ARR Gil Cap Reduction

Rein did it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post831427

edit: I was too late. NoctisUmbra was faster

No more arrows for Archers? What?! lol

Making new thread so this ne isn't derailed.

If you seriously have that much gil you have much bigger underlying problems then losing a piece of it.

Mo' money mo' problems!

Well, I can see everyone getting reduced to 10% of their wealth to not go over well, but with recent developments with dawn drops and all, it really has to be done. This is going to screw people that legitimately made their money more than anyone. On the plus side, almost all of the gil the supposed RMTs farming Cedarwood are accumulating will be gone. This is the best thing SE can do since they can't outright ban them.

I'm sitting on about 10mil right now. Going down to 1mil seems like a huge kick in the nads, but if everything drops in price accordingly it should be ok.

I think the biggest oversight for this though is the fact prices are determined by player economy. Can we honestly say that in the futurue people will be selling felt bracers for 3500 just because its 1/10 of the price? I honestly don't see that happening. They will probably shoot up to 7-8k if not more even with this gil reduction. Other items will more than likely follow suit so this is an absolutely ridiculous solution to the fact we have too much gil and gear. Better stock up on that relic materia now.

Req:

Things are overpriced now. But they're at the bottom of the list and no one buys them.

People may attempt at first to try to keep prices as high as they are now, but undercutters will chip away at those prices.

Also, about relic: It is unlikely that the double meld requirement will make it into ARR since it happens after the quest is accepted. Double meld class specific weapons will crash. If you have one, get rid of it. Either with the quest or selling it. It's worthless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Req:

Things are overpriced now. But they're at the bottom of the list and no one buys them.

People may attempt at first to try to keep prices as high as they are now, but undercutters will chip away at those prices.

Also, about relic: It is unlikely that the double meld requirement will make it into ARR since it happens after the quest is accepted. Double meld class specific weapons will crash. If you have one, get rid of it. Either with the quest or selling it. It's worthless.

---

Did they not say that those who are on the relic quest will keep their progression? The only way for them to make it so we truly keep our progress is if they do not change the quest. I don't really see how they could change it and still say we have kept the same progress unless the new quest just takes the same number of steps to get to the end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Reducing needlessly inflated values. One benefit was already pointed out. People undercutting for 1 gil have no trouble doing so cuz 1 gil isn't worth crap.

Also, since yu're so keen on perception, they're making it so not nly each gil is worth something, but actually reaching a million means something.

Again, the PR reaction depends more on how they handle the transition rather than the transition itself.

---

But conversely, if the benefit is purely one of perception also, then there isn't much of a benefit is there? There's no "set" value on how much a unit of currency should be worth in an MMO. Inflation in an MMO has to be measured against itself, specifically the money faucets and sinks, and how they're affecting the long term trend on item values, not some arbitrary nominal value assigned to the currency.

And for those that honestly think this will do anything against undercutting, they're sadly mistaken. Raising the value of gil will only decrease the amount of gil being undercut each time, in this case from 1 gil to 10gil, and I doubt anyone is going to be deterred from undercutting because the minimum cost has been increased to a whopping 9 gil. Undercutting, as annoying as it may be, is nevertheless essential and inevitable in a competitive market, the correct way to go about it is to design a good market interface to lessen the annoyance factor.

My point remains, in this case SE is changing stuff for the sake of changing stuff without bringing any meaningful benefits.

More sensible and less inflated numbers make me happy.

Thank you SE for the redenomination. I am most pleased.

Wow ^^ It took me month to get up to my current 5 Million. Seems that I will only have 500k in 2.0...... Well.... could be worse... It could be raining......

Never had more than 500k in FFXI..... will feel like taken back in time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Req

Did they not say that those who are on the relic quest will keep their progression? The only way for them to make it so we truly keep our progress is if they do not change the quest. I don't really see how they could change it and still say we have kept the same progress unless the new quest just takes the same number of steps to get to the end.

---

Ah... the double meld is step 1, when you accept the quest... there is no progress. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orophin

On the plus side, almost all of the gil the supposed RMTs farming Cedarwood are accumulating will be gone. This is the best thing SE can do since they can't outright ban them.

---

Not really..

If RMT are selling 10 mil for 10 bucks (random example) they will just start selling 1 mil for 10 bucks. They don't really lose anything...

There are still people who don't understand that nobody loses anything?

There's nothing to even discuss on this topic anymore except perhaps the emotional aspect.

I expect that for psychological reasons this is going to loosen up a lot of money that's been hoarded so far. It's hard to swallow 30mil for an M2 (sticker shock), but 3mil sounds a lot more reasonable even if you have 10 times less gil and make gil 10 times slower.

How are we not losing anything exactly? Just because the game is lowering prices does not mean players are forced to as well. This is just a nice way of saying we are deleting billions of gil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I'm currently in Turkey visiting family as I so often do. Turkey had a major redenomination take place less than a decade ago. I lived through it. Experienced it as our basic equivalent of a dollar went from being 1 million Turkish Liras to 1 Turkish Lira. They dropped 6 digits.

---

If you only go there to visit, redenomination in turkey didn't have much impact on you. Ask your family how they feel about the redenomination in turkey.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Don't flatter yourself.

[...]

I can't help that it was confirmed right after I said that lol.

---

I wasn't flattering myself, just pointing your oddities. Yes, I called your behavior troll-esque. If you can't accept that contradicting yourself every 2 posts makes it look like you're trolling, I'm sorry for you.

let's get back on topic.

Raagnar,

Let's say you had 7 mil and need some smoked Raptor. Currently smoked Raptor is around 100-120k a stack. No biggie for a millionaire.

Cut to ARR... you have 700k... someone is selling smoked Raptor for the same price... are you going to buy it? Or are you going to make your own?

As the item stays on the market without selling... more and more people will come along as start undercutting. The price will fall until people start buying again.

10k-12k a stack.

There has been an economic problem since game launch at Atomos is only making it worse. I'm not sure this change will be enough to really fix the economy. So much of the economic problem in this game remains hidden because of incredibly low item demand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Raagnar,

Let's say you had 7 mil and need some smoked Raptor. Currently smoked Raptor is around 100-120k a stack. No biggie for a millionaire.

Cut to ARR... you have 700k... someone is selling smoked Raptor for the same price... are you going to buy it? Or are you going to make your own?

As the item stays on the market without selling... more and more people will come along as start undercutting. The price will fall until people start buying again.

---

smoked raptor sells for 1k each on my server. after the gil decrease on everyone it may drop to selling for 500 gil each, but things like that i don't see going lower. sure the price cut in half, but the profit margin increases by 500%. you will technically be spending a higher percentage of your gil buying items like that one you mentioned later on

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Raagnar,

Let's say you had 7 mil and need some smoked Raptor. Currently smoked Raptor is around 100-120k a stack. No biggie for a millionaire.

Cut to ARR... you have 700k... someone is selling smoked Raptor for the same price... are you going to buy it? Or are you going to make your own?

As the item stays on the market without selling... more and more people will come along as start undercutting. The price will fall until people start buying again.

10k-12k a stack.

---

That is in the ideal world. I just have a bad feeling the prices are probably going to actually have shot up by about 30-50% for many of the lower end items when all is said and done converting for the gil reduction. It won't surprise me if we see the smoked raptor you are talking about going for like 20k a stack instead of 12 which would be 200k now.

Yes, that could be true Darkstar... smoked Raptor probaby won't drop down 90% because gil will still be added to the system (how fast is the X factor!). But I think that's the whole point tho. Gil will be worth a whole lot more (gath joke) than it is now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raagnar

How are we not losing anything exactly? Just because the game is lowering prices does not mean players are forced to as well. This is just a nice way of saying we are deleting billions of gil.

---

Technically you're not forced to. Just good luck selling shit when so many other players do in fact lower prices. All it takes is a minority to understand how redenomination works to drop their prices. Ater that anyone who wants to sell shit will have to follow suit. Maybe not right away, but eventually all prices will balance around 1/10 what they used to be.. though honestly with so many other drastic changes coming who knows what anything will be worth in 2.0?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PandaTaru

If you only go there to visit, redenomination in turkey didn't have much impact on you. Ask your family how they feel about the redenomination in turkey.

---

I have. They're quite happy about not having to say million and billion when speaking of loose change. Not to mention it's a lot messier of a process in real life due to reprinting and exchanging of currency, whereas in game it's all done automatically. Nice and clean.

Quote:

---

I wasn't flattering myself, just pointing your oddities. Yes, I called your behavior troll-esque. If you can't accept that contradicting yourself every 2 posts makes it look like you're trolling, I'm sorry for you.

let's get back on topic.

---

I didn't contradict myself. I was accused of being insulting, trolling, and being condescending when I did none of those things. These accusations all conveniently came when people suddenly decided they couldn't further debate with me.

A number of posts later I saıd, now that the redenomination is confirmed, I'd go back and point out all the people who were so sure I was wrong... something I didn't end up doing anyway.

Honestly dude, I'm giving you much more attnetion than you need with this trivial argument of yours. You trollin me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Yes, that could be true Darkstar... smoked Raptor probaby won't drop down 90% because gil will still be added to the system (how fast is the X factor!). But I think that's the whole point tho. Gil will be worth a whole lot more (gath joke) than it is now.

---

This is where the smart\proactive will make a killing. Sell early, while prices are unstable =p

I'm hoarding mats even as I type. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

This is where the smart\proactive will make a killing. Sell early, while prices are unstable =p

---

yep. it only takes a few minutes to look for items just like this before each major change and make a killing after. this is also how alot of the super rich became that way.

No matter how you spin it the bottom line is the same, they are removing gil from the game. You can make peace with it by saying things will even out and I'll still have the same amount in value.. but this will shake things up because this is one thing he said he would not do. Even if you relabel it, its still gil being deleted. anyone remember the Simpsons? "temporary refund adjustment"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raagnar

No matter how you spin it the bottom line is the same, they are removing gil from the game. You can make peace with it by saying things will even out and I'll still have the same amount in value.. but this will shake things up because this is one thing he said he would not do. Even if you relabel it, its still gil being deleted. anyone remember the Simpsons? "temporary refund adjustment"

---

oh i agree with you that it is being removed. i was just pointing out 2 things.

1. it's the most fair way to remove gil. i still don't see how losing over 270 mil compared to someone else losing 1 mil is really fair.

2. the people that got rich got there by playing the market for profits. they will still continue to do that. the rich will not automatically become poor because of the change. they will still make 10x the profit of someone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Ah... the double meld is step 1, when you accept the quest... there is no progress. :(

---

actually that is your progress, you have to start the quest pick your weapon then go fight your NM and get your double meld.... thats how the quest begins... sure if you don't turn it in your not making any real progress but you flagged the quest already which means you'll still be on that phase come 2.0

and yoshi already said nothing is going to change for relic and that he finds that its too easy already cause more people have relics then they thought would atm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raagnar

No matter how you spin it the bottom line is the same, they are removing gil from the game. You can make peace with it by saying things will even out and I'll still have the same amount in value.. but this will shake things up because this is one thing he said he would not do. Even if you relabel it, its still gil being deleted. anyone remember the Simpsons? "temporary refund adjustment"

---

If you must insist, to avoid further wordplay I'll simplify.

Are they removing gil from the game? It can be interpreted as such, perhaps, since all values are decreasing and the currency name is the same.

Are they removing any wealth from the game? No. Nobody is losing wealth. Everyone is just as rich/poor as they were before.

If you still don't understand how that is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redenomination

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I have. They're quite happy about not having to say million and billion when speaking of loose change. Not to mention it's a lot messier of a process in real life due to reprinting and exchanging of currency, whereas in game it's all done automatically. Nice and clean.

---

...and about the most important part of a redenomination, the economic?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Honestly dude, I'm giving you much more attnetion than you need with this trivial argument of yours. You trollin me?

---

Guilty as charge. couldn't help it when I read your posts saying you were happy that you were right about the redenomination while some other people had a hard time believing SE would troll us with a redenomination.

let's get back on topic, it's more important than trolling around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PandaTaru

...and about the most important part of a redenomination, the economic?

---

You can look it up yourself. Turkey's actually been doing better and better since then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raagnar

No matter how you spin it the bottom line is the same, they are removing gil from the game. You can make peace with it by saying things will even out and I'll still have the same amount in value.. but this will shake things up because this is one thing he said he would not do.

---

Actually he said there won't be character wipes. He never said that there wouldn't be a readjustment of gil in circulation.

Quote:

---

actually that is your progress, you have to start the quest pick your weapon then go fight your NM and get your double meld.... thats how the quest begins...

---

No the quest begins before that. You flag the quest when you choose which weapon you want to get. Then the quest appears in your journal.

We don't know if that step will stay the same. I predict that it will not. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but considering that everything else in that quest will be disappeared, I don't see why this won't change as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

No the quest begins before that. You flag the quest when you choose which weapon you want to get. Then the quest appears in your journal.

We don't know if that step will stay the same. I predict that it will not. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but considering that everything else in that quest will be disappeared, I don't see why this won't change as well.

---

thats what i said..... you pick the weapon you want from the NPC and it starts... in then shows which NM and double meld you need

its not changing

Wealth is relative and different for each person so yes in a way they are removing wealth. And this isnt redenomination, there is no face value, there isnt different types of gil. 1 gil = 1 gil before and after 2.0 they are just removing it. You are just assuming ppl will follow suit and lower prices with you but as pointed out the rich will still be rich and dont care if you cant afford their asking price. And im not talking about stupid shit like raptor haunch. things worth while.. like melded gear, im still going to charge whats worth my time and not because they lowered gil costs from vendors.

And if its all the same and makes no difference then why so happy about it being done?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raagnar

Wealth is relative and different for each person so yes in a way they are removing wealth. And this isnt redenomination, there is no face value, there isnt different types of gil. 1 gil = 1 gil before and after 2.0 they are just removing it. You are just assuming ppl will follow suit and lower prices with you but as pointed out the rich will still be rich and dont care if you cant afford their asking price. And im not talking about stupid shit like raptor haunch. things worth while.. like melded gear, im still going to charge whats worth my time and not because they lowered gil costs from vendors.

And if its all the same and makes no difference then why so happy about it being done?

---

All npcs and quests have lowered rewards, your gil is worth a different value in 2.0. They have concentrated the power of the gil per unit of gil basically.

The prices may not jump down right away but it would be foolish to assume the same prices will maintain themselves (if there are no more gil making abuses of course..).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raagnar

Wealth is relative and different for each person so yes in a way they are removing wealth. And this isnt redenomination, there is no face value, there isnt different types of gil. 1 gil = 1 gil before and after 2.0 they are just removing it. You are just assuming ppl will follow suit and lower prices with you but as pointed out the rich will still be rich and dont care if you cant afford their asking price. And im not talking about stupid shit like raptor haunch. things worth while.. like melded gear, im still going to charge whats worth my time and not because they lowered gil costs from vendors.

And if its all the same and makes no difference then why so happy about it being done?

---

the only ones happy about it are the really poor people that spend everything they make as soon as they can. they look at someone with a few hundred million and think that it isn't fair because their 50 million doesn't compare to the 500 million someone else has.

they see 500,000,000 compared to their 50,000,000 and it looks bad, but 50,000,000 to their 5,000,000 seems like it's closer than what it really is.

the truth is if the prices don't drop to 10% of what it is now the rich will just continue to jump farther ahead because they are the ones selling the stuff already.

Don't assume I think they will stay exactly the same... what im trying to say is the player asking prices will not all be 1/10 and its foolish to think ppl will just automatically follow that rule of thumb. The rich will still get what they want for it and the lower ppl will still be complaining. This isnt changing anything but the total amount in circulation. Its pointless unless all they wanted was a lower number and to give ppl the feeling they are deleting their work.