[dev1008] About Jumping

These jumping and climbing threads seem to have affected me... I had a dreaming that I was doing Parkour in XIV last night o_o

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Originally Posted by Eclipse

Lots of reading to do here but I have to say, now that Lalafells are the smallest thing in the game they should be able to jump. We need to keep them from having a complex.

But in all seriousness. If we are going to get jump, then how about swimming. Wading in water at least? But I digress...

I think jump would be fun, we don't NEED it no, it has no use but to entertain unless we get a feature that will let us jump over 3 inch ledges. I don't even know if jumping would allow us to do it. There would have to be a lot of physics to take into consideration to do it correctly.

1. Okay lets say they add jump, do you think it is possible for SE to add a way to be able to turn off the visual action of it if you didn't want to see it happening?

2. If the majority of the community is more conservative when it comes to jumping do you really think that it will be used to the point of abuse?

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3. I like the stamina idea, but then would that put you in active mode and then you would have to get in and out of active mode? Meh... maybe allow it to be in passive mode with stamina?

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Looking for feedback.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

You're exaggerating. The issue people are having isn't jumping in sports, it's jumping for no reason in everyday situations. People simply don't jump around while shopping for groceries, or talking to their peers. Emotional distress is a stretch, but it'd sure feel awkward.

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Try telling my kid that.

There are ways to add jump to a game even manual jump but also restrict the retarded bunny hoping. Why not focus on giving everyone what they want instead of arguing over easily deterred scenarios?

I could live with a jump ablility (never though I'd say that lol) BUT only with a cooldown. The lengh is debatable. 15 to 20 secs would be good, though.

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Originally Posted by Eclipse

Lots of reading to do here but I have to say, now that Lalafells are the smallest thing in the game they should be able to jump. We need to keep them from having a complex.

But in all seriousness. If we are going to get jump, then how about swimming. Wading in water at least? But I digress...

I think jump would be fun, we don't NEED it no, it has no use but to entertain unless we get a feature that will let us jump over 3 inch ledges. I don't even know if jumping would allow us to do it. There would have to be a lot of physics to take into consideration to do it correctly.

1. Okay lets say they add jump, do you think it is possible for SE to add a way to be able to turn off the visual action of it if you didn't want to see it happening?

2. If the majority of the community is more conservative when it comes to jumping do you really think that it will be used to the point of abuse?

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3. I like the stamina idea, but then would that put you in active mode and then you would have to get in and out of active mode? Meh... maybe allow it to be in passive mode with stamina?

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Want feedback? Okay...

1. Assuming jumping was used properly (to move from a lower-to-higher location, or over an obstacle) turning off the animations for this would look silly.

2. You could add in-game mechanics to avoid "jump spam," particularly if you limit the rate at which you can jump and if you make walking much faster than jumping.

3. Stamina exists even in passive mode even though you can't see the bar. I don't think that's the best idea all the same.

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Originally Posted by Ablongman

Jumping (in some form) is standard in most 3D games these days. That there is such resistance to the idea out of nothing else other than tradition and a desire to limit what others can do shows what's holding this game back.

If the concern is realism, just have jumping consume Stamina, or maybe give a 30-second "Winded" debuff that disables jumping after using it more than a few times in a row without a few seconds of rest. There are sensible solutions that don't involve sounding like you're old hat.

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^ This. Please stop keeping Final Fantasy in the dark ages! Give us a jump feature. It can be done in a tasteful way.

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Originally Posted by Ablongman

Jumping (in some form) is standard in most 3D games these days. That there is such resistance to the idea out of nothing else other than tradition and a desire to limit what others can do shows what's holding this game back.

If the concern is realism, just have jumping consume Stamina, or maybe give a 30-second "Winded" debuff that disables jumping after using it more than a few times in a row without a few seconds of rest. There are sensible solutions that don't involve sounding like you're old hat.

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QFT! Please add jump :3

I agree with the fact that jumping should be needed in certain places to make it worth using. But still i dont share the big concerns about the feature? I dont mind anyone jumping (as some ppl stated, can be limited with stamina or CD). Why have a seemless world with so many limiations invisible walls... being able to swim, jump into water, climp out of the water... what is so bad about? Im also very used to not being able to do it after so many years of ffxi but it freshes things up imho.

Jumping wont make the world any better so i hope its not highest priority. But if it is implemented, the world better be worth exploring also via the jump feature.... since for now i think that, considering how boring the environment design acutally is..., many ppl wont use it often anyways.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

^ This. Please stop keeping Final Fantasy in the dark ages! Give us a jump feature. It can be done in a tasteful way.

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It can never be done in a tasteful way, people always make something sweet, bitter.

I am in favor of a Final Fantasy XIII esque jumping system.

Spending all of 20 minutes in La Noscea will prove why free jumping is a bad idea the way the game is currently designed. To add free jumping, they would also have to take down the invisible walls scattered throughout the world, add in interactions with water, and modify existing or add new geography to the original areas... all for the sake of being able to jump freely. Many areas were purposefully designed for the exclusion of jumping. There are a few small ledges I can think of off the top of my head that lead to no where. In fact, I dare say those large trackless expanses in the space between maps aren't fully modeled and would just lead to a buggy experience. That, or jumping up against the various invisible walls, and inability to jump off of cliffs to our character's ultimate demise will ruin immersion.

Adding in the Final Fantasy XIII jump feature, or something similar will fix the main complaint people have for the inclusion of a jump feature: The ability to navigate unnecessarily difficult terrain. All while keeping the reason people don't want a jump feature (Character immersion, lack of 'silliness?'). At the end of the day, this isn't a very important aspect of the game and devoting large swaths of time on this feature will ultimately hurt the game. The development team needs to find a simple answer for making our time in Eorzea more pleasant while allowing time for more pressing issues.

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Originally Posted by Gath

It can never be done in a tasteful way, people always make something sweet, bitter.

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People will always find a way to "abuse" something while bored.

I've never seen anyone complain about spam casting BRD spells, or blaze spikes, or emotes, or running in circles, or like a million other "annoying" things people did while bored in FFXI. And yes, these things did happen while waiting for your dynamis group/besieged time/whatever.

Hating on jump because it's another thing people do while bored, and then turning a blind eye to the other things, is BS.

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Originally Posted by Zane

I am in favor of a Final Fantasy XIII esque jumping system.

Spending all of 20 minutes in La Noscea will prove why free jumping is a bad idea the way the game is currently designed. To add free jumping, they would also have to take down the invisible walls scattered throughout the world, add in interactions with water, and modify existing or add new geography to the original areas... all for the sake of being able to jump freely. Many areas were purposefully designed for the exclusion of jumping. There are a few small ledges I can think of off the top of my head that lead to no where. In fact, I dare say those large trackless expanses in the space between maps aren't fully modeled and would just lead to a buggy experience. That, or jumping up against the various invisible walls, and inability to jump off of cliffs to our character's ultimate demise will ruin immersion.

Adding in the Final Fantasy XIII jump feature, or something similar will fix the main complaint people have for the inclusion of a jump feature: The ability to navigate unnecessarily difficult terrain. All while keeping the reason people don't want a jump feature (Character immersion, lack of 'silliness?'). At the end of the day, this isn't a very important aspect of the game and devoting large swaths of time on this feature will ultimately hurt the game. The development team needs to find a simple answer for making our time in Eorzea more pleasant while allowing time for more pressing issues.

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agreed*

The way that the zones are designed are a prime reason 'jumping' isn't there. Yes, navigating around terrain can be tedious sometimes, but there is much more pressing content I'd like attended to first.

The only way I see them adding jump is if Yoshi-P wants to give us some platforming puzzle solving content ala Vagrant Story.

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Originally Posted by Zane

I am in favor of a Final Fantasy XIII esque jumping system.

Spending all of 20 minutes in La Noscea will prove why free jumping is a bad idea the way the game is currently designed. To add free jumping, they would also have to take down the invisible walls scattered throughout the world, add in interactions with water, and modify existing or add new geography to the original areas... all for the sake of being able to jump freely. Many areas were purposefully designed for the exclusion of jumping. There are a few small ledges I can think of off the top of my head that lead to no where. In fact, I dare say those large trackless expanses in the space between maps aren't fully modeled and would just lead to a buggy experience. That, or jumping up against the various invisible walls, and inability to jump off of cliffs to our character's ultimate demise will ruin immersion.

Adding in the Final Fantasy XIII jump feature, or something similar will fix the main complaint people have for the inclusion of a jump feature: The ability to navigate unnecessarily difficult terrain. All while keeping the reason people don't want a jump feature (Character immersion, lack of 'silliness?'). At the end of the day, this isn't a very important aspect of the game and devoting large swaths of time on this feature will ultimately hurt the game. The development team needs to find a simple answer for making our time in Eorzea more pleasant while allowing time for more pressing issues.

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What? - and running/walking up against invisble walls is any less immersive? It's funny you talk about breaking immersion by adding a free-jump feature when it would only add to the immersion in most cases. At least free jumping would allow you to jump EVERY WHERE ELSE apart from those few areas where walls would be needed.

i kinda like the idea of a zelda style jump, where when you hit an elevated ledge, you jump off of the edge. They could add health damage for making steep jumps, or even a broken bone debuff that would slow your stamina regeneration.

come on people, jumping is not immersion breaking. Leaping 30 feet up A la WoW is immersion breaking.

My opinion on jumping is it should be in the game and we should be free to jump when we please. When you log into any mmo you want to feel immersed into a world. SE is aware that FFXIV is not as 'alive' as they hoped for and is working to fix this. How does this relate to jumping? Cliff edges and many other vertical barriers feel restricted. Yes it is not desired by anyone to jump over a stair rail or cliff and fall 50 feet to die, but I want the option. I also want the option to jump over a short obstacle that is in my path.

I know this has been touched on...a lot...It is not make or break in the feeling of being apart of a world but its one small thing that would help in the immersion aspect for me.

Another aspect of jumping that has been lightly touched on in this forum is the combat aspect. Jumping adds another tool to combat and the more options SE has the more diverse fights can become. I will also add in here that I personally have used jump many times to indicate to party members my location...anyone been trying to trade with someone in a crowded location...

I think the biggest concern about a 'jump as you please' option is the rabbit jumpers. I agree that it is annoying but so are people that spam chat, dance randomly on the street, or run around with no clothes on. These are all apart of the mmo culture and, in general, all of these player populations are low.

I never played FFXI but from what I gather from previous post; you are prompted to jump, you click 'ok' and your toon jumps the object. This solution would solve the bunny jumpers but it is not a fluid option. This game currently suffers a lot from a 'stop-choose option-go' rhythem. Casting spells, passive-active mode switching, starting a levequest, to name a few. are all ridged. And if jumping is introduced I would want it to be fluid.

I will close with this. Jumping is not a priority right now. Yes I would like to see jumping included but not till many of the other issues are addressed.

SOLUTION

Make it like the 3D Zelda games.
- You jump on a ledge when you run at it at full speed.
- You jump at a high wall when the action button indicates you can jump and hold on to it (same for vines/ladders).
- in other words - functional jump.

If it were possible, I would love a system like The Legend of Zelda. Not just for jumping, but for climbing as well. Incorporating a system like this depends on how polymorphic the game's code is, so I don't think it's going to happen.

Now here's the thing, I hate it when people randomly jump for no reason. It is immersion breaking. HOWEVER, if jumping were to be added to the game it should NOT be limited by a cooldown of sorts. If there's one thing I hate more than people jumping for no reason, it's a stupid limitation put into place because of a stupid personal preference. Yes, I am calling my hatred for people jumping for no reason stupid. Plus, a cooldown won't fix it. Some of you don't realize it, but it's not the bunny hopping you hate. It's the fact that people will jump for no reason. So even if people could jump once every 5 minutes, seeing different people pop up amongst the crowd in the adventurer's guild is still going to annoy you.

Lancer/Dragoon should have Jump as an offensive ability...but don't dare to let everyone jump all over eorzea!

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Originally Posted by Zane

I am in favor of a Final Fantasy XIII esque jumping system.

Spending all of 20 minutes in La Noscea will prove why free jumping is a bad idea the way the game is currently designed. To add free jumping, they would also have to take down the invisible walls scattered throughout the world, add in interactions with water, and modify existing or add new geography to the original areas... all for the sake of being able to jump freely. Many areas were purposefully designed for the exclusion of jumping. There are a few small ledges I can think of off the top of my head that lead to no where. In fact, I dare say those large trackless expanses in the space between maps aren't fully modeled and would just lead to a buggy experience. That, or jumping up against the various invisible walls, and inability to jump off of cliffs to our character's ultimate demise will ruin immersion.

Adding in the Final Fantasy XIII jump feature, or something similar will fix the main complaint people have for the inclusion of a jump feature: The ability to navigate unnecessarily difficult terrain. All while keeping the reason people don't want a jump feature (Character immersion, lack of 'silliness?'). At the end of the day, this isn't a very important aspect of the game and devoting large swaths of time on this feature will ultimately hurt the game. The development team needs to find a simple answer for making our time in Eorzea more pleasant while allowing time for more pressing issues.

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Ultimately, I agree. I find the XIII/X-2 jump system to be most appropriate. Jumping around freely is a little silly, and fantasy aspect aside, when people can jump, they jump everywhere just because in their head whether or not it is true, it just seems like it moves you a tiny bit faster. And it just gets annoying seeing people bounce everywhere.

All we are really looking for at the end of the day when it comes to jumping is just a way to get passed all the accursed invisible walls and insurmountable ankle high ledges. Though many a mouse and Malboro may my mighty axe slay, the one foe I cannot vanquish is a a ledge no higher than my shin. Apparently a mouse bit it and it hurts just a tad to much to lift my leg up the tiny amount higher... Oh woe is my mighty Roegadyn shin... Alas, were I able to hop up the ledge, I might reach where I'm headed without a 15 minute detour. Which is all we really want. Cause running up on a ledge I know I could easily jump down in the real world, and it being an impassible barrier for my character can be frustrating. I'd much rather have the auto-jump to take care of it than anything. It just seems like the best and natural solution without getting over zealous with it.

yeah I'm for an auto jump feature from XIII or Zelda. that really makes alot of sense and would open up the world.

I am noticing a lot of people want jumping similar to FFXIII's if it were to be implemented, but I am thinking of it in terms to the gathering animations. People actually might get annoyed when they run to a certain spot that designates automatic jumping to get across that suddenly forces them to stop abruptly, but also might soon get annoyed when they say the animation process is too slow. And to top that off, might complain again if the animation were to be sped up, with people staking calls at it being too fast looking and unrealistic.


As for myself? Would I like a jump feature in this game?
Certainly.

Then, what about a jump feature never being implemented at all despite the talks?
I wouldn't mind. I can live without it; I have been for the past 6 months or so and am just fine.

Then...if it were to be added and then removed due to complications, player's raging, and whatnot?
That...well, it will depend on how it all pans out, I suppose.

I highly doubt the process would be to slow. That's assuming it's not instant, where they automatically walk to a predetermined spot, then get ready, squat, do a test jump, squat again, and go for real. I figure it'd really be an instantaneous transition exactly as it was in XIII. No selecting off the menu. It just happens as a normal part of the walking animation.

+1 for functional, realistic, motion-captured jump feature.

Jumping is no good.

It would be unrealistic/unfair.

Lalafell will be jumping 2-3x their own height if the jumping is to be fairly scaled so everyone has the same jumping abilities.

So, a "little" hill to a Roe, is like an impassable wall to a Lalafell...

No jump.

FF11 didn't need it, and Neither does FF14

XI also didn't have the invisible walls issue that XIV has though. Look, Lalafel are described as having strong legs, just like Tarutaru. Despite their size, they can run as fast as everyone else. I think it's ok if they jump as high too.

a grasshopper jumps much farther than i do

Why do you all assume that just because people looked like idiots in wow that it will be bad?
Nobody complains about jumping in EQ2 or EQ1 or LOTRO or DDO because they don't make it "cool" to jump.

In WoW everyone jumps and dances everywhere because they stylized it. Nobody spammed it in EQ2 because the animations looked stupid, but it was still very useful, Especially in boss encounters where they had floating platforms and random teleports.

Think about the potential jump could have in bad-assery.
Earth-based mob uses Quake, players Jump.
Deadly encounter with a 2-inch hill that makes you run around halfway around the map, players jump.

Adding a system for jumping could add them to allow a lot more features in the future, such as swimming. This is an MMO, a beautiful MMO with lots of room for social interactions and roleplaying and just chilling out. It's a video game.... and maybe you just want to jump in the lake with your friends who don't live in the same city as you and just BS with each other.

Jumping isn't evil, WoW making it cooler to jump around town than actually play the game is.

First, being able to avoid earth based attacks by way of jumps would be broken. Especially since you get the warning, it wouldn't be hard to time, which stops anyone from ever going an earth route, especially in PvP, but also, the earth attacks rise a bit from the ground, so even then, I doubt jumping is gonna stop them unless you're using a Dragoon Jump.

Also, you could still do stuff like the floating platforms, even in an automatic setting. The problem is though, to avoid terrain abuse, the ability to target to many levels above or below you is off, and even if you do, monsters can move up most any terrain. Same deal with swimming. There's gonna be a lot involved with going in the water. Now, I think an underwater temple is cool as hell, and I'm just as for it as the next person, but I just do not wanna deal with under water fighting. Of course, then again, I think they have something planned with airship battles, so trying to rule out to much is silly too, but if that stuff is gonna show up, it's better off in the form of some addition to the regular movement mechanic. In other words, no up and down movements. Set paths, even under water. What's more, a lot of the water in the game isn't even set for something like swimming. The Ocean in Limsa is a solid object. It's basically a specially textured ground. Since they're not about to change any of the current maps as is, I doubt they're gonna over haul the water of La Noscea any time soon. More importantly, there's a LOT of other stuff I'd rather see changed and overhauled than trying to do swimming. Swimming alone would take probably 3-4 months just to develop, and another 2 to implement and get actually working. That's 6 months I'd rather see spent on more meaningful things.

The best way to handle jumping is just a smooth add-on to the basic movement mechanic. As far as I see anyway. Its a quick trip to the MoCap studio, about a week to get it all mapped, and bam. You're gold.

I would like jump.

Hey, you guys know what is great? Eorzea is a HUGE and expansive world to explore. Isn't that awesome? You know what's even better? I cant jump so instead of wondering whats over that hill or whats under this ledge I have to just walk on some path and never leave the ground. Isn't that just the best?

Yeah, I hope we never get jump. I don't to want to be immersed in a large open world. Let me walk in a tunnel for my playing career.

I can't believe anyone even thought to create a thread asking about jump. Obviously it would serve no purpose in exploring. And who cares if I can't get over shin-high bumps in the ground. I should have never left the path in the first place! What was I thinking, going ahead and exploring. Im so foolish sometimes.

Jeez guys, this thread should be closed. Its a no-brainer.

How is jumping unrealistic? Lalafell runs just as fast as others to me thats unrrealistic, and others say they should fix the areas so pople wont have to jump and i think that would take more time to fix then to add a jump, make jump a context... no thanks, put it in as an autojump no thanks, how long do you think it would take them to put autojumps in? what happens when you come across a spot and theres no autojump there then you have to look for one? when its just better to be able to jump at will?

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Originally Posted by Becken

How is jumping unrealistic? Lalafell runs just as fast as others to me thats unrrealistic, and others say they should fix the areas so pople wont have to jump and i think that would take more time to fix then to add a jump, make jump a context... no thanks, put it in as an autojump no thanks, how long do you think it would take them to put autojumps in? what happens when you come across a spot and theres no autojump there then you have to look for one? when its just better to be able to jump at will?

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Lalafells also move their feet 5 times faster than the others, jumping may be realistic, but the people who bunny hop constantly (Which is a good chunk of the player base) is not realistic at all.

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Originally Posted by Becken

How is jumping unrealistic? Lalafell runs just as fast as others to me thats unrrealistic

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Probably because even though tarus were short and overweight they had the most AGI.

What game might that be that people bunny hop constantly? WoW? nope i still play it and havnt seen that many jump that much(seen more people spam AoEs spells more then any thing), Aion has jump and again i havnt seen that many people jump in that ether.

Not sure where your stand is on this Yoshi-P but, if having jump in this game can save us the trouble of having to hop 3 zones just to get up a hill(ex: Lumberjack / Roc) then I'm all for it. Majority of the population that stayed, judging by your poll results are ex-XI players so if they could play 7yrs without jump I doubt they would be the first ones to say they 'need' it. But I'm sure deep down maybe going to an NM or accidentally falling off merit camp, people thought damn I wish I could just jump back up.

Also, doubt you want this brought up but this fact probably played a part in the oh so infamous POS(3rd party prog) that a large community of XI players used/were banned for.

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Originally Posted by Becken

What game might that be that people bunny hop constantly? WoW? nope i still play it and havnt seen that many jump that much(seen more people spam AoEs spells more then any thing), Aion has jump and again i havnt seen that many people jump in that ether.

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I agree. And at the same time I have never heard of anyone quitting because people can jump.

A jump feature would be great... TO all those who think not, I don't understand. Aion, and WoW both have it. There's not a ton of people jumping around, it will make a better gaming experience.

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Originally Posted by wind

Majority of the population that stayed, judging by your poll results are ex-XI players so if they could play 7yrs without jump I doubt they would be the first ones to say they 'need' it. But I'm sure deep down maybe going to an NM or accidentally falling off merit camp, people thought damn I wish I could just jump back up.

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Well said, Wind. Well said.

I know one place in 11 i wished i could jump down and explor, that would be the ruin city in blueblade fell(the one from the opening of the game), ether way if they add or dont add jump to 14 ill still explor it, who knows there could be some areas that youll never know thats there if you cant jump up that little hill.
and i have played FFVI since 2004