"Fix" Speed Runs? How about fixing the real issue?

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Originally Posted by CaZx

I have seen so many threads on these forums from people bitching about how the endgame is not sustainable due to the fact that the repair costs associated with running dungeons far outweighs the reward for those dungeons...so what you end up with is a large gil sink that drains money from the economy.

Some of you want the best of both worlds...you want to quick run the dungeons over and over...but you also want enormous rewards for skipping the majority of the dungeons..sorry it shouldn't work that way. In fact, I think they should tie the tome reward to the percentage of mobs you kill and if you clear the dungeon maybe provide a tome bonus on top of the gil earned from killing the mobs.

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What? Maybe I didn't get my point across clearly enough...

If they just make them drop more gil, then that's fine. I know I'm still going to sneak past and skip whatever I can, and so will most people. Because we're running those dungeons to gear up by getting tomes. Nothing will change except I might make my money back from repairs. That's it. It's still not worth killing any trash mobs that can be skipped. So that's a stupid fix if the goal is to make it so people want to kill the trash. If the goal was to just make killing trash less of a gil sink, then yes, just making them drop enough gil would be smart. But that's not what Camate was talking about. They want to make trash worth killing, not less painful on the wallet when you do have to kill some. Get what I'm saying?

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Originally Posted by TwoEggs

only hotfix I wanna see is more gil drop on enemies. . I mean in AK u get 1 gil for killing mobs that's just a sick joke to do at lvl 50 I rarelt come out of that place making enough to repair my gear lets do 100 gil per kill .. at lvl 50 that makes sense.. I know that u can make money other ways but some people like me who are fathers and have real jobs don't have the time to make gil other ways in such fashion.

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So true, you shouldn't run a deficit to complete progressive content.

How about you fix leechers and other people that are actually cheating first. People who get rewards for doing NOTHING.

May be best to run CM 100 times this week till you are totally sick and ready to quit this game. I have feeling they will do a super nasty hot fix that will make sure your run is a minimum of 90 mnts long, almost three times the normal run and bosses now will drop 5 tomes and the rest you have to earn from killing trash mobs... Get it done, done and done, and take a break till patch 2.2. or 2.5 lol when there are more than 1 dungeons to run for endgame.

They need to make it so that after you reach level 50, all dungeons grant a small number of the DL related tomes when running them with a first timer, as well as added bonuses for running 100% completion. Preforming tasks could contribute to the overall grade, examples being opening all the treasure chests, killing all the enemies, and using a certain mechanic against a boss (Sastasha: blocking at least one wave of adds from popping by interacting with the bubbles, Toto-Rak = destroying the tail on the mega boss, etc.) These tasks could be displayed on the duty list when you enter a dungeon, and be checked off as you complete them. And if you reach 100%, getting an S rank, you get a silver treasure chest with contents from an earlier boss in the dungeon.

Make each trash mob drop 1 tome of philosophy, problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Genjisamurai

8-10 hours a day?!? Is this game a full time job to you? lmao

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unemployed no jobs in my area so ya pretty much got noting else to do. Too i can get a job somewhere in my area :) Then i guess i wont be playing this game much besides mondays for coil lol.

My guess is they will make it a lot worse, like Fusion said, have to clear all mobs togo to next area and people will likely quit from boredom.

Just make the mobs drop a couple of tomes. Everyone will run the dungeons how they should be ran then.

Guess it's grind time over the weekend to get atleast full DL before the hit the hotfix "hammer"

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Originally Posted by Noata

Wow the entitlement here.... I am struggling to think of a game that actually gave something worht while for trash mobs... I mean the whole reason we called them trash mobs... was due to trashy loot. Are you guys serious? I mean I get that you were TOTALLY exploiting the game and they fixed it. They reduced repair costs. so go kill trash mobs. I do not get at all where your coming from

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this is smartest comment in thread

We should get a treasure box after each pack it should drop 1 allagin tin piece hahaha

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Originally Posted by MisterChubu

Heh, the thing that most people aren't realizing is that a lot of these people complaining, are either A. New to gaming completely, or B. former WoW players that are used to easy mode. I sincerely hope SE doesn't "tweak" the game into a carebear, faceroll, WoW, piece of crap.

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Lol

Stormstout Brewery Gold is more challenging than any of the content in this game will ever be, I am not sure who you are calling carebear and faceroll when this game is about getting one shot or outgearing content. that is pretty faceroll. and giving everyone the same gearing path for the best gear in the game regardless of their character progression is pretty carebear.

how do interrupt telegraphed casts and not stand in red circle

game too hard, nerf pls

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this is smartest comment in thread

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i dont mean to toot my own horn, but i'm glad that you agree, this post is definitely the best post in this thread

Anticipating: In order to get the full amount of Philosophy/Mythology Tombs... you must kill all trash mobs. YEYES!

Just my 2 cents.

Give trash mobs in lvl50 instances a 25% chance to drop 1-10 tomes each, individually rolled for each player.

The real solution is to just give people their i90 gear for completing the story quest, and a beta key for the next big mmo.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

Lol

Stormstout Brewery Gold is more challenging than any of the content in this game will ever be, I am not sure who you are calling carebear and faceroll when this game is about getting one shot or outgearing content. that is pretty faceroll. and giving everyone the same gearing path for the best gear in the game regardless of their character progression is pretty carebear.

how do interrupt telegraphed casts and not stand in red circle

game too hard, nerf pls



i dont mean to toot my own horn, but i'm glad that you agree, this post is definitely the best post in this thread

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Oh joy people pretending that challenge runs where some sort of super duper hard mode... (they aren't)

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Originally Posted by Delorean

Lol

Stormstout Brewery Gold is more challenging than any of the content in this game will ever be, I am not sure who you are calling carebear and faceroll when this game is about getting one shot or outgearing content. that is pretty faceroll. and giving everyone the same gearing path for the best gear in the game regardless of their character progression is pretty carebear.

how do interrupt telegraphed casts and not stand in red circle

game too hard, nerf pls



i dont mean to toot my own horn, but i'm glad that you agree, this post is definitely the best post in this thread

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i dont get why you're making it look like being a carebear has anything to do with avoiding PVE. its not like its hard to tackle scripted content and fights.

on that note: any of the endgame epic bosses in lineage 2 make WoW raids look tiny and easy, but i digress.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

Lol

Stormstout Brewery Gold is more challenging than any of the content in this game will ever be, I am not sure who you are calling carebear and faceroll when this game is about getting one shot or outgearing content. that is pretty faceroll. and giving everyone the same gearing path for the best gear in the game regardless of their character progression is pretty carebear.

how do interrupt telegraphed casts and not stand in red circle

game too hard, nerf pls



i dont mean to toot my own horn, but i'm glad that you agree, this post is definitely the best post in this thread

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Exactly the reason i hate WoW, the players, they think WoW is SO MUCH BETTER than other games and that they must automatically be better but a quick Lodestone search reveals he's never been in BC which is SO HARD!!! and is one of the people that consider AK or Titan to be "End Game" and also has gimp class levels b/c they don't understand how support actions work. Npnp!

Noooo don't take my trash away! How will I spiritbond now Q_Q

Prat with all the cool kids!!!

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Originally Posted by misterrpg

More WoW whiny babies that cry when the game doesn't hand them everything they want.

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If the internet was high school, you would be one of these people who would get bullied and beaten up everyday for acting all smart when they actually aint got shit.
Countless MMo's from before the times of WoW offered something for killing trash especially because they are conscious that players are quick to exploit flawed design.

The point of trash is slowing the progress of a given group and give variety in the instance building up to the boss encounters.
Intelligent game design rewards the desire to willingly tackle the trash by giving non-gamebreaking rewards for those who dont skip it, such as:

vendor items, low amount of currency, random green level drops (ilvel 55 or so would be relevant here), super rare blue level drops (ilvel 60 or so), ultra rare ilevl 70 drops in the harder instances, mega rare cute pets, etc etc etc...

Nothing that makes or break the economy or the gear balance of those who get lucky, and miraculously shuts up thousands of players who are frustrated that when they are grouped with noobs through an ungated duty finder, they can spend 2 hours in Ak at Demon Wall to make nothing but 5-10 tomes for the first boss, about 25 gil (1 gil per mob) while leaving with a repair of 1000 gil plus.

It's flawed design all over the place, and if they were listening to obnoxious little douches like you we would still be in 1.0 with them thinking the game is great as it is.

Each trash mob drops a single tome. Would it really make that much difference? They all have a 5% to be a capped tome. But gauranteed 1 uncapped tome at least. (referring to capped and uncapped as i STILL get the names mixed up!)

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Originally Posted by Terabyt3

Each trash mob drops a single tome. Would it really make that much difference? They all have a 5% to be a capped tome. But gauranteed 1 uncapped tome at least. (referring to capped and uncapped as i STILL get the names mixed up!)

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No that would be dumb. 1-5 Gil per trash mob would be nice. 1 gil per trash pack? Something. Anything.

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Originally Posted by Brox

No that would be dumb. 1-5 Gil per trash mob would be nice. 1 gil per trash pack? Something. Anything.

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Huh?! What are you talking about?! Mobs already drop 1gil each. They are talking about making them drop more to gove players an incentive to kill them.

Since farming tomes is the biggest grind before coil and titan how can you possibly think mobs dropping 1 tome instead of 1 gil be dumb?

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

It's worse than that, they actually yield NEGATIVE gil because of the cost of repairs for clearing them. You're punished by clearing them and receive absolutely nothing for your effort.

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No you don't, you get one gil per mob. Repair costs were lowered 1 run does not.. damage your gear enough.

@OP Every game posts like this, no I don't need instant gratification. Completion of the instance and boss loot is fine. Some people actually enjoy the immersion of fighting your way to the reward.

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Originally Posted by Jarlax

No you don't, you get one gil per mob. Repair costs were lowered 1 run does not.. damage your gear enough.

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I lol'd. Another exemple of a defender of the elistist widow and orphan who doesnt know what he's talking about.
Repair cost were lowered because it was preposterously high; however it is still high enough to cost much more than what the run yields, 20 fold.

The issue in FFXIV is that the gear damage is based on mob XP as opposed to player death. if the standard deterioration was reasonable and the death were highly punitive, then your elitist attitude would work: "dont be bad and your bill will be acceptable", in which case no need to change the trash drops.

But the flawed design makes the whole topic very relevant right now. And your immersion argument isnt even remotely on topic: just another spike attempt of proving how awesome you want people to think you are.

He's just saying he enjoys doing the dungeon as intended lol not trying to say he's awesome because of it, I have seen several people say they dislike the speed runs, SE didn't kill the AK speed runs at all they just changed how you have to do it, i see several people still doing it.

Your gear repair is also only as expensive as the cost of the DM which can range from 0 gil if you buy it with seals to 350 gil if you buy it from the NPC. If you get a few Allagan Pieces from the chests this should cover it.

He may have said it in a slightly cocky manner yes, but that's typical on forums b/c everyone else likes to do so it rubs off on each other and often times they feel the need to do so to prove their point.

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Originally Posted by Terabyt3

Since farming tomes is the biggest grind before coil and titan how can you possibly think mobs dropping 1 tome instead of 1 gil be dumb?

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Because you'd get a piece of Darklight gear every run?

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Originally Posted by Brox

Because you'd get a piece of Darklight gear every run?

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If each trashmob in AK dropped 1 tome 100% that's only 78 extra tomes not enough for even a DL accessory every run?

How about 3-5% chance of each trash mob dropping a bronze piece (rolled for each character)? On average, that would be 3-5 extra gil per trash mob per player. Another option: Chests having tomestones in them which appear after killing certain packs.

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Originally Posted by Brox

Because you'd get a piece of Darklight gear every run?

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What DL gear goes that cheaply?!

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Originally Posted by Jaize

If each trashmob in AK dropped 1 tome 100% that's only 78 extra tomes not enough for even a DL accessory every run?

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^This basically.

Not only would it help the constant CM grindathon but also another way to get tomes would help the potash/coke grind for crafting.

AK giving 158 tomes in total if you clear all the trash each trash dropping 1 tome. Not unreasonable and incentive to kill em. Job done.



Edit: Ran out of max posts. I got ye Jaize! I was agreeing with you that an extra 78 possible tomes in ak would not break the dungeon and would be incentive to clear some trash out of there! it's not enough to buy a piece per run but grants more than running cm if you clear everything.

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Originally Posted by Terabyt3

Each trash mob drops a single tome. Would it really make that much difference? They all have a 5% to be a capped tome. But gauranteed 1 uncapped tome at least. (referring to capped and uncapped as i STILL get the names mixed up!)

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This is priceless.

You knew it would come, I mean really walking JUST behind a mob in CM and it doesn't agro isn't something I think they envisioned. Now they have a better handled on the things that stopped us from playing at the start they will look at these things. Does it suck, only a little because really a group that knows what its doing can do it the normal way in almost the same amount of time.

All is seems a hotfix does it make us take longer to kill the same trash. Giving us only one myth stone dungeon and tons of mobs to force kill does not make us any happier. I agree you come out of the dungeon even with 0 wipes and need more than 5 gil to repair the gear. Make it so all the chests we open give allagan pieces to all party members instead of one or two. I've seen one chest give 2 sets of 7 to one person. How is that even or fair?

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Originally Posted by Terabyt3

What DL gear goes that cheaply?!



^This basically.

Not only would it help the constant CM grindathon but also another way to get tomes would help the potash/coke grind for crafting.

AK giving 158 tomes in total if you clear all the trash each trash dropping 1 tome. Not unreasonable and incentive to kill em. Job done.

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Terabizzle you took my quote out of context, my quote was a reply to Brox's quote that was a reply to your quote!

I just hope they don't make the tomes grinder slower, as in less tomes per hour... That will piss a lot of people off... and is totally uncalled for, it's already annoying how repetitive and little rewarding it is. ><

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

Trash mobs are a waste of time that yield no items or gil.

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It's called a time sink.
Time sinks are how MMO developers who use subscription fees keep their players playing longer to produce more profit.
Without trash it would just be arena fights, not a dungeon.
There should be at least time forms of rewards for trash.

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Originally Posted by Seraphita

It's called a time sink.
Time sinks are how MMO developers who use subscription fees keep their players playing longer to produce more profit.
Without trash it would just be arena fights, not a dungeon.
There should be at least time forms of rewards for trash.

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Killing trash is fine and fun, but I believe dungeon's lenght are alright as they are right now. they do not need to make em longer. Maybe on future content? but also make em more rewarding if they are gonna last longer. Anyway.

Have trash mobs have a chance to drop rare items or crafting items, etc.
Do NOT give tomes. Tomes are for completing the dungeons. It will be exploited to get gear without fighting bosses.