Thancred's new face

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Originally Posted by Turethir

Just keeping this bumped - even though the bug report has been moved to "Confirmed/Planning to Address", that isn't a guarantee of a fix and I want to make sure this doesn't disappear into the ether! Let's keep fighting for Thancred! :)

EDIT: Just saw that it's now been moved to Working as Intended. I'm devastated.

HOW can this be working as intended?! What else can we do to bring this to the devs' attention? It makes NO sense that Thancred should be changed in this way at all!

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This is both devastating and maddening news. Thancred is NOT working as intended! The graphic updates absolutely destroyed him, and the fact that the devs can't seem to recognize that fact is beyond frustrating!

It's really concerning how that could even happen. It got moved to Accepted, sat there for a while, and eventually someone qualified to confirm or deny those bug reports marked it "Confirmed". They had to investigate and test to get to that conclusion. Reports marked confirmed shouldn't go anywhere except "Fixed" once it eventually gets fixed.

And it was marked Confirmed for several days, so it wasn't a brief misclick. How can they just "change their mind" after it was examined and confirmed something was wrong?


I don't know, you could try submitting it again... Or submitting another report asking why it was moved when it was marked Confirmed. Or submit a support ticket to speak to a GM about it ingame, though you may not get anything productive from that.

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Originally Posted by Tahli

It's really concerning how that could even happen. It got moved to Accepted, sat there for a while, and eventually someone qualified to confirm or deny those bug reports marked it "Confirmed". They had to investigate and test to get to that conclusion. Reports marked confirmed shouldn't go anywhere except "Fixed" once it eventually gets fixed.

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Correct - if you read the bug report flow, at no point does it say that anything in Confirmed/Planning to Address should move back to Working as Intended. I don't understand it at all.

I feel like I've been on a rollercoaster of emotions and it's genuinely made me cry. We put so much effort into documenting this and it hurts to not even get a single word to explain why he has been left in this state... but the fact that we had so much hope only to have that ripped away feels like such a gut punch.

I'm going to contact customer support to ask for answers, even though I doubt that will get anywhere. Other than that I am not sure what I can do. I think submitting another report would just go to Duplicates... I'll keep bumping this forum thread of course, but otherwise I am at a bit of a loss, and that makes me so, so sad.

I just want my favourite character to look like himself again. I want to look forward to him appearing, not dread how strange and uncanny he looks.

Honestly I think it would be important to give Thancred's face another look over and edit/recreate as well. Thancred's a very important main cast member so would definitely be worth the time and effort spent looking over his face and making the necessary adjustments, time consuming though they may be to tweak the vertices, facial skeleton, rigging weights, normal maps, and textures. His face does really stand out against that of the other npcs, whose faces otherwise look really close to their pre-dawntrail appearance.

Really though it's those lips, mainly, I think, just like the other heads/face models that didn't do so well in the update. My characters lip corners look a bit different post-dawntrail. I wonder if it's something topological or what but it's interesting how many face models were done extremely well considering the changes made to the mesh, textures, and facial rig, and how some face models have eye shapes and lips that look completely different... Like Thancred.

The most minute lip differences can make someone look completely different so it's important for square enix to pay extra close attention to mouths, I think.

This is really disappointing, I loved Thancred 's face. His sharp eyes and little smirk. And especially his bumpy nose!

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Originally Posted by SKAshe

Really though it's those lips, mainly, I think, just like the other heads/face models that didn't do so well in the update. My characters lip corners look a bit different post-dawntrail. I wonder if it's something topological or what but it's interesting how many face models were done extremely well considering the changes made to the mesh, textures, and facial rig, and how some face models have eye shapes and lips that look completely different... Like Thancred.

The most minute lip differences can make someone look completely different so it's important for square enix to pay extra close attention to mouths, I think.

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If there's one thing the devs definitely refuse to touch, it's the lips. No one's concerns about lip shapes have ever been listened to.... if there's even the slightest of changes it's usually to something with textures or eye pupils or more minor stuff that doesn't directly affect meshes. I dunno what we can do to make them re-evaluate mouths, but the DT mouth changes are all awful across the board.

The thing is, since Thancred is an NPC and not a player character, you would think it wouldn't be too much of an issue. I can understand, to an extent, the hesitancy around changing player's faces (as some people will like it and some won't) but Thancred's a one-off and won't affect any other players - assuming they give him his custom face back!

I recently start 7.0 msq and it’s been very long since I saw Thancred face and when he first appeared, my first thought is ‘Is this Thancred?’.
Ul’dah is my starting city, I’ve known Thancred for the longest time, and now he looks very different :(. Other npcs are fine, it’s very weird. I wish they do something about it.

Regarding the bug reports, I’d say they cannot really be trusted. I had a case of Accepted > Fixed , without fixing anything. Then when I reported again it became Working as intended. And guess what? They actually fix them in the end, silently. Took over a year.

I don’t want everybody to give up. Keep bringing up the issue, be loud enough and they won’t be able to ignore any longer. I will go raise my voice in the JP side too.

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Originally Posted by moodud

I recently start 7.0 msq and it’s been very long since I saw Thancred face and when he first appeared, my first thought is ‘Is this Thancred?’.
Ul’dah is my starting city, I’ve known Thancred for the longest time, and now he looks very different :(. Other npcs are fine, it’s very weird. I wish they do something about it.

Regarding the bug reports, I’d say they cannot really be trusted. I had a case of Accepted > Fixed , without fixing anything. Then when I reported again it became Working as intended. And guess what? They actually fix them in the end, silently. Took over a year.

I don’t want everybody to give up. Keep bringing up the issue, be loud enough and they won’t be able to ignore any longer. I will go raise my voice in the JP side too.

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Thank you, moodud! I admired your persistence in getting the fix you wanted for your character. Really appreciate you fighting for our cause as well, that means a lot! :)

I'm feeling encouraged by a few people to keep pushing this, so my next steps are going to be:

1) To contact Customer Support
2) To log a new bug report clearly stating why we do not believe this should be marked as 'Working as Intended'.

I'd really appreciate some input from everyone as to what reasons I can list, as I intend to make this very comprehensive.

My thoughts are:

• Thancred should not be treated any differently from the other NPCs.
• This does not align with the aims of the graphical update as Thancred looks very different from his pre-DT self.
• There are several pieces of in-game media, for example stills on quest previews, which are now out of sync with how Thancred currently looks in-game.
• The mobile version of XIV uses the original Thancred model, and the two should be consistent with his original look.
• We are not requesting a change to the player models, but instead for Thancred to have his own custom face textures back. This is not something which should be controversial among players as a whole.
• This is not just one person requesting this - the numbers of likes and shares across all sites has numbered in the thousands. Almost every Thancred fan I know dislikes the change and I know several people for whom this has caused significant upset.

Does anyone have anything else I can add?

Oh man, I didn't realize it had changed.

I just want to give a huge shout out to SE's support team - I reached out to them about the move to "Working as Intended" and they clarified that this was done because it was considered feedback and not a bug report, and to ensure this is reflected more accurately, the thread has now been moved to the "Not a Bug Report" forum instead.

They also said that they had contacted the team in charge of player feedback and confirmed that this will be "raised for consideration", and reassured me that our concerns were not dismissed.

They were super helpful, very quick to respond and really made me feel like I was being listened to - thank you support team :)

I know this is not a guarantee of a fix, but it makes me feel a great deal better to know that Thancred's face was not considered "Working as Intended", and that this is being reviewed internally. Let's keep this thread from disappearing into the ether in the meantime, and hope that in the future, we get to see Thancred's original face again!

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Originally Posted by Turethir

I just want to give a huge shout out to SE's support team - I reached out to them about the move to "Working as Intended" and they clarified that this was done because it was considered feedback and not a bug report, and to ensure this is reflected more accurately, the thread has now been moved to the "Not a Bug Report" forum instead.

They also said that they had contacted the team in charge of player feedback and confirmed that this will be "raised for consideration", and reassured me that our concerns were not dismissed.

They were super helpful, very quick to respond and really made me feel like I was being listened to - thank you support team :)

I know this is not a guarantee of a fix, but it makes me feel a great deal better to know that Thancred's face was not considered "Working as Intended", and that this is being reviewed internally. Let's keep this thread from disappearing into the ether in the meantime, and hope that in the future, we get to see Thancred's original face again!

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Shout out to you as well for fighting so hard for this!

I'm glad to hear this! :)

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Originally Posted by Turethir

I just want to give a huge shout out to SE's support team - I reached out to them about the move to "Working as Intended" and they clarified that this was done because it was considered feedback and not a bug report, and to ensure this is reflected more accurately, the thread has now been moved to the "Not a Bug Report" forum instead.

They also said that they had contacted the team in charge of player feedback and confirmed that this will be "raised for consideration", and reassured me that our concerns were not dismissed.

They were super helpful, very quick to respond and really made me feel like I was being listened to - thank you support team :)

I know this is not a guarantee of a fix, but it makes me feel a great deal better to know that Thancred's face was not considered "Working as Intended", and that this is being reviewed internally. Let's keep this thread from disappearing into the ether in the meantime, and hope that in the future, we get to see Thancred's original face again!

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Great news! Thank you for all the effort you put into this! :D

Honestly if we can just get the person in charge of making the decision to see that one comparison pic with Emet, Aymeric and Thancred, surely that alone should be enough to immediately see that Thancred needs some TLC! <3

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Originally Posted by Turethir

I just want to give a huge shout out to SE's support team - I reached out to them about the move to "Working as Intended" and they clarified that this was done because it was considered feedback and not a bug report, and to ensure this is reflected more accurately, the thread has now been moved to the "Not a Bug Report" forum instead.

They also said that they had contacted the team in charge of player feedback and confirmed that this will be "raised for consideration", and reassured me that our concerns were not dismissed.

They were super helpful, very quick to respond and really made me feel like I was being listened to - thank you support team :)

I know this is not a guarantee of a fix, but it makes me feel a great deal better to know that Thancred's face was not considered "Working as Intended", and that this is being reviewed internally. Let's keep this thread from disappearing into the ether in the meantime, and hope that in the future, we get to see Thancred's original face again!

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That's a much better outcome than when I had contacted them about the Miqo'te eyebrow issue, very glad to see a step forward for Thancred's face!

Great news indeed!
I probably will not press on the matter about his heavensward ugly choker for now (it appears to be made differently from the ARR / gunbreaker choker from the very beginning) but at least there's still some hope in fixing his face!

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Originally Posted by Turethir

I just want to give a huge shout out to SE's support team - I reached out to them about the move to "Working as Intended" and they clarified that this was done because it was considered feedback and not a bug report, and to ensure this is reflected more accurately, the thread has now been moved to the "Not a Bug Report" forum instead.

They also said that they had contacted the team in charge of player feedback and confirmed that this will be "raised for consideration", and reassured me that our concerns were not dismissed.

They were super helpful, very quick to respond and really made me feel like I was being listened to - thank you support team :)

I know this is not a guarantee of a fix, but it makes me feel a great deal better to know that Thancred's face was not considered "Working as Intended", and that this is being reviewed internally. Let's keep this thread from disappearing into the ether in the meantime, and hope that in the future, we get to see Thancred's original face again!

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This is incredible news! Thank you so much for your dedication and refusal to quit! Here's hoping this will lead to good changes!

really excited to hear that the support team responded so thoroughly! i really hope something comes of this.

i want to again raise some questions i'd have for the team if they decide to keep his face as-is:

- what is gained from such a dramatic change in design? if the plan is to make him look less unique and appear more like an Everyman, frankly, i think it is too late. a decade of a handsome stranger with noticeably different features from other male midlanders being erased is poor treatment of both the character and players that enjoy him.
- what is the plan for e11 boss? was the boss not created to evoke a specific reaction from the audience? changing his face so dramatically diminishes this impact. his design did not change for fru, so why did thancred's change so much for 7.0? this boss is integral to ryne's character arc and makes a large statement about the authority figures in her life. is that not weakened if the link between thancred and e11 boss is weakened first?
- what about official merchandise and swag that include thancred's endwalker render, with a very specific face? personally, i want all of my official thancred merchandise to look uniform and like the same character.
- what is lost by ignoring these concerns? player faith and goodwill. i really urge the team to do some long-term thinking. many of us in this thread have mentioned how hollow and disappointing it feels to replay msq on alts or ng+ now that our favorite character's charm is gone.
- what is gained by taking the time to revisit his new faces and restore his original looks? player faith and goodwill. future subs. future cash shop purchases. personally, if i could see thancred again as i grew to know him, i would be rolling alts until the end of xiv's service. he is that important to me. i know i'm not alone.
- what is lost by revisiting his new faces? development time, presumably. man hours. but would those not eventually be lost if the team were to go back and resculpt e11 boss? to go back and retake still frames shown throughout msq that show his old faces? or was the plan to change him so dramatically, and then leave those as is, providing the players, new and old, with an inconsistent presentation of the character?

i'll be keeping my fingers crossed that we hear some good news soon. a huge thank you to turethir for all of their hard work putting together the site, the bug report, and reaching out to the support team.

Aw, thank you so much for the kind words everyone - I really appreciate them! And Xhryse, I totally agree with your points - it would make so many of us so happy to see Thancred's original face once again.

My current plan is to sit tight, keep this thread active and bumped (I would always appreciate bumps/help from anyone if they want to assist on this! Let's keep it in the spotlight!) and then if we have seen no changes by 7.5, I will follow up with another query.

Of course, I'd definitely welcome anyone raising awareness of the issue here or on social media!

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Originally Posted by Turethir

Aw, thank you so much for the kind words everyone - I really appreciate them! And Xhryse, I totally agree with your points - it would make so many of us so happy to see Thancred's original face once again.

My current plan is to sit tight, keep this thread active and bumped (I would always appreciate bumps/help from anyone if they want to assist on this! Let's keep it in the spotlight!) and then if we have seen no changes by 7.5, I will follow up with another query.

Of course, I'd definitely welcome anyone raising awareness of the issue here or on social media!

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We've got to keep advocating for Thancred's face to be restored. I don't want to see my own Midlander face. It's just not him.

Bumping this back to the top - let's save Thancred's face! <3

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Originally Posted by Darko

We've got to keep advocating for Thancred's face to be restored. I don't want to see my own Midlander face. It's just not him.

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this is such a good point - it must be so strange for m middies to go from playing with a thancred whose face was very distinct to playing with a thancred whose face is a weird mirror image!

Wanted to post to say I how I still hope Thancred’s face gets fixed. It’s still disappointing there doesn’t seem to any acknowledgement of it yet especially when a lot of fans have voiced their disappointment with it especially when other characters look fine.

thread bump
really hoping this gets acknowledged at some point :c

Bumping this back to the top before the patch! Keep the fire alive :)

Bumping.

Thancred's face has to be restored.

Bumping because I still miss my boy :(

Justice for Thancred!

Bumping again.
I miss my handsome stranger, Tails. I miss him a lot.

bumping!

i recently went through old screenshots from my first msq playthrough... man, i miss him. those are screenshots i could sift through all day. ones i took in 7.0, despite the graphics rework, do not have the same effect on me. i do not want to linger on content--new or old--that has his new face in it. it's a real shame.

Bumping :)

I totally know how you feel. I would always get so excited to see fan screenshots with Thancred, but now it just hurts to look at them because it's just not him anymore. Still crossing my fingers that the team will listen to our concerns! It makes no sense why characters who only appear in one or two expansions (or even less) have more faithful updates than a main Scion.

Bumping!

Thancred is part of my wolship, and I really miss his old look! I want my handsome rogue back!

Recently finished 7.3 and realized that Thancred (and Uri) has zero appearance in the patches so far and now I’m coping that may be the devs acknowledged that people are unhappy about his new face so they put him aside and try doing something about it (maximum copium).

I hope the devs listen. When the lighting hits his face the wrong way he looks downright terrifying. It's like a jump scare! They need to bring back his old face so bad.

bumping again since its been a few days since the last post.

Bumping - and thank you to everyone else who has been bumping as well! It's so lovely to see so many people coming out in support of restoring Thancred's face :)

The devs have hinted that many of the scions will be gone for a bit and only bringing them out when they are needed for the story. This implies we will see a mostly new cast joining us and a cameo for the older characters.

I’m expecting Thancred, Uri and Y’shtola to be “retired” to the First when portal travel is available as they have connections there now.
We can go visit them but they will be settling down to restart their lives outside of adventuring.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

The devs have hinted that many of the scions will be gone for a bit and only bringing them out when they are needed for the story. This implies we will see a mostly new cast joining us and a cameo for the older characters.

I’m expecting Thancred, Uri and Y’shtola to be “retired” to the First when portal travel is available as they have connections there now.
We can go visit them but they will be settling down to restart their lives outside of adventuring.

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I personally disagree with this - I think all the Scions will be making appearances up until the end - but whether or not that happens, the fact is that Thancred's face has been affected throughout the entire game, not just going forward. This means that we can't even relive our old adventures with him without seeing a completely different face.

It's why it's so important for him to be fixed!

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Originally Posted by Turethir

I personally disagree with this - I think all the Scions will be making appearances up until the end - but whether or not that happens, the fact is that Thancred's face has been affected throughout the entire game, not just going forward. This means that we can't even relive our old adventures with him without seeing a completely different face.

It's why it's so important for him to be fixed!

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I agree. Not just about Thancred's face, but with the Scions making appearances. There would be riots if the Scions suddenly stopped appearing. They've been our friends and companions throughout our adventures and I personally don't want to adventure without them. New friends are great, but I haven't spent the last several expansions building a history with them.