The Ifrit Fight is Dangerous to the Community.

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Originally Posted by Denmo

no, don't. this is past 600 posts and it's gone long enough. D:

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Said the guy with post # 610, wanna fight about it!? More asinine drama - everything about this thread makes perfect sense... blllllaaaaaahhhhhh

Fun fact: Ifrit would be proud of this thread.

The one time I really want to see Jhanaka and he goes and vanishes.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

I see. Well, this is about endgame and instanced content in general, not just Ifrit. Anyway, it's getting late, and I have to go get some sleep.

I will leave this question with you people: Should instanced endgame content have variable difficulty modes, while Primal/Unique Boss fights have ONLY one difficulty mode? I'm actually starting to warm up to this idea.

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I see what you are trying to do, and the answer is NO.

An instanced dungeon, take Dzemael for example, Batraal is the final boss of a stronghold, where countless adventurers and dragons have died inside, he deserves to be strong and challenging just like Ifrit, his fortress should be well fortified against invaders (us players). Thinking that an instance endgame of anything should have a dumbed down alternative just because it's not a primal or unique boss fight is absurd.

Instance is a merely way to avoid the inevitable competition resulted from a crowded server, competition like that brings out the worst of people, MPK, interfering during the fight, doing whatever it takes in order to claim the mob and have a shot at an item you want. Instance is an answer only to that problem, it provides you with access to the content, whether you can down it or not depends on your skill to overcome the content.

Frankly, if you are a baddie, you don't deserve to see the boss go down.

Practice makes perfect, spending your time here whining/arguing won't make you dodge eruption next time.

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Originally Posted by KyrsIsley

Instance is a merely way to avoid the inevitable competition resulted from a crowded server, competition like that brings out the worst of people, MPK, interfering during the fight, doing whatever it takes in order to claim the mob and have a shot at an item you want. Instance is an answer only to that problem, it provides you with access to the content, whether you can down it or not depends on your skill to overcome the content.

Frankly, if you are a baddie, you don't deserve to see the boss go down.

Practice makes perfect, spending your time here whining/arguing won't make you dodge eruption next time.

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It also helps with the issue of other parties being in the same area causing lag for some players or crashing the server if too many players are concentrated in one area.

Strictly strategy-based content is self-nerfing. SE hasn't touched Ifrit's difficulty (apart from fixing Prime Conditioning), but it's already a joke compared to 1.19 week 1. Everyone else figured out how to beat it for you already. All you have to do is follow their instructions, and you win. There's no gear check. The execution isn't very demanding. You can still win with several deaths during the fight. You can still win with people doing much less DPS than they should be. If you're really terrible you can just roll the dice on attempts until you get enough dashes for recovery, which happens fairly frequently anyway.

The fact that your nerf suggestion is a lazy damage cut really shows that you still don't grasp the fight, and you need to either do more attempts or rewatch a couple videos. The movement mechanics are a pass/fail. If you seriously want to nerf the fight via damage reduction you'd need to cut a lot more than 5% off eruptions and plumes. A real, effective, nerf would be to increase the plume/eruption cast time by a second or two or abolish animation locking to push more players over from fail to pass. I don't support a nerf at all, of course, but the fact that you don't even know how to nerf the fight means you really haven't tried it very much.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Know why? Resentment.

People are going to resent bad game design, as well as the fact that the most "hardcore" of people ever managed to beat Ifrit. That kind of elitist game design does not really support community unity. Especially when the hardcore shells decide to rub it into everybody else's faces by running around flashing their fancy drops.

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Ppl who beat Ifrit and FINALLY got a drop like to show that they were skilled enough to kill Ifrit.
My boyfriend got his first drop after 46!!! kills, so whats wrong with that?
People were also running around with NM weapons long ago O_o
so why aren't they allowed to do the same with Ifrit weapons, they are just weapons.
Some ppl just want to say, "yay look I beat Ifrit" cuz u can't see an achievement that says "i beat ifrit" :D

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

No. It's not fun when your party wipes because of the following:

[*]The design of the battle fails to take into account player lag - both technical and human.

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U know my bf and I have horrible lag sometimes but we still know how it works and don't die on plumes, cracks or whatever. Just try to read ifrits bodylanguage and he's a piece of cake o-o/

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

[*]Ifrit is far too powerful for the regular Classes. Jobs might make it easier, but seriously man...take this crap into account for a change.

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LNC, GLA/MRD and CON/THM are just the best class to defeat him as fast as possible.
I guess it would be possible with every class but it would take too long and he regenerates way too fast.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

[*]The battles require a lot of "high spec", both technical, gear-wise, and class-wise. This is incredibly exclusionary, and does not really lend a lot of positive atmosphere to the fight.

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thats so NOT true!
I won my first fight agains Ifrit with crap gear! NO materia at all and no special food =P
Gear, Technic, right Classes make him just a bit easier and u can kill him faster. Thats all.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

[*]The fact that some party configurations, like 6x Lancers, 2x Con/Thm, have a higher chance of success than other configurations, is simply repeating the Dzemael Mistake. (Whoring of the Archer class, anyone?)

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I played PUG as main class for Dzemael and it was never a prob for me.
I never touched/hit Batraal as Pug but oh well... i was surrounded by Skelettons who kept me busy =P
Everybody had his job to do.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

[*]I respect Yoshi-P for wanting to bring back the challenging factors of the olden-days of MMOs, but this is the wrong way to do it with the new generation of MMOs. I don't like it when I waste an hour of my time dying to Ifrit every time because of lag, animation lock, etc.

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Well if u don't want to waste your time, than don't fight Ifrit.
People who want to collect all their weapons, who want achievement or whatever will continue killing him.
If you die on Ifrit, try to analyze why. There's always a reason. My group dies from time to time but thats because someone messed something up. Or my favourite reason: tank died because all the cracks were on mages so they couldn't heal the tank ^^
If you know what Ifrit does (because u can read his bodylanguage) you will NEVER get hit by cracks or plumes. (except for ppl who do WS right before *lol*)
The only thing that annoys me is the drop rate of Ifrit weapons. As I said my boyfriend (kyumin krow) got his first drop after 46 kills >__>..

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Basically what I am trying to say is that these fights do not account for the CURRENT state of FFXIV, which is something I find to be very irritating and un-fun.

Anyway, I needed to rant a bit. I am an aspiring game designer myself, and I really can't stand bad game design. Simply put, Dzemael Darkhold and Ifrit are both examples of bad design that caters to an exclusive subset that loves to inflict insane amounts of self-torture.

I would prefer that Yoshi-P actually do one thing: Focus his game design of these encounters around the largest segment of the playerbase. Hardcore players that like insane challenges do not apply to that category, because they are statistically a minority - I am not saying Hardcore players should be ignored, just that they should not be used as a point of reference for designing these things.

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I don't think that they are just for hardcore players O__o
I'm not a hardcore player but I really love to kick Ifrits ass because its fun!
It's fun to be in a nice LS with great people who know how its done.

My LS also invites newbies of our LS to do Ifrit runs until they know how it works. So that everybody can play with any member of my LS. We needed hours until we knew how it's done. After u know, it's just awesome X33

Well Ifrit IS endgame stuff so ya it's for players who have LVL 50 classes and know what to do, how to use their skills etc. I had to learn it during Ifrit fights how to use my LNC the best. It took me some wins and losses but that's what makes it fun too. :3
And there are soo many people who have their first lvl50 classes (or all their classes are 50). so it's really good that there is some endgame stuff like that. Otherwise it would be kinda boring >__<
(I had to craft the whole day cuz my DoW/DoM classes are 50 and that is REALLY boring D: )
My lag on Ifrit is horrible to, ya sometimes I get hit because of it, but the times I got hit became close to zero cuz everybody works perfect together and know when cracks pop up.
If you try him more often you will see he's not such an invincible beast :D


(Pleasy ignore my gramar, typos etc. I'm no native speaker)

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Fun fact: Ifrit would be proud of this thread.

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He's too busy being killed to be proud of it.

No it is not.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Strictly strategy-based content is self-nerfing. SE hasn't touched Ifrit's difficulty (apart from fixing Prime Conditioning), but it's already a joke compared to 1.19 week 1. Everyone else figured out how to beat it for you already. All you have to do is follow their instructions, and you win. There's no gear check. The execution isn't very demanding. You can still win with several deaths during the fight. You can still win with people doing much less DPS than they should be. If you're really terrible you can just roll the dice on attempts until you get enough dashes for recovery, which happens fairly frequently anyway.

The fact that your nerf suggestion is a lazy damage cut really shows that you still don't grasp the fight, and you need to either do more attempts or rewatch a couple videos. The movement mechanics are a pass/fail. If you seriously want to nerf the fight via damage reduction you'd need to cut a lot more than 5% off eruptions and plumes. A real, effective, nerf would be to increase the plume/eruption cast time by a second or two or abolish animation locking to push more players over from fail to pass. I don't support a nerf at all, of course, but the fact that you don't even know how to nerf the fight means you really haven't tried it very much.

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Actually they made Ifrit harder in a way...
Before you could have your Glad tank use Riot Blade + Contagion
and put pacification on Ifrit that way, which completly stopped Ifrit from using Hellfire.

But they fixed that, which should have made it harder.
Yet more and more people managed to kill him.
By now it's really easy, cause people are used to the fight.
You hardly need a tank still, neither gear.
You can just go in completly naked and win with ease.

Which.. honestly kinda disappoints me, I wish Ifrit was a whole lot harder.
Ifrit didn't last long really, was exciting for like a week... but that's it.
Instead of nerfing, they should buff him.
I want more challenging stuff, cuz that's where the real fun's @ imo.
Didn't Yoshida also say that he wanted Casual and Hardcore stuff?
What's wrong with that?
I know, everyone hates when people mention it, but FFXI had 'challenging' stuff too.
Like AV, PW, Odin (dunno if you can rly consider this one hard tho lol), etc.

Of course not everyone will be able to beat all the stuff in the game, but that's good imo.
What would be the point if really anyone could beat the new content, why even play?
It would just be tedious and boring, because it would lack some challenge.

And some people are just better than other people.
It's a game. Some people win, some people lose.