So Yoshi-P just confirmed jobs won't get a big rework in 8.0.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

That's why I feel that "stuff staying the same" is related to the 2min meta, rather than details about job rotations. And on that matter, I think the only possible way for a job to grow with actual new things is if they focus on the 2min meta "downtime".

For example. Dancer is a job known to be extremely busy during the burst window, but boring outside of it... Imagine if Technical Finish would do something like 'unlock' a new Dance after the buff ends, or something that replaced your combos with something else for 30-60 seconds. It's a way to spice up the gameplay while not messing with the burst window setup.

That, on top of the promised job uniqueness brought back, which would be interesting to see how many, if any, reverting they'll do to achieve this. For example, Astrologian having their sects back, since the healer sub-division didn't really live up to what they intended.

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This really doesn't sound like something CBU3 would do. We're talking about the same studio that doesn't design a dungeon with anything other than 3 bosses and 6 mob packs. Their idea of "improved encounter design" was DDR on steroids with smaller hitboxes.

They release 2 DPS jobs and suddenly everything has to be balanced around them, as we saw with Light-Heavyweight, M6S and FRU, all of which had broken DPS checks. Now imagine reworking 20+ job rotations while introducing an entirely new system on top of them, and adding 2 more jobs on top of that. All of this while Yoshi-P hasn't explicitly said they plan to change the current level 100 rotations.

If Yoshi-P says that people who enjoy the current system will still enjoy 8.0, expecting multiple reworks is nothing but wishful thinking.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

This really doesn't sound like something CBU3 would do. We're talking about the same studio that doesn't design a dungeon with anything other than 3 bosses and 6 mob packs. Their idea of "improved encounter design" was DDR on steroids with smaller hitboxes.

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Not doing ex stuff. But the change to leveling was just speeding up the dodge.


To all the people who think this is an improvement. You are wrong. When markers show up and when attacks go off should be consistent through out the whole game. People shouldn't have to guess when the snapshot is. If you want to build encounters around visual ques and not markers. That is fine except SE doesn't. Not to mention the bosses and the camera angles on the encounters are not well thought out. Last boss in Meso has a text notification flash up on the screen. Because you can't actually see the bosses arms with the design and camera.


I blame deadly boss mod. And then devs not understanding what deadly boss mod was really.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

This really doesn't sound like something CBU3 would do. We're talking about the same studio that doesn't design a dungeon with anything other than 3 bosses and 6 mob packs. Their idea of "improved encounter design" was DDR on steroids with smaller hitboxes.

They release 2 DPS jobs and suddenly everything has to be balanced around them, as we saw with Light-Heavyweight, M6S and FRU, all of which had broken DPS checks. Now imagine reworking 20+ job rotations while introducing an entirely new system on top of them, and adding 2 more jobs on top of that. All of this while Yoshi-P hasn't explicitly said they plan to change the current level 100 rotations.

If Yoshi-P says that people who enjoy the current system will still enjoy 8.0, expecting multiple reworks is nothing but wishful thinking.

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Well, Yoshida didn't explicity say anything, really. All of his contradictory statements could lead to nowhere or a place even worse than where jobs currently are.

I do have a massive boulder of salt when speculating about the future. Although I have that understanding, I'm not exactly expecting anything.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Problem is any content that is lower then like 80 already feels really bad to play, who's having a good experience doing ARR content on a job with half the skills in the first place?

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The incredibly dumb thing is that this is a solved problem! Guild Wars 2 has had dynamic scaling throughout its entire world since launch all the way back in 2012. You keep all your unlocked skills when you get synced down to match your zone - the only thing adjusted by the sync is your stats, to keep the world relevant. If GW2 can do that for its entire damn Core Tyria, then FF14 can do that for FATEs and instanced content. Let players keep their full rotations and just drop the ilvl sync to compensate. Boom, done.

(Also the ilvl sync needs to be dropped in the CT raids anyway, because new players don't even know those fights have mechanics, with how fast everything gets melted.)

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Originally Posted by brinn12

This really doesn't sound like something CBU3 would do. We're talking about the same studio that doesn't design a dungeon with anything other than 3 bosses and 6 mob packs. Their idea of "improved encounter design" was DDR on steroids with smaller hitboxes.

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I think CBU3 still doesn't trust their own process. They made gaming history when they saved FF14 with ARR, and then they've just mindlessly copied that template over and over. It's exactly what you do when you succeed without knowing why, so you're afraid to change anything, in case you break whatever made you successful. Once something achieves even a small success, CBU3 etches it into stone and turns it into an immutable part of every expansion. Blood Gauge on HW DRK became "Job Gauges for everyone!" Eureka in SB became "Relics always locked behind shitty FATE grinds!" Hunts and treasure maps are exactly the same now as when they were first added over a decade ago.

And we all know, sight unseen, that 8.0 will launch with two new DPS jobs, six dungeons and three trials at x3, x9, and x0 levels, six zones, one new city and one new endgame hub, that 8.05, 8.2, and 8.4 will have four raids, that 8.1, 8.3, and 8.5 will each have a 24-man, that 8.25 will introduce a relic gated behind a shitty FATE grind...

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Originally Posted by Punslinger

The incredibly dumb thing is that this is a solved problem! Guild Wars 2 has had dynamic scaling throughout its entire world since launch all the way back in 2012. You keep all your unlocked skills when you get synced down to match your zone - the only thing adjusted by the sync is your stats, to keep the world relevant. If GW2 can do that for its entire damn Core Tyria, then FF14 can do that for FATEs and instanced content. Let players keep their full rotations and just drop the ilvl sync to compensate. Boom, done.

(Also the ilvl sync needs to be dropped in the CT raids anyway, because new players don't even know those fights have mechanics, with how fast everything gets melted.)



I think CBU3 still doesn't trust their own process. They made gaming history when they saved FF14 with ARR, and then they've just mindlessly copied that template over and over. It's exactly what you do when you succeed without knowing why, so you're afraid to change anything, in case you break whatever made you successful. Once something achieves even a small success, CBU3 etches it into stone and turns it into an immutable part of every expansion. Blood Gauge on HW DRK became "Job Gauges for everyone!" Eureka in SB became "Relics always locked behind shitty FATE grinds!" Hunts and treasure maps are exactly the same now as when they were first added over a decade ago.

And we all know, sight unseen, that 8.0 will launch with two new DPS jobs, six dungeons and three trials at x3, x9, and x0 levels, six zones, one new city and one new endgame hub, that 8.05, 8.2, and 8.4 will have four raids, that 8.1, 8.3, and 8.5 will each have a 24-man, that 8.25 will introduce a relic gated behind a shitty FATE grind...

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I find it funny when YoshyP speaks about his creative team... bruh all yall do is copy and paste content

I swear he said a couple years ago that it was happening in 8.0 but what's new. It's not like the job design is one of the biggest complaints this expansion has had or anything.

This is what I thought when I read that. I wonder if they'll alleviate the "everything is the same" through specializations... (looks at wow's history with talent trees) hmm... here's hoping?

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Originally Posted by LukaRoselia

I swear he said a couple years ago that it was happening in 8.0 but what's new. It's not like the job design is one of the biggest complaints this expansion has had or anything.

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Well, I'm sure he will say whatever is necessary to ensure that he has us funding his new ring collection in the years 2026/7.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Problem is any content that is lower then like 80 already feels really bad to play, who's having a good experience doing ARR content on a job with half the skills in the first place?

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I don't know about you but personally, there are jobs that I genuinely enjoy playing in ARR level range, such as:

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SCH Lv46-Lv53
Art of War having the same potency as Ruin but without cast time delaying auto-attack, making it a gain on 1 when in melee range.

BLM Lv40-Lv49
Ice Mage in AoE is actually viable, Freeze spam and only switch to Astral Fire to maintain Thunder DoT!

DNC
The damage from Standard Finish feels great.

RPR
Having a melee DPS choice without any positional is neat

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I know not everyone feels this way but I find them enjoyable, being different from rotstions at higher levels makes lower level content more interesting, of course in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Chajii

I don't know about you but personally, there are jobs that I genuinely enjoy playing in ARR level range, such as:



I know not everyone feels this way but I find them enjoyable, being different from rotstions at higher levels makes lower level content more interesting, of course in my opinion.

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I feel otherwise... going back to old rotations just throw me off the level 100 one. It feels extra bad mainly because of how strict and tight you're meant to perform and develop muscle memory with your job.

That's why I actively avoid doing low level roulettes with my main job. I really like doing old content while getting some daily bonus at the same time, but playing a job at a lower level feels like a gruesome task for me.

Even jobs I don't know yet. I've unlocked VPR but the rotation is so bad at that level range that I've decided to level it passively just with Wondrous Tails turn-ins, at least until it reaches a more interesting range.

Muscle memory's one of the major issues with current job design imo. It's devolved into typically being just rotations to perform ad nauseum rather than skillsets you need to think about since most have lost the mechanics backing them. Level sync actually messing with that's one of the few things left that make roulettes bearable for me