Best DPS class in the game?

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Originally Posted by Eckoh

love when people make claims like that yet do not have proof they did anything but grind in 1.0

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Love when people make claims about other players experiences with few infos on a web page;

and tbh, you guys killed garuda, so what? do you think you are the benchmark of the dpss in ARR? lulz

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Originally Posted by Drex

Love when people make claims about other players experiences with few infos on a web page;

and tbh, you guys killed garuda, so what? do you think you are the benchmark of the dpss in ARR? lulz

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did you watch the video? there was no kiting. that puts you in the 'wrong' category

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Originally Posted by Eckoh

even stationary a black mage is not going to beat me.

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bard is a busy class with a bit of multitasking. it's going to take an exeptional player like yourself to get the most out of it. blackmage is far simpler and more straightforward and for the masses that don't wish to spend the time learning their job it will be the better choice in general.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

I really hope Summoners don't get kicked to the curb for progression given it's the class I leveled and currently bought 2 darklight pieces for =/. I mean, I have the option of scholar but I'd have to start over...

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this is likely to be the case until the class is addressed. no on-demand burst. many things like the stone cocoons in titan can't be dotted up. and little to no actual group utility - at least nothing on the level bard songs. hell, a scholar healer even with the arcanist mana regen tricks still needs bard song since the only aoe heal the class gets heals for less than half of a white mages, gives a shield and costs a LOT more mp to use. in fact all of the scholar specific heals are like this - heal for less, cost as much or more mp meaning more casts meaning you're gonna need bard song when doing fights with unavoidable damage.

I like how this thread turned into Eckoh stroking himself. Really serves to remind me why I stopped seriously raiding a long time ago.

I mean, I'm sure you're a good player, but this is getting out of hand. It's just turning into you flaunting your accomplishments, and at this point has very little to do with the actual point of the thread. Yeah, you killed Garuda that's cool. It's irrelevant though. This entire discussion is irrelevant because the only actual measure of which class is the best DPS can only be done on either a boss with very low/no armor, no resistances (like Patchwerk), or a target dummy.

If we were talking about the most versatile, or most useful DPS then anything else might have a chance at being applicable, but we aren't and so it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Abrasumente

I think you all are overanalyzing this. When it comes to groups, any DPS class is going to be wanted.

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Some DPS classes are more equal then others. It depends on what needs to be done within a dungeon. Claiming all DPS classes to be equal is rather simplistic.

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Originally Posted by Dixa

did you watch the video? there was no kiting. that puts you in the 'wrong' category

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so you are saying that garuda is a stand fight? tank and spank? no moving her from ground aoe? melees can dps her 24/7?

Maybe I used the wrong word "kite", but I think you will be able to get what i meant.

I hope..

as a brief intermission before the undoubtable crapstorm coming

for the claims of "dragoon doesnt do enough DPS to pull agro" it became quickly apparently for my bunch that DPS != agro in the least

if an bard does 50 dps from melee range or 50 dps from full range, and a dragoon does 60 dps (melee range obviously), starting at the same time and all, the dragoon will consistently have -half- the threat of the bard, even having outdpsed them. limit break also seems to generate 0 threat.

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Originally Posted by Windwalker

There is no top-dps... this is not WoW were everyone compares dps. Aslong as you do your teamwork right, dps does not matter. Every job is outfitted with skills to stun mobs that overpower your party. If you're a dps keep in mind to protect your healer from adds and keep damaging bosses.

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Except dps is a very important aspect of fights. Stuff doesn't die if you don't do damage. And if you're not trying to do the most damage you can in a situation, you're not doing it right. You're also very wrong about there being no top dps. Wear your "i pley 2 haev fonn!" goggles all you want, it doesn't change the fact that one class will always be better than another. Always.

And lose the WoW hate ffs, nobody gives a fuck about your bandwagon hate for hugely successful game that set the standard for many things that should be expected in a modern MMO.

Through damage parsing all my instances id have to say Bard as the "BEST DPS" class for DPS.

I play a dragoon, and they're the only class that has ever beaten me as DPS and they always pull consistently high numbers, obviously these cant all simply be good players on these bards as that would be defying the odds.

I'd rather be able to have the utility to heal when the healer makes a mistake or runs out of Mana (and they do, even when bard is using mp regen song). And the CC. And AoE. Does archer have better AoE damage?

Quite frankly, this discussion is moot. Play your class well, and you can out damage 90% of the player base. And the other 10% of the time, your tank can't hold aggro, and the healer asks you to stop doing what you're doing so everything can get along.

Do you really want to be "that guy" who puts ego over smooth runs?

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

Quite frankly, this discussion is moot. Play your class well, and you can out damage 90% of the player base. And the other 10% of the time, your tank can't hold aggro, and the healer asks you to stop doing what you're doing so everything can get along.

Do you really want to be "that guy" who puts ego over smooth runs?

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I really don't understand this mentality. If you play a DPS, shouldn't you want to be competitive with all things equal? Being less DPS in ideal circumstances than another DPS class isn't something I want in a game like this.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

I really don't understand this mentality. If you play a DPS, shouldn't you want to be competitive with all things equal? Being less DPS in ideal circumstances than another DPS class isn't something I want in a game like this.

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All I know is that when the tank and healer died on the last boss, me and my archer friend soloed the boss from 50%. You can't do that with 2 archers. Feels pretty competitive to me.

Good DPS is good. I can already pull aggro from tanks whenever I want... why do I want more damage?

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

I really don't understand this mentality. If you play a DPS, shouldn't you want to be competitive with all things equal? Being less DPS in ideal circumstances than another DPS class isn't something I want in a game like this.

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in reality the classes are close enough the best player will be the best DPS. They are all capable of being number 1 under the right conditions.

So no one voted for Summoner as one of the higher end dps-er? No?

Oh ok, i guess i should just go around the corner and jump my arse off the river for choosing to be a summoner.

:(

Well summoner dps is nice but takes time to get going, as for the egi's the lvl 50 ability was a bit of a letdown (5min cd for 500-600 damage with both pet damage buffs up?). Although i do love Fester its a solid hit with full dots on only problem is u need charges for it but if it didn't have charges I'd say it was to strong then.

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Originally Posted by Eckoh

in reality the classes are close enough the best player will be the best DPS. They are all capable of being number 1 under the right conditions.

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how do you know that? Are you leveled all the dps to 50? or your words are the universal truth? the numbers at endgame dont say the same...

Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread.

Can any character obtain any "job". I started out as a pugilist, does that mean i can only endgame monk at 30 and later or can i just go level the other perquisites to lvl 30 and on and become a black mage or paladin?

You can level a lancer and mara to get a dragoon after becoming a monk yes. Ultimately you can have 50 everything if you want

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Originally Posted by Arcana

how do you know that? Are you leveled all the dps to 50? or your words are the universal truth? the numbers at endgame dont say the same...

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Which numbers? Didn't know there was already a parser or DPS meter available for FFXIV: ARR.

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Originally Posted by Vodomir

Which numbers? Didn't know there was already a parser or DPS meter available for FFXIV: ARR.

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Really? It's been mentioned several times in this thread alone.

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Originally Posted by Vodomir

Which numbers? Didn't know there was already a parser or DPS meter available for FFXIV: ARR.

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I use zam's. I believe multiple are out there

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

So no one voted for Summoner as one of the higher end dps-er? No?

Oh ok, i guess i should just go around the corner and jump my arse off the river for choosing to be a summoner.

:(

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summoner has issues

1) no on demand burst. ther is no logical reason for ruin to even be 80 potency when archers get two dots of greater potency than ours AND have several 150-190 nukes - two of them off the gcd - at the same time

2) debuff limit - in large fates and eventually 24 man raiding since every class has 2-4 debuffs they apply our dots will be knocked off. this means no full power festers. this means we aren't going to be doing our full dps

3) overplayed - everyone and their mother is playing the class vs. the others. i see this more at 40+ than i did 1-30

Yea summoner DPS is just plain bad, iv never seen one do remotely good DPS and i am counting their PET DPS...

I actually find myself a little bit "out of mentality" here.

Strangely enough, in most endgame run - wanderer palace, tonby bossy - doing the right amount of damage, is the thing that determine a good dps job.

I can easily put a mob on full red all the time, but i prefer to focus having it on yellow. I'll do less damage? Yes, of course.

But being the "best" dps means - for me, imho - being able to maximize damages with hate-control, make easier the life of the healer and the tank, ending a fight quick, but not in a messy rushed way.

Being the best isn't a matter of "how much damage i can unleash", but "how much damage I NEED to unleash". It's childish being a show-off, and sadly mostly dps ARE show-offs.

We are that strange thing that can make fights easier, or a total mess. Best DPS achieve the first. Braggy DPS the second.

as i was saying, those are my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Eckoh

in reality the classes are close enough the best player will be the best DPS. They are all capable of being number 1 under the right conditions.

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You're wrong. (inb4 you talk about how you killed "garuta")

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

Quite frankly, this discussion is moot. Play your class well, and you can out damage 90% of the player base.

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Also wrong.

Seriously, did you guys like not read anything in this thread or something?

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

I can already pull aggro from tanks whenever I want... why do I want more damage?

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Bad tank is bad then if you can pull off of them whenever you want. Or you're lying. Maybe both. You should always want more dps though, provided you can safely do so.

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Originally Posted by Rosencranz

I actually find myself a little bit "out of mentality" here.

Strangely enough, in most endgame run - wanderer palace, tonby bossy - doing the right amount of damage, is the thing that determine a good dps job.

I can easily put a mob on full red all the time, but i prefer to focus having it on yellow. I'll do less damage? Yes, of course.

But being the "best" dps means - for me, imho - being able to maximize damages with hate-control, make easier the life of the healer and the tank, ending a fight quick, but not in a messy rushed way.

Being the best isn't a matter of "how much damage i can unleash", but "how much damage I NEED to unleash". It's childish being a show-off, and sadly mostly dps ARE show-offs.

We are that strange thing that can make fights easier, or a total mess. Best DPS achieve the first. Braggy DPS the second.

as i was saying, those are my 2 cents.

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makes perfect since

but i disagree with the basis in general. so you think its better to lower to dps to make it easier on the tank, and thats good and well, no reason to stroke your epeen there, but what does that matter then? Everyone can lower their dps to stay under the hate cap as long as its more than auto attacking, but you strive to do more than just the minimum right? What happens when you group with an amazing tank with tons of threat to spare. you can do as much as you want, i can do as much as i want, he can do as much as he wants and so on? thats what we are referring to here.

yes most of the time you cant go all out, thats true, but why base everything around worse case senarios? I'd rather get a dungeon done in 15 minutes rather than 2 hours, although both people got the boss done. If i have a good tank and i go all out as does the other dps and the healer and everyone playing their best what does that have to do with showing off?

Im all for "doing my best" in anything that i care about. When i played soccer for the Y as a kid i didnt just play around, i played to win (obviously following the rules). it was more fun to me that way, but that was back when only one team got a trophy. I dont consider this to be any different, "playing your best" would mean not pulling agro, yes, but it doesnt mean you should never care about how effective youre actually being. If you feel that your top damage doesnt matter, thats great, you pay your monthly fee, you can play how you want, but i dont think that is the general idea of this thread.

Generic DPS thread. Please stop jumping in with non-answers and just let people answer the question. "which dps class is the best?" not "which dps class can control their threat?" or "which dps class can be played the best?"

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

You're wrong. (inb4 you talk about how you killed "garuta")
Also wrong.

Seriously, did you guys like not read anything in this thread or something?

Bad tank is bad then if you can pull off of them whenever you want. Or you're lying. Maybe both. You should always want more dps though, provided you can safely do so.

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Sounds like you're trying to pick a fight friend. Instead of insults, can/may you please explain how making everyone think that you need to be 1 class = to do UBER 1337 OMG DAMAGE!!!L! Or else lolz soz uselessorz is a good thing, Mr. MasterRace?

I don't mind DPS conversations, but as a tool - not as a device to segregate. Do you honestly think that the classes are imbalanced enough that unless you pick a certain class, you cannot out-damage your peers?

I would rather not see 1000000 bards. And then 100000000 Lalafell plainsfolk because they have the most dex and are smallest (BECAUSE PVP)!

I honestly do not want tanks and healers to build on what they already stereotype us with. I.E. DPS are all hyperactive, rude, tunnel-visioned jerks.

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Originally Posted by Shunye

Generic DPS thread. Please stop jumping in with non-answers and just let people answer the question. "which dps class is the best?" not "which dps class can control their threat?" or "which dps class can be played the best?"

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Shunye - answer me this question. If you go into engineering, which engineer is the best engineer?

I always disagree with "youre wrong" then not really saying anything to back it up. but in general there often is a best, sometimes the best can be substantially above the worst. atm i dont see conditions to where bard isnt top dps (as they arent hurt by movement or range or switching targets or really anything as bad as others, all the while being supposedly top dps).

to the engineer, there is something my friends and i have dubbed "ep value". if a class does 90% the damage of the highest dps, but also does 50% the healing of the best healer, and the top dps is just providing dps, the 90/50 guy has more ep value. he is a bigger asset to the team on an overall point. technically he would be your best engineer. however OP asked who the top dps class was in the first post, so its who provides the highest numbers at this very specific job, the engineer thing is kinda irreverent then

The healing is a moot point because anytime you're not DPSing you are massively cutting your total output and prolonging the fight for your group, and the stress caused on your healers is far greater than any pitiful heal you can provide.

If everybody is doing their specified job well, being a hybrid is all drawback and no benefit.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

The healing is a moot point because anytime you're not DPSing you are massively cutting your total output and prolonging the fight for your group, and the stress caused on your healers is far greater than any pitiful heal you can provide.

If everybody is doing their specified job well, being a hybrid is all drawback and no benefit.

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with the whole "EP value" thing, this would not always be the case. a situation where a 90% dps 50% healer was able to take the place of a 100% healer, the raid would be gaining substantial dps.

but i think this thread is literally just "who can pump out the most deeps".

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Originally Posted by Hoffburger

http://www.twitch.tv/elvinemod/c/2841277 - Crazy Black Mage damage on Ifrit Hard Mode

vs.

http://www.twitch.tv/vanguardstv/c/2838401 - Not even close Dragoon damage on Ifrit Hard Mode


I dunno if it is a gear disparity, but it doesn't seem even remotely close. I'm deciding between Dragoon and Black Mage right now and after watching that, it's hard for me to justify playing Dragoon, regardless of how cool they look.

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Sad thing is that BLM didn't do a proper rotation. I would have done better lol. I need to make my video now that we can post them.

Of course I have no numbers to back it up with, but by observing relative enmity generation on boss fights I've found that Archers/Bards start out extremely strong early in the fight, with Monks slowly but steadily catching up, and if nothing interferes with melee uptime they will eventually surpass BLMs and BRDs by a fair margin (there is 3 dots and 2 self-buffs that monks need to apply before their damage takes off).

This is under ideal stand-still-and-nuke circumstances of course, with easy access to Flank and Back of the enemy. The reality however is that pretty much every boss past Primal Number 2 forces Monks away from melee often enough to make loosing Greased Lightning stacks inevitable, at which point Monk damage takes a kick in the nuts.

On add heavy fights I doubt there is anyone who can keep up with BLMs.

Have not grouped with enough Lancers/Dragoons to have a rational assessment on their damage, and Arcanists and Summoners having pets makes it hard to make estimates on their damage output based on enmity generation alone.

Well, if we intend "who can unleash most damage in shorter amount of time" - also called Burst/Nova/Spike damage - BLM seems to be the best. But it's because you see the big number showing every 2 sec of casting, or such. As a BRD, with a nice crit progression, an optimal use of barrage - everybody hate that skill, but is useful for burst damage - and the right setup, i've hit a media of 360ish + 3x180ish + 160ish + 3x180ish + 150ish = 1.7k damage in about 5-6 second, between the critical autoattack x3 and straight shot / venomous bite / windbite progression. After that, every hit was on the 200 / 500 damages, between critical or not. So i can assume we are a nice DPS class. Dunno if the best, but i can say we are able to burst too, even if in a particular way.

I'm just saying that it's moot to think of DPS as a binary issue. It's more of a philosophical question.

You can say - Bard does the most DPS. But it has no meaning. It's like saying the sky is blue (is it really?).

Under what what conditions? At what dungeon? With what party makeup? At what time during the fight? Over what period of time? AOE or single target? Do I have to move or can I stay in one place? What buffs do I have to work with? What gear do I have? What defenses does the enemy have?

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

I'm just saying that it's moot to think of DPS as a binary issue. It's more of a philosophical question.

You can say - Bard does the most DPS. But it has no meaning. It's like saying the sky is blue (is it really?).

Under what what conditions? At what dungeon? With what party makeup? At what time during the fight? Over what period of time? AOE or single target? Do I have to move or can I stay in one place? What buffs do I have to work with? What gear do I have? What defenses does the enemy have?

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Are you serious right now? The question is ALWAYS under optimal conditions, such as Patchwerk or a Target Dummy. I didn't think this was that hard to understand, considering it has been said MULTIPLE TIMES.

you can level other jobs

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

I'm just saying that it's moot to think of DPS as a binary issue. It's more of a philosophical question.

You can say - Bard does the most DPS. But it has no meaning. It's like saying the sky is blue (is it really?).

Under what what conditions? At what dungeon? With what party makeup? At what time during the fight? Over what period of time? AOE or single target? Do I have to move or can I stay in one place? What buffs do I have to work with? What gear do I have? What defenses does the enemy have?

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What you fail to understand is that Bard do not care about condition to top DPS. No matter the encounter, bard can always DPS since every action are instant and ranged.

Any DPS class can be the best DPS class when properly used by a skilled player. My own preference is Arcanist/Summoner. They can do continuos damage over-time, a lot of the other classes have burst attacks while Arcanist can continuously do damage over time. With proper DoT management and rotation order you can even out dps Black Mages and Bards.