BLM

Is it worth socketing +crit rate materia into the gear? For I know, we have one of the lowest crit rates basically, does anyone know if its worth it or just socket determination?

The potency of the Thundercloud Procs is determined about the base hit potency of each Thunder Skill and its over time damage.
Thunder 3 does more initial damage and lasts 3 seconds longer, which is in fact 1 tick, thats where this high potency comes from.
Same for Thunder 2 compared to 1.

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Originally Posted by NZ_Player

i think more than most here are assuming hardcasting a higher rank spell will do more overall damage
this is incorrect

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I cast Thunder III cause it looks better.
I'm also fairly certain things like trying to hold out a thundercloud proc to reduce dot clipping or maximizing your firestarter procs by interrupting your fire 1 casts (or especially blizzard III when going into regen) makes a much bigger dps difference than this.

The tooltip on the thundercloud buff implies square probably meant for thundercloud to be determined by what was hard casting. If it's not that in-game, they'll probably fix it.
Thunder 2 hardcast + Thunder 3 thundercloud proc might add something interesting if the proc wasn't so damned low. I think this whole debate is a bit overstated, even for serious min-maxers.

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Originally Posted by NZ_Player

i think more than most here are assuming hardcasting a higher rank spell will do more overall damage
this is incorrect

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That is an issue caused by awful localisation.

In most of the FF games ( maybe in every? ) you always replace your magical attacks - Fire 2 replaces Fire 1 ( or Feura replaces Feuer, don't know the actual English terms - Fire, Firera? ), Vitra replaces Vitra etc.

BUT in this game, all of these spells are different. Fire 2 is not just Fire 1 with more potency, it is a different attack. So with Cure 1 and Cure 2 and every other spell.

That's quite a big mistake they made when developing the game in German or English.

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Originally Posted by Hystify

Further testing on dummies also shows that a Thunder III thundercloud proc does more damage than a Thunder thundercloud proc. In my case, Thunder III does around ~750 dmg, whereas Thunder only does ~500 dmg.

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That's good information - I'll have to do tests myself, but if it's true I'll have to change my setup.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

I cast Thunder III cause it looks better.

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100% agree. I'd like a Master Spark BM skill... very, very disappointed there's none currently.

Actually ACN is not required, I only leveled my archer to 15 and got my BMG unlocked. I assume its either or in this case.

There is actually a guide I've been working on over at Ffxivrealm.com, I'll just leave the link here :) hopefully some of you find it helpful!

http://ffxivrealm.com/threads/black-...-2#post-112880

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Originally Posted by SuperZykra

Actually ACN is not required, I only leveled my archer to 15 and got my BMG unlocked. I assume its either or in this case.

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Only archer unlocks black mage. I read that it was ACN when I first started in beta 4. After I got my THM to 25, I took a break and leveled ACN to 15. When I got lvl 30 THM, the job quest was red saying I needed level 15 ARC for BLM. I'm not complaining though, at least I had Psysick early on.

I can vouch for that. My Arcanist was only level 3 when I unlocked Black Mage. All you need is Archer 15. Which is dumb in my opinion. What does an Archer have to do with a Black Mage? Arcanist would definitely make more sense. But that isn't the case.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

I cast Thunder III cause it looks better.
I'm also fairly certain things like trying to hold out a thundercloud proc to reduce dot clipping or maximizing your firestarter procs by interrupting your fire 1 casts (or especially blizzard III when going into regen) makes a much bigger dps difference than this.

The tooltip on the thundercloud buff implies square probably meant for thundercloud to be determined by what was hard casting. If it's not that in-game, they'll probably fix it.
Thunder 2 hardcast + Thunder 3 thundercloud proc might add something interesting if the proc wasn't so damned low. I think this whole debate is a bit overstated, even for serious min-maxers.

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If you read the tooltips for Thunder I - III you would see that the potency increases with each rank that is hard cast to trigger Thundercloud.

That being said, it is still optimal to use Thunder I because it syncs up with the final tick of regen in Umbral Ice allowing you to maximize your casts of Fire. If you're casting Thunder II or III during regen phase you're clipping regen and wasting time you could be casting Fire instead.

Now if you went into regen phase with Firestarter, you would probably see a DPS increase using Thunder II over Thunder I since you have to hold off on Fire III for a few seconds to get the final tick of regen. Consuming Firestarter before regen phase is ideal because if you hard cast Fire III with 3 stacks of Umbral Ice you can cheat a hastened Fire.

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Originally Posted by Foullacy

If you read the tooltips for Thunder I - III you would see that the potency increases with each rank that is hard cast to trigger Thundercloud.

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The tooltip is flawed.

Thunder I -> Thundercloud proc my Thunder III hits for avg 711, low 691, high 739
Thunder III -> Thundercloud proc my Thunder III hits for avg 706, low 696, high 735

Differing numbers, but not large enough to be worth 100 potency. Thundercloud's potency is dependent on which Thunder you spend the proc on. For fun I hardcasted TIII and used the proc on TI, it hit for 495

Did a few test on dummies.

Thunder III

779
803
817
806
1173 (crit)
761

Thunder I


758
802
764
764
786

Not enough cast to mathematically prove anything, but it's enough to convince me that Thunder III Thunderstorm does indeed do more damage than Thunder I.

Irrelevant anyway due to the fact that Thunder I is the ideal filler for regen phase.

Hi fellow BLM, just wanted some info. Been at 50 for a while now and obviously ive got flare. My question is how hard is your Flare spells hitting for? Mine seems very weak only hitting group for maybe 400-450 max, even using my 20% dmg buff im lucky to hit 500. I used to think it was ok until my WHM friend told me his healer aoe does 700 dmg.
Am I doing something wrong or is flare just broken?

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Originally Posted by CarlosDanger

Hi fellow BLM, just wanted some info. Been at 50 for a while now and obviously ive got flare. My question is how hard is your Flare spells hitting for? Mine seems very weak only hitting group for maybe 400-450 max, even using my 20% dmg buff im lucky to hit 500. I used to think it was ok until my WHM friend told me his healer aoe does 700 dmg.
Am I doing something wrong or is flare just broken?

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For a ManaBrurn-type spell it seems very weak, perhaps they should consider changing the spell to match potency with a variable towards how much mana is spent or something.

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Originally Posted by CarlosDanger

Hi fellow BLM, just wanted some info. Been at 50 for a while now and obviously ive got flare. My question is how hard is your Flare spells hitting for? Mine seems very weak only hitting group for maybe 400-450 max, even using my 20% dmg buff im lucky to hit 500. I used to think it was ok until my WHM friend told me his healer aoe does 700 dmg.
Am I doing something wrong or is flare just broken?

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If you're casting Flare, make sure you're casting it with three stacks of Umbral Fire.

Flare is actually a pretty hard ability, doing CM speed runs I typically cast Flare, hit Transpose, cast Blizzard II twice to get three stacks of Umbral, Fire III the highest target, then Flare right as its going off to get a hastened Flare with three stacks of Astral Fire. I feel that this does more damage than just using Fire II, but it requires you to be in melee range. My flares typically hit for 1350.

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Originally Posted by CarlosDanger

Hi fellow BLM, just wanted some info. Been at 50 for a while now and obviously ive got flare. My question is how hard is your Flare spells hitting for? Mine seems very weak only hitting group for maybe 400-450 max, even using my 20% dmg buff im lucky to hit 500. I used to think it was ok until my WHM friend told me his healer aoe does 700 dmg.
Am I doing something wrong or is flare just broken?

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with Raging Strikes & AF3, i've seen flare popping nearly 1,9k crit on praetorium trash.

ok, stupid question but, when i lvl archer for Blm how far do i need to lvl it for usefulness? i am assuming 15 but not sure.:confused:

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Originally Posted by Midian

ok, stupid question but, when i lvl archer for Blm how far do i need to lvl it for usefulness? i am assuming 15 but not sure.:confused:

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15 to unlock the Job quest, 34 if you want Quelling Strikes.

I dont think quelling strikes is that useful.

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Originally Posted by Teranis

Maybe I'm misreading the thunder 2 and 3 tooltips but it looks to me if you were to use thunder 2 in your rotation your thundercloud procs will be nerfed at thunder 2's potency no matter which thunder you use.

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Correct. Your Thunder 3 instand dmg will be that of a full thunder 2 BUT the subsequent tics will be at the potency of thunder3 and the next proc during those tics will also be that of thunder3.
That is why it's better to have a rotation which includes thunder 2 only to have more mana and cast time for fire but use thunder 3 on procs since they cost no mana and no cast time.

What's the ideal rotation or more recommended rotations?

At what level should we start using materia on weapons and gear and shoild we only be using the INT materia or mix with CRIT? Thanks for any advice.

Materia on stuff below lvl50 seems a bit wasteful because you change it so fast.
And then at that point you don't have materia slots on anything except the super-expensive crafted stuff.

I'd go for crit, mostly.

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Originally Posted by kajii_

What's the ideal rotation or more recommended rotations?

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Did you literally skip every post in this thread?

Thunder III while boss is being pulled, SwiftCast + Fire III, Fire until around 900 mana, Blizzard III, Thunder I, Fire III Fire until 900 mana, repeat. Obviously utilizing Firestarter and Thunderstorm procs as they occur.

i've skimmed the thread but not sure if it has been mentioned yet:

now that i have blizzard 3 do i really need blizzard 1 on my bar anymore?

from experience i haven't needed to cast it, and they seem like they would do comparable dps if i did need to spam either one for some reason.

Thunder III > Virus > Raging Strikes > Swiftcast > Fire III > Lethargy (for gcd cooldown) > Fire + Firestarter until under 1000 mana > Blizzard III > Try for Flare if you can get Regen to kick in right after using it (Yes its possible i use it almost every time) > Transpose > Convert > Repeat

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Originally Posted by Aresaka

Thunder III > Virus > Raging Strikes > Swiftcast > Fire III > Lethargy (for gcd cooldown) > Fire + Firestarter until under 1000 mana > Blizzard III > Try for Flare if you can get Regen to kick in right after using it (Yes its possible i use it almost every time) > Transpose > Convert > Repeat

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You're bad.

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Originally Posted by Aresaka

Thunder III > Virus > Raging Strikes > Swiftcast > Fire III > Lethargy (for gcd cooldown) > Fire + Firestarter until under 1000 mana > Blizzard III > Try for Flare if you can get Regen to kick in right after using it (Yes its possible i use it almost every time) > Transpose > Convert > Repeat

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This is horrible. Why would you even bother wasting time using flare with Umbral III up?

I believe that what Aresaka is referring to is that there is a split-second between when Flare casts and when it applies AFIII, much like Fire spells have. During that split-second, if your timing is right, you can get a tick of UI to go off, meaning you go from 0 mana to (1 tick of UI regen) mana and can thus continue your rotation with no downtime. Although, if this is the case, I see no reason for the Convert in the rotation...

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Originally Posted by Shisou

I believe that what Aresaka is referring to is that there is a split-second between when Flare casts and when it applies AFIII, much like Fire spells have. During that split-second, if your timing is right, you can get a tick of UI to go off, meaning you go from 0 mana to (1 tick of UI regen) mana and can thus continue your rotation with no downtime. Although, if this is the case, I see no reason for the Convert in the rotation...

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So what? Your flare will still do 30% the damage it would do under Astral instead of Umbral. Even worse, since you're starting from zero mana + 1 UI tick, you're starting your fire rotation with much less mana. It's just a terrible use of flare.

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Originally Posted by Bablioteca

(...)now that i have blizzard 3 do i really need blizzard 1 on my bar anymore?

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Nope, as long as you're managing your rotation correctly and never dipping under the mana you need for Blizzaga during your burn phase.

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Originally Posted by Youmu

So what? Your flare will still do 30% the damage it would do under Astral instead of Umbral. Even worse, since you're starting from zero mana + 1 UI tick, you're starting your fire rotation with much less mana. It's just a terrible use of flare.

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Wasn't saying that I agreed with the logic, just that I believe that's what was being said.

Are you guys as lucky as me with Thundercloud procs?
I'm lucky to see one a fight ; ; /cry

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Originally Posted by HitaruHotaru

Are you guys as lucky as me with Thundercloud procs?
I'm lucky to see one a fight ; ; /cry

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By "once a fight" I assume you're referring to boss fights?

If I don't get a procc at least once per cast of Thunder, something is off. I've had as many as 4 proccs in a row once.

I'll usually see one thundercloud proc every 3 casts.

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Originally Posted by Bablioteca

i've skimmed the thread but not sure if it has been mentioned yet:

now that i have blizzard 3 do i really need blizzard 1 on my bar anymore?

from experience i haven't needed to cast it, and they seem like they would do comparable dps if i did need to spam either one for some reason.

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I still use B1 on Trash during UI phase. It's exactly long enough to cast after B3 to give you the second tick to go full mana. So when you're fighting trash where Thunder is a waste of time, once you go out of mana it's B3 > B1 > F3.

First time MMO player here unless you count my week on DCUO(blah). I enjoy being a THM soon to be BLM and I don't see many other's on the Leviathan server :-) I have lots of fun creating "beginning the fight" macros that help my groups Tank for his playing style. I do wish people would put more time into learning and teaching the beginning levels of THM as it seems to me it's all about level 50 rotations, well some of us have families and can't spend every minute of every day playing FFXIV so it would be nice help the newer players with beginning rotations to help with the lower level dungeons. I've learned on my own and learned the hard way by doing it wrong in the first few dungeons.

starting a fight rotation

Blizzard 1 or 2(cast heavy)
Thunder 1 or 2(DoT: Damage over Time)
Blizzard 1 or 2(keeps the UI: (Umbral Ice) going)
Aero 1 or 2
Transpose
Fire 1 until around 100 mp
Transpose

I repeat if needed but usually go into Blizzard/Fire rotation after this

Hope this helps newbies like myself....

Convert is to kick you past 1 tick enough that you'll have full mp by the time you've started casted fire III. I barely use it because its hard to time, i just found it interesting. My usual rotation ends at Blizzard III and loops back around.

I need help. I am level 50, but I do not know a good BLM spell rotation. The ones listed on the forums are incomprehensible. I do not know the abbreviations, I do not know what proc. is, etc. Can someone really lay out a good example for me, simpleton-style, with no greater-than or less-than symbols, etc. THANK YOU!!!!

@Cobalt100

"Proc" is an old mmo term for Programmed Random Occurrence. We talk about Thunder and Fire 3 "procing" when their special effect happens allowing you to cast a free, instant one.

Proc Rules: Never interrupt a cast to use a proc. Never wait a little after landing with Fire 1 to see if it'll proc Fire 3. ABC. Always Be Casting.

Soloing Rotation: It actually doesn't matter. Don't bother starting with blizzard, just burn it - nothing can rochambeau you and win; you're a black mage.

In a group: Thunder 2, Fire 3, Fire 1 untill 900ish mana, Blizzard 3, repeat.
That's not a typo, Thunder 3 is garbage. Longer cast time ruins your rotation for a measly 10 potency and an extra tick you were going to clip anyway. When thunder procs, obviously instant cast Thunder 3, but never for the full cast time.
There's some optional advanced stuff with cooldowns and what-not, but just stay alive and don't pull aggro and people will love you.

Work in progress, so feel free to correct me:

BLM rotation;

Opener: Swiftcast + Fire III --> (Firestarter and thundecloud [Thunder III] procs have prio) Thunder II --> Fire x 3 --> Blizzard III --> [refresh Thunder II if 2 seconds or less remaining] --> Fire III --> Fire x 3 --> repeat