Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

I expect that a Lv.80 WHM will be something like: "As long as you stand on the same spot while doing nothing, Assize recast time will go twice faster, because we know that you love Assize! Oh, and now you can have up to 5 lilies that you can spend on Assize for an even more reduced cooldown time!".
Your hotkey #1 will be Assize by default.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

Fiance and i just went over it...did adjustments for skills that are going away...it's just...missing. i'm fairly fairly upset at this.

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I hope to god that it's merely been moved to become a Job action, but the terrifying truth is at this point, it wouldn't surprise me if SE just removed it and utterly destroy one of the only real things WHM had that kept their identity intact, ESPECIALLY for raiding... Let's hope some others can help shine a light on this.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

so i'm looking at the newest screenshots from E3...where it shows most of the stuff...taking out what was lost...and lookign at levels etc...it appears that Cure 3 is...missing. gone...I'm fairly concerned about that.

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Originally Posted by Vaelin

I just looked over it myself and can confirm from what I saw that it wasn't visible in the same level slot (42) where it should be... unless we're blatantly missing it, that's pretty disconcerting.

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M-maybe they're just taking C-cure 3 out and r-r-replacing it with a newer, better skill, hahaha... R-right guys? Guys?

Huh... yeah. The overcure trait that halves it's mana isn't there, either, or on the tool tip for Cure II...

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Originally Posted by Vaelin

I hope to god that it's merely been moved to become a Job action, but the terrifying truth is at this point, it wouldn't surprise me if SE just removed it and utterly destroy one of the only real things WHM had that kept their identity intact, ESPECIALLY for raiding... Let's hope some others can help shine a light on this.

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Now there is no Earthly Star vs Cure 3 argument. if Cure 3 is gone...WHM has been stripped of...damn near everything at this point.

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Originally Posted by fantasticm

M-maybe they're just taking C-cure 3 out and r-r-replacing it with a newer, better skill, hahaha... R-right guys? Guys?

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No...i don't think they are...

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Originally Posted by beemancer

Huh... yeah. The overcure trait that halves it's mana isn't there, either, or on the tool tip for Cure II...

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That's been gone for awhile, we assumed we were losing "Overheal" already, not a big deal...but to take out Cure 3 completely...that's an issue and a half.

"WHM has the best healing potential, example Cure III"

Oh dear...

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Originally Posted by beemancer

Huh... yeah. The overcure trait that halves it's mana isn't there, either, or on the tool tip for Cure II...

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We actually found out that they removed that trait a while ago, but after seeing Cure 3 in the Job Action trailer, we never would assume Cure 3 would go too... Until now.

Divine Bension should only cost 1 Lily since it only takes 1 Lily to activate. The fact that it eats all Lilies is stupid since the recast timer is already short.

Remove the recast time reduction for Divine Bension and make it so 1 shield = 1 Lily and you've already made it a great tool for tank busters.

I actually don't want to jump the gun on this, so for the last time I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it's hopefully a Job action now. If, however, it's truly gone... Lord have mercy on us White Mage mains who ever want to be taken seriously in midcore+ raiding.

I thought for sure you guys must just be missing it... but then I looked and it does indeed appear to be missing. I even went back to look at screengrabs from MTQcapture video to see if maybe the level was changed significantly enough to change it's location, but.. nope.

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Originally Posted by fantasticm

M-maybe they're just taking C-cure 3 out and r-r-replacing it with a newer, better skill, hahaha... R-right guys? Guys?

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I mean, Cure III going away isn't a huge deal. It's best use-cases were incredibly niche and Medica I/II were usually more convenient to use due to greater AoE. It's the everything ITT + nothing neat to take it's place that make it sting a little. I wouldn't mind giving up one of my 32948291 ways to heal HP if it meant I got something useful and cool in exchange. Maybe like... a little utility! :P

Wasn't Cure 3 on the WHM hotbar from that preview video they did a while back? Or have they just removed it since then?

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

I mean, Cure III going away isn't a huge deal. It's best use-cases were incredibly niche and Medica I/II were usually more convenient to use due to greater AoE. It's the everything ITT + nothing neat to take it's place that make it sting a little. I wouldn't mind giving up one of my 32948291 ways to heal HP if it meant I got something useful and cool in exchange. Maybe like... a little utility! :P

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Its uses were niche, yes, but it was still incredibly useful and powerful in those moments. Even in PvP it's great if your team is grouped up and everyone gets blasted by an AoE LB. While I wouldn't mind if it got upgraded/changed/replaced with something a lot better and a lot more useful, if it just goes away and turns into NOTHING, then... I mean there's really no words for that. Just why.

so "Calm down" huh? someone wanna run the Heal numbers again? Without Cure 3 in there?

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Originally Posted by fantasticm

Wasn't Cure 3 on the WHM hotbar from that preview video they did a while back? Or have they just removed it since then?

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we thought so too....but it appears to be gone, from everything that we've seen from e3.

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Originally Posted by joannaluttrell

I thought for sure you guys must just be missing it... but then I looked and it does indeed appear to be missing.

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Exactly. I was hoping the WHM population just had really bad eyes but nope.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

I mean, Cure III going away isn't a huge deal. It's best use-cases were incredibly niche and Medica I/II were usually more convenient to use due to greater AoE. It's the everything ITT + nothing neat to take it's place that make it sting a little. I wouldn't mind giving up one of my 32948291 ways to heal HP if it meant I got something useful and cool in exchange. Maybe like... a little utility! :P

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Once we see a replacement that may actually be better or more useful, then we can say it's not a "huge deal". But if it's like what they've done with EVERY other ability they removed-yet-didn't-replace, then it's more than just a huge deal. It's downright ridiculous.

WOW, so they specifically showed Cure III in the WHM job video, but now they've removed it to screw WHM over even more??? LMAO, people really have gone way over the deep end of dramatic hyperbole.

I checked it, too, and couldn't find. Unless it really got moved to job actions, of which we only see the lower part... yeah. Gone.

Also, it actually is a big deal for me, because I used it whenever I needed a fast aoe heal bomb, e.g. in A11S. Sure, Med II got used more, but Cure III wasn't anywhere near useless, and it would be another huge blow to the class to loose the fastest non-instant group heal in the game, say what you want about that.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

WOW, so they specifically showed Cure III in the WHM job video, but now they've removed it to screw WHM over even more??? LMAO, people really have gone way over the deep end of dramatic hyperbole.

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If "they didn't show the final build back then!" is a valid argument for all the apologists out there, it is for me, too, in this case.

There's no way they removed Cure III. We're all just missing it, surely. What possible reason would they have to remove it?

*made literally the exact same comment about Stoneskin*

We'll find out soon enough where everything falls. I'm sort of in a place where I'm blocking my eyes and ears and chanting "LALALALA" when it comes to further WHM speculation since we're going to be hands-on in another day or so.

Ok, someone on redit suggested that maybe it was moved to job quest to replace DS. It was level 40 in the media release video, so.... maybe it was just moved over to replace DS on that quest?

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Originally Posted by joannaluttrell

Ok, someone on redit suggested that maybe it was moved to job quest to replace DS. It was level 40 in the media release video, so.... maybe it was just moved over to replace DS on that quest?

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Yeah they're replying to my comment, hopefully that explains it. Would make great sense to replace the gap that was Divine Seal. Just gotta hope and see if that's the case.

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Originally Posted by Vaelin

Yeah they're replying to my comment, hopefully that explains it. Would make great sense to replace the gap that was Divine Seal. Just gotta hope and see if that's the case.

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It would make sense, so hopefully that is the case.

edit: Makes me curious what's gonna be moved to replace my leeches. :)

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Originally Posted by joannaluttrell

Ok, someone on redit suggested that maybe it was moved to job quest to replace DS. It was level 40 in the media release video, so.... maybe it was just moved over to replace DS on that quest?

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That was me, and I really hope I am right about that.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

We'll find out soon enough where everything falls. I'm sort of in a place where I'm blocking my eyes and ears and chanting "LALALALA" when it comes to further WHM speculation since we're going to be hands-on in another day or so.

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It's definitely for the best at this point. Looking forward to seeing what's under the hood of each healer.

Going to hold out hope for moved to Job actions. It makes sense, otherwise they might actually have to like...

Like make a new skill... to replace Divine Seal. Can't have that. Or I guess they could just give the player a fancy new HQ weapon instead. "Sorry you don't get a new skill to play with, here have this."

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Originally Posted by Entilper

That was me, and I really hope I am right about that.

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I hope so too *crosses toes, fingers and all appendages available*

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Originally Posted by fantasticm

Going to hold out hope for moved to Job actions. It makes sense, otherwise they might actually have to like...

Like make a new skill... to replace Divine Seal. Can't have that.

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Perish the thought!

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Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

Who cares if most healers don't DPS in dungeons?

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You must be new here. Feel free to check any of the 1347584998 threads about lazy healers who don't DPS, which for the most part refers to DF instances.

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Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

AST and SCH get BOTH their utilities to increase party DPS AND their personal DPS. With all of the ways to regenerate MP for other members, I'm EXTREMELY skeptical that MP efficiency will play a meaningful role in how much either healer can DPS in 4.0. Maybe I'm wrong though. When has FFXIV ever let us down?? ;)

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I don't play AST, but do main SCH, and looking at their toolkits, I don't see how their personal DPS can even come close the WHM. Numbers will need to be ran of course, but going off theory, I just don't see it. If you have all three healers leveled, or even one other to compare to WHM, based off of theory alone though, I just don't see it. Their raid utility though does still surpass WHM simply because WHM cannot buff the DMG of others. Apparently that's what everyone wants, and I doubt they will ever get it, unless the devs find a way to incorporate an ability like Reflect.

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Originally Posted by fantasticm

Going to hold out hope for moved to Job actions. It makes sense, otherwise they might actually have to like...

Like make a new skill... to replace Divine Seal. Can't have that. Or I guess they could just give the player a fancy new HQ weapon instead. "Sorry you don't get a new skill to play with, here have this."

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HERETIC! I mean ahem, quite. But true enough. It was a level 42 conjurer skill I think so its in the right range but that does come off as yet another lazy solution to fill in the gaps they left when they emptied a quarter of our kit into the new job move system. Better than nothing I suppose, if it turns out to be true.

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Originally Posted by BroodingFicus

HERETIC! I mean ahem, quite. But true enough. It was a level 42 conjurer skill I think so its in the right range but that does come off as yet another lazy solution to fill in the gaps they left when they emptied a quarter of our kit into the new job move system. Better than nothing I suppose, if it turns out to be true.

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Speaking of filling the gaps, I haven't seen the screenshot myself, but have they adjusted the levels at which CNJ gains new skills? If Cure III gets moved to Job actions, wouldn't there be a HUGE dearth in skills WHM gets while leveling up (aside from Job quests)?? After they get Cure II at level 30, Stoneskin is gone and Shroud of Saints has been moved to cross role. With Cure III out of the picture, next up is Aero II at level 46.

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Originally Posted by fantasticm

Speaking of filling the gaps, I haven't seen the screenshot myself, but have they adjusted the levels at which CNJ gains new skills? If Cure III gets moved to Job actions, wouldn't there be a HUGE dearth in skills WHM gets while leveling up (aside from Job quests)?? After they get Cure II at level 30, Stoneskin is gone and Shroud of Saints has been moved to cross role. With Cure III out of the picture, next up is Aero II at level 46.

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That seems to be the case.

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Originally Posted by fantasticm

Speaking of filling the gaps, I haven't seen the screenshot myself, but have they adjusted the levels at which CNJ gains new skills? If Cure III gets moved to Job actions, wouldn't there be a HUGE dearth in skills WHM gets while leveling up (aside from Job quests)?? After they get Cure II at level 30, Stoneskin is gone and Shroud of Saints has been moved to cross role. With Cure III out of the picture, next up is Aero II at level 46.

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I think they learn Cure III at level 40 now and it is not being made into a job skill.

*SE reads thread* Why use Plenary when we have Cure III

SE: Good question! *removes cure III*
SE: Problem solved! We rock!

Sarcasm aside... maybe they used the Cure III effect for Plenary and that was Plenary in the trailer? =/

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

I think they learn Cure III at level 40 now.

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Right, if it's taking Divine Seal's place so the level 40 WHM quest actually has something to give you. I'm talking purely of the skills you get automatically from leveling.

Sorry if this has already been posted, only checked the last few pages. But there's some new, updated tooltips from E3/Susano:
https://imgur.com/gallery/5RYol

My take on it:
* If I'm reading the tooltip right and PI is a full party heal even for those without confession stacks... this is much better. Still RNG gated but basically a free, empowered medica/assize you can use whenever it procs.
* Lilies are much better, putting them on "OK" tier. 100% proc from C2 and 50% from C1... you can force it if you need it and it will come up at an OK rate otherwise (provided at least occasional cure casts are needed).
* Secret of the Lilies II seems decent in the same way Freecure is decent; nice if it happens (which if it only has a % chance of happening on a crit won't be often) but nothing that really matters.
* What that leaves is... power creep from the other healers. Hopefully diurnal's potency bonus gets nixed.
* Cross role system is still terrible to WHM...

Hmm. What's all the fuss with Cure 3? Hasn't a major part of the dismay towards WHM been that giving WHM more heals instead of raid utility a major flaw? You feel like they just keep pruning WHM? So will the argument now be, "not only did they not receive raid utility, but they also took away Cure 3"? It seems that the arguments adapt according to the tooltip. Interesting.

I've only done EX primals as far as more-difficult content goes, and the best use I got out of it was when both myself and the MT and/or OT needed to be healed. Due to mechanics and heavy movement, I could never reliably cure all of those who needed it, and it frustrated me to no end when players would run out of range, and felt like a total waste of MP. Overcure, was also very unreliable. In short, I've NEVER needed this ability unless I wanted to increase my overheal % or waste MP. I've brought back myself and 7 others from the brink of death many times without it, and will continue to do so.

On a more friendly note, perhaps with the upcoming elimination of the class system in a future expansion, perhaps it was indeed moved to job skills.

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Originally Posted by xNewbx

After seeing the new changes, I'm excited for the WHM. I do admit the integration with the Lillies and how they get used kind of upsets me (looks.. boring?). But I can already see how the overall WHM skills fits my play style perfectly.
I'm someone who who prefers to DPS as much as I can. The WHM will be able to just that. I don't want to boost others people's damage; I want to boost my own. Sitting back and watching others do the work isn't exactly exciting.
Keeping people alive while DPS'ing 24/7 looks easier than ever.

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Yay positivity! I had to wade through a lot of posts to find yours :) I'm excited too because like you, WHM seems to fit my playstyle now more than ever. Have to get my hands on it first of course, but I do hope others find their love again after getting their robes dirty.

I have to echo about not caring about boosting other people's damage. I love knowing that I can cause so much damage while also being able to keep a party alive. It is just such a fun job to play, and not difficult to grasp.

And, hm, stone 4 nerfed...

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Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

So, the BRD / MCH change is a buff. Most fights will have 1 minute or even 1.5 minutes of free mage's ballad, with no detriment to BRD / MCH damage output. That's about 10x more than I EVER heard ballad even in A12S. We also don't know if RDM will have a combo or proc to gain MP in the final build. My guess is that they will. Who cares if most healers don't DPS in dungeons? Why would that need to have ANY impact on what the toolkit should look like for balanced healer design?

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let's consider your numbers.... the new MP regen (unless the numbers changed) is 30 sec up time every 3min. The avg raid fight is 8-10min. If you used the utility each time it was off CD starting at the beginning of the fight you'd have a total up time of 1- 1min 30 sec. Meanwhile CURRENT mage's ballad can be up during battle for 1min 45 sec and it would take 3min for you to regen brd's mp during combat (not anything close to the 10x times you suggested). The only advantage the new system has over the current is no dps lose....but there is significant MP potential lost in the new system.

RDM change at the last minute to include an MP regen mech? You think this is likely based on what?:confused:

The fact that you don't see the correlation between most healers not dpsing in dungeon and raid dps, says you've not been paying close enough attention.

If most healers DO not dps in dungeons.... what makes you think when those same healers enter a RAID that they are gonna change their mindset and start dpsing when the content is harder and requires more attention??

Its always about numbers. AST card system at its BEST is still not enough to displace a healers personal dps, so until you get more healers to dps it DOESN'T matter if AST's card system offers that non-dpsing healer 3-5% raid dps! Simple example to help you out.

Assume a raid DPS of 22k with AST's buffs, which means 640-1048 added dps (3-5% raid dps increase). If the AST has 0 personal dps that would mean all a WHM(any dpsing healer really) would have to do is 640-1048 personal dps and have the same total raid dps contribution that this non-dpsing AST contributed. Any AST that is outputting personal dps less than 1.3% of the total raid dps CAN be displaced by a healer able to contribute 3% of raid dps WITHOUT balance!

And this is the case for the vast majority of healers..... they don't dps! If the community at Large were a Healer DPSing community THEN it would be a different story...

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Apparently the dev team actually wanted to remove protect from the game too lol.


http://twinfinite.net/2017/06/ffxiv-interview-e3-2017/

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they could have kept it and nerfed it! instead of it being 15% added defs nerf it to 5%. Or they could have gone the PvP route of making it a buff that doesn't last 30min but only a few seconds with high mitigation and be a CD!



Also WHM's Cure III is not a JOB action; it's a class action, notice you don't see Fluid Aura, Repose etc, are we gonna consider they removed all those too?

Balance is still 20%, so there goes that :/