of lazy players.

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Why are we trying to get SE to divert development resources that could be used for improving job depth, creating new dungeons, etc. just to try to force a tiny percentage of problem players to change that have no interest in changing?

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It's not tiny. 14 "teaching system" is very outdated. It needs improvement. Right now people are not bothered to learn because everything is so simple. Until you actually get to harder content and get "gated" from it because people there want to actually clear stuff and get rewards.

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Originally Posted by Fland

I mean if those people already have that mentality then there's nothing SE can do about it, no matter what training features they add.

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It's fine, let them be then. Just don't let them ride your back when you meet those unless you're fine with that.
Altho, if we had a better teaching system that would interest players to learn, it's only a benefit for everyone. You still won't need to be the best, you will just have more knowledge about things, thus create good habits for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

stop expecting every new player to be at your level in one pull, i bet you were a new player once getting facepalms too.

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I don't see the reason for so much aggression over this to be honest. What many people want is some form of intermediate or advanced tutorial at higher levels and a tiny bit more incentive or motivation to do well. It's not about purging the bad players, it's just giving people some help learning the ropes and making it feel good to get there.

Why does the idea of simple encouragement and guidance to improve at a team hobby cause some people to lash out defensively so much? Why don't players want to be taught how to play? Of course I was a new player getting facepalms once too. I love that time in gaming, it was a great journey going from new sprout to achieving endgame goals and I wouldn't be half as good as I am now without all the help, friendly advice, chat, discussion and guides and such I had along the way. I'd have loved for even more of that to be available when getting into the game.