Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Light Spoilers. I'm only at the first Trial currently, so take my words with as much salt as you need.]
One issue is just how the whole story is presented to us.
We're going to Tural for two reasons, because it's a good fight, and so we can prevent Tural from going to war with Garlemald.
We really shouldn't care about effecting the leadership of a foreign nation that until now, we've never been to, but the story puts an immense emphasis on Wuk Lamat's qualities and her goal of being a nation leader. If that was just a background detail, and it was presented as more of a simple sibling rivalry, then I feel as though it would be easier to get invested, Ironically enough. This was meant to be the low stakes summer vacation expansion after all. Wuk Lamat shows every chance given that she's not suitable to become a leader, yet we're meant to support her emphatically.
This wouldn't be an issue save for the fact that Thancred and Urianger are here to support a different candidate. They had to make Koana likable enough that the other scions supporting him wouldn't be out of character, but still not the best candidate for the role. I feel as though they failed at that second aspect, at least at the start. They needed to show us immediately why Wuk Lamat is the best choice for the role. The other two candidates, I can see. (maybe a bit too much for Bakool Ja Ja. Dude's a cartoon character and a half) but it's such a subjective thing with Koana, that I've seen a ton of people who really want to support him instead. This expansion doesn't do subtlety well at all, so some dialogue to show just how little Koana cares for his own nation's history and traditions would do wonders to turning us away from him.
Honestly, I think the only reason Alphinaud and Alisaie are even here is so we choose to stay with three scions rather than leaving Krile behind to go join our other friends. Again, if they played into the fact that this was a fun sibling rivalry, we wouldn't need to think about who's got the better tax policy or whatever, we'd just be trying to playfully one-up each other while still being friends.

That's just a story structure issue. When talking with Lamat (and there's a lot of that) It's always the same few beats over and over again. She's getting down on herself. She's seasick, she's scared, or she's reading off the moral of the day into the camera while we pen out a letter to Princess Celestia. I just wanted my character to go "Yeah, maybe you're right. Your brothers should be Dawnservant instead. I'll go join them", to really push her to get over herself and stop fighting with herself. It feels almost like she's fishing for compliments at times. This is why I would have been tempted to join Koana. He's insensitive, but he actually makes a plan, consults others in devising a solution, and goes through with it with barely a word. Yeah, he didn't explicitly fix up the festival float, but then again, why should that responsibility go to anyone other than the leadership of the town the festival is located in? They both have a lot of room to grow as leaders. Wuk Lamat has a ton of flaws to overcome, but Koana only has a few areas he needs to start taking into account to be ready.

I don't hate the story so far. The only expansions that I'd argue have strong openings are Heavensward and Shadowbringers. Carried almost entirely by the preceding patches. I love Endwalker to death, but was feeling similar dour feelings around the same point in the story. The scene with Gulool Ja Ja (hope I remember that right) gives me a lot of hope for the rest of the story, and for once I was able to voice that Wuk Lamat isn't capable of leading just yet.
Really, we needed a lot less Wuk Lamat main character-ing, and a lot more of her likable traits that aren't just her being quirky or funny. She got a laugh out of me a few times, I'll admit, and her bickering with Erenville is pretty endearing.
Maybe my expectations are a bit skewed after how amazing Shadowbringers and Endwalker were. When I first started the game, I thought A Realm Reborn was among the best game stories I've ever seen, and Heavensward would need to do a lot to top it. Either way, the game is still a ton of fun, and I don't doubt that Lamat will grow on me as time passes.

You realize the whole point of going to Tural was to help Wuk Lamat, right? It's even one of the first things being said in the trailer. You're not the main character in this expansion, Wuk Lamat are.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

I discovered why it’s been a boring start with DT. We got stuck with the unfun promise. Learning to grow, power of friendship, smiling and nodding is boring. I was enjoying the scheming and fighting between the other characters. Why did we get the lame character? Why couldn’t we help the first promise?

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First promise is the most interesting... character in the DT story. Just you see.

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Originally Posted by Viking_Pete

You realize the whole point of going to Tural was to help Wuk Lamat, right? It's even one of the first things being said in the trailer. You're not the main character in this expansion, Wuk Lamat are.

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That would be fine if Wuk Lamat was an interesting character.

She is not. She's an annoying teenager girl who develops into a Scion of the Seventh Dawn clone.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

That would be fine if Wuk Lamat was an interesting character.

She is not. She's an annoying teenager girl who develops into a Scion of the Seventh Dawn clone.

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She's not annoying. She have her flaws, yes, but that's part of her character growth. You're there to mentor her, nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Viking_Pete

She's not annoying. She have her flaws, yes, but that's part of her character growth. You're there to mentor her, nothing else.

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She's annoying

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Originally Posted by Viking_Pete

You realize the whole point of going to Tural was to help Wuk Lamat, right? It's even one of the first things being said in the trailer. You're not the main character in this expansion, Wuk Lamat are.

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& she's an awful main character like Vaan when far better side characters that'd been better MCs like koana, honestly wish I was in Koana team he has similar quality's but not to extremes take Wuk & overall more interesting not so one dimensional.

She's annoying, both from a lore and a meta perspective. They keep forcing the same food/seasick/<insert mode of travel> aversion gags, and her english dub is one of the worst in the game.

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Originally Posted by Viking_Pete

You realize the whole point of going to Tural was to help Wuk Lamat, right? It's even one of the first things being said in the trailer. You're not the main character in this expansion, Wuk Lamat are.

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I came to Tural because there's a big warrior who wants to fight a strong opponent. I couldn't really care what happens in this continent I'd never even heard of.
Achieved at level 92. Now I'm just going with the flow.

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Originally Posted by Viking_Pete

She's not annoying. She have her flaws, yes, but that's part of her character growth.

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yeah nah, she's annoying. Way less so in Japanese but even without the unmitigated mess of that English voice they chose, she is still very shallow.

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Originally Posted by Viking_Pete

She's not annoying. She have her flaws, yes, but that's part of her character growth. You're there to mentor her, nothing else.

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In what world is a mentoring teenage girl arc good story.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

In what world is a mentoring teenage girl arc good story.

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Mentoring could be interesting. But we're not that. We're little more than a glorified retainer.

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Originally Posted by Viking_Pete

She's not annoying. She have her flaws, yes, but that's part of her character growth. You're there to mentor her, nothing else.

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I don't disagree with this but the problem is that we are not actually mentoring her. We are very passive, mostly just fetch stuff for her or nod encouragingly. We don't actually show her the ropes with regard to...anything really, even though we have 5 expacs worth of experience with the toughest battles and political turmoil Eorzea/Eytheris/the whole universe has to offer.

I'm at the 3rd zone and honestly I don't mind her being a girlfailure, but I can see how she's a pain to other people.

Personally, I just think that her personality works better as a side character/comic relief, and it wasn't the best choice for a character who has literally the entire expansion revolve around her.

It doesn't help that there isn't any sense of tension with this essentially just being a summer vacation and it honestly feeling like we're just competing against trash-talking kindergarteners that we could end at any moment

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

I'm at the 3rd zone and honestly I don't mind her being a girlfailure, but I can see how she's a pain to other people.

Personally, I just think that her personality works better as a side character/comic relief, and it wasn't the best choice for a character who has literally the entire expansion revolve around her.

It doesn't help that there isn't any sense of tension with this essentially just being a summer vacation and it honestly feeling like we're just competing against trash-talking kindergarteners that we could end at any moment

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Yeah to me I can understand people not being too bothered by her presence in the story, but obviously if you don't like the character (I don't hate her I'm just tired and not that interested) it really drags the story down.

The real issue is that it feels like you are literally toying with this entire continent as the WoL, and the Scions are essentially there to curb any fun you might have. The only time the WoL seems to do anything it's like an immediate solution switch that removes tension completely.
It almost makes it feel like this was a plot made without the WoL in mind, and they just crammed it into an expansion.

Dunno, I kinda like her. She feels relatable. She isn't perfect, but she's trying her best. She has her faults but is slowly learning to overcome them.

Is she fit to be a leader of a nation? Maybe not. But she's making an effort to get to know the people, their ways of life and their needs. I feel like being able to connect to people, to work together with others and find common grounds is quite a valuable trait for a potential future leader. I'd rather see her as the new Dawnservant than the warmonger or the two-headed biggot. Can't say for sure who I'd rather pick between her and Koana, cause I haven't seen a lot of the later's personality yet.

Also don't have any problem with her voice. I think it fits the character and haven't noticed any glaring issues, though I'm no expert when it comes to voice acting. As long as I can imagine the character having that voice, I'm fine with it. People have different voices, and I'm not gonna judge someone based on how they sound or what accent they use.

I haven't played very far into the story yet, just past the first dungeon. But so far I'm enjoying it overall. I don't mind that our main char is side-lined a bit, to a role of mentor and maybe protector. I was fully expecting a more easy going expansion after the high stakes of Endwalker, and also a story with less tension and low stakes. So far it's been meeting my expectations, a somewhat relaxed adventure in a new place with neat music and exotic environments. I enjoy traveling along Wuk Lamat and some familiar companions, helping her grow to possibly become a capable leader.

Probably not a common opinion in this topic, since a lot seem to dislike her. Just wanted to add my voice to show that not everyone hates her or finds her annoying. Everyone's free to have their own opinion, and this is mine ^^

I liked Wuk Lamat during the serious moment, she was a relatable character.

However I don't like the way the MSQ was narrated and the comical goofy moment, I believe those two aspects pulls the MSQ downward. It's okay to have jokes such as Wuk lamat having sea sickness but the "meat for brain" jokes are at the same level as "fat guy is always hungry ahah".

However her relatable moments are fantastic, she feels human. I heavily encourage the writers to accelerate the pacing even if it means another Raubhan EX and to focus on those relatable moments.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

It doesn't help that there isn't any sense of tension with this essentially just being a summer vacation and it honestly feeling like we're just competing against trash-talking kindergarteners that we could end at any moment

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At the Moblin village, when Alisaie asked

what Bakool might have planned to cause trouble for us, with that sense of him being an actual threat, it felt so off. Why would she consider this oversized bully an actual danger to us. If he pulled any stunts and we changed gears into "serious mode" he'd be quiet real quick.
I don't know if he'll tap into some mysterious force to power himself up later but until that happens there is no reason for us to consider him a serious opponent.
I know working with our WoL's powerlevel after EW is very difficult and will have to break logic in some regards. Otherwise it would be impossible to have any story with stakes for our characters at this point.
But I don't think they are pulling it off well so far. It feels like we are forced to worry about him for the plot's sake, not because it makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

Snip.

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Honestly, I'm kind of expecting a forced loss at some point for "tension", though I'm only just past the 1st dungeon.

But maybe that's just me being salty because even though we beat freaking Zenos-Controlled Shinryuu and also Omega, we somehow struggle to beat an old man (Ranjit) in Shadowbringers, even though the only noteworthy thing about him is that he's grinded out killing a bunch of trash mobs (Sin Eaters) and I guess he knows some irrelevant martial art. As powerful as our character is lorewise, we unfortunately still have weakness to plot contrivances.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I know working with our WoL's powerlevel after EW is very difficult and will have to break logic in some regards. Otherwise it would be impossible to have any story with stakes for our characters at this point.[/HB]

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Well, thanks to Dynamis, we can win or lose any and every fight just because the writers decide that we don't want it enough, or we don't have the right motivation to get amped up.
It's a fine enough plot point, but only to keep the stakes actually manageable. Maybe it would be a bit weird that some two headed Mamool-Ja could give us trouble where the pure manifestation of sorrow and destruction couldn't. Maybe it's the same reason Zenos nearly did us in while Endsinger was more of a victory lap. Once it starts going into the realm of forced losses to obviously weaker opponents, that's when I'll lose interest in that whole idea.

After a few minutes I just realized Wuk Lamat suffers from the G'raha Tia syndrom...
Very good character on paper, pulled down by way too many jokes.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

After a few minutes I just realized Wuk Lamat suffers from the G'raha Tia syndrom...
Very good character on paper, pulled down by way too many jokes.

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This, overexposure and the constant insistence by other characters and the devs that theyre an awesome person.
A good character should not need this much constant affirmation by others how great they are, you should be able to tell by interacting with them.

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Originally Posted by GartredZW

Well, thanks to Dynamis, we can win or lose any and every fight just because the writers decide that we don't want it enough, or we don't have the right motivation to get amped up.
It's a fine enough plot point, but only to keep the stakes actually manageable. Maybe it would be a bit weird that some two headed Mamool-Ja could give us trouble where the pure manifestation of sorrow and destruction couldn't. Maybe it's the same reason Zenos nearly did us in while Endsinger was more of a victory lap. Once it starts going into the realm of forced losses to obviously weaker opponents, that's when I'll lose interest in that whole idea.

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To be honest I no longer care about story inconsistencies due to WoL's powerlevel.

It's just hard to balance that, I get it.

But the DT story is full of bizarre powerlevel inconsistencies that don't even involve the WoL... Wuk Lamat is one. You'll see another extremely bizarre one near the end of Lv98.

I do agree with OP, Wuk Lamat is an extremely annoying character and the msq sucks regardless, but she makes it even worse

For this story I just assumed the second anything would go wrong Wuk would become Ranjiit tiers of powerful and instantly kill anything for us that was a problem. I wasn't wrong. Just gotta bank on the JP side hating it when it makes no sense we are struggling with a fight with scions that killed ultra gods in a beach expansion.

Caveat I have not played the new content.

From what I am reading Wuk Lamat sounds like the Jarjar Binx of FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

Caveat I have not played the new content.

From what I am reading Wuk Lamat sounds like the Jarjar Binx of FFXIV.

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I wouldn't say shes nearly as annoying and silly as JarJar, the problem is that she is VERY silly and VERY incompetent compared to what she aspires to be, and she gets way more screentime than is justified, to the point where the first 60% of the MSQ is basically a subpar standalone Final Fantasy game about Wuk Lamat, not about the WoL coming to Tural.
Combine this with there actually being close to nothing going on other than interpersonal drama between the four very underdeveloped Candidates, and repetitive formulaic story beats that make it feel like Wuk learns the same lesson seven times in a row. It just flat out feels like amateur writing and directing. It is astounding to me that this was produced and shipped as a finished product.

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Originally Posted by Swad

For this story I just assumed the second anything would go wrong Wuk would become Ranjiit tiers of powerful and instantly kill anything for us that was a problem. I wasn't wrong. Just gotta bank on the JP side hating it when it makes no sense we are struggling with a fight with scions that killed ultra gods in a beach expansion.

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This is my big worry. This fan base is so ravid when it comes to any criticism. For the first time ever I'm seeing people in game complaining about the story in shout chat. But then it gets dog piled on by the die hards, with people saying they are blocking anyone criticizing the story and how everything is perfect.

So most likely Yoshi and his team will get nothing but praise and nothing will change. But I'm a glass half full kind of person, so maybe I'll be surprised and the JP side can pull a win for us all. Because I truly believe they are the only ones being pandered too when it comes to the story.

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Originally Posted by Elodie_Einsbern

This is my big worry. This fan base is so ravid when it comes to any criticism. For the first time ever I'm seeing people in game complaining about the story in shout chat. But then it gets dog piled on by the die hards, with people saying they are blocking anyone criticizing the story and how everything is perfect.

So most likely Yoshi and his team will get nothing but praise and nothing will change. But I'm a glass half full kind of person, so maybe I'll be surprised and the JP side can pull a win for us all. Because I truly believe they are the only ones being pandered too when it comes to the story.

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I wouldn't say that, cause in a month when the sub figures for the expac comes out low as all hell they will know. They might not know why due to the zealots telling them the sun shines out their rears. But they will at least know they screwed up. It's sad to see, as they did a good job capitalising on the WoW expac falling flat, but now looks like wow will end up eating a significant chunk of the playerbases come end of august and I don't really see many coming back when all they have to offer is a terrible story and worse gameplay than EW.

This expac was made for tweens and the uwu cringe crowd that plays this game, and I don't think they are close to the majority of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

I wouldn't say that, cause in a month when the sub figures for the expac comes out low as all hell they will know. They might not know why due to the zealots telling them the sun shines out their rears. But they will at least know they screwed up. It's sad to see, as they did a good job capitalising on the WoW expac falling flat, but now looks like wow will end up eating a significant chunk of the playerbases come end of august and I don't really see many coming back when all they have to offer is a terrible story and worse gameplay than EW.

This expac was made for tweens and the uwu cringe crowd that plays this game, and I don't think they are close to the majority of the playerbase.

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Thats always been the issue though. I'm not saying FFXIV is going to die because of this, outside of something truly catastrophic like adding NFT's, this game is literally too big to fail. But how many MMO's have suffered from this exact scenario? Quality will continue too drop because of die hard ravid fans, and the ship never gets corrected because they don't know whats going on. As they continue to lose players

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Originally Posted by Malthir

This expac was made for tweens and the uwu cringe crowd that plays this game, and I don't think they are close to the majority of the playerbase.

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Bro, I worship at the altar of Yoshi-P and love everything up to 6.5 including every moment and sidequest of ARR and even I can't stand Dawntrail so far. The story, pacing, characters and delivery are appalling. Everything else is great but FF14 is THE story MMO, you can't have that implode and not have the game suffer.

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Originally Posted by Elodie_Einsbern

So most likely Yoshi and his team will get nothing but praise

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I wonder if there are any critical posts on JP forums? From what I've been told, devs do read those (unlike ENG ones).

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Originally Posted by Zaniel

Bro, I worship at the altar of Yoshi-P and love everything up to 6.5 including every moment and sidequest of ARR and even I can't stand Dawntrail so far. The story, pacing, characters and delivery are appalling. Everything else is great but FF14 is THE story MMO, you can't have that implode and not have the game suffer.

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Based take. I've loved every second of the MSQ up until DT. I'd rather watch paint dry than play any more of the MSQ at this point.

Shes not only fine I enjoy her character. Dont change a thing

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Originally Posted by Larom

Based take. I've loved every second of the MSQ up until DT. I'd rather watch paint dry than play any more of the MSQ at this point.

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It's definitely hard coming from Endwalker to this...Maybe I'm giving them too much leeway for I don't think it's terrible but I'm finding it very hard to give the story so far anything higher than a 7 to where I'am(mid third zone).

I really wasn't thinking much when I started the MSQ, but when Wuk Lamat had seasickness I kinda knew what I was in for, but didn't think it would be this bad. I stopped at level 95 because Wuk Lamat is very annoying and demands way to much attention to be a good character, basically the main character at this point. The voice actor is not talented and makes the whole experience even worse. Probably going to skip this entire MSQ if I start playing again. This is the first time I have really had a complaint about the MSQ cause its always been decently interesting, but the whole MSQ is just terribly written

The scene where WOL is in private...*KNOCKNOCK* "HEY ITS WUK GOTTA TELL YOU SOMETHING"..."TEHEE"..."AHHH I CANT"...."????" that entire scene made me alt+f4

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Originally Posted by johnnytwotime

The scene where WOL is in private...*KNOCKNOCK* "HEY ITS WUK GOTTA TELL YOU SOMETHING"..."TEHEE"..."AHHH I CANT"...."????" that entire scene made me alt+f4

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That scene was pure cringe, the german VA at least tried her very best to make it not that bad but still. Don't even wanna know how terrible it sounds with the english VA... I already hated it.

I'm not usually a cutscene skipper, but even I have to admit she's getting rather jarring, might have to skip some of the more painful ones

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Originally Posted by Aniise

That scene was pure cringe, the german VA at least tried her very best to make it not that bad but still. Don't even wanna know how terrible it sounds with the english VA... I already hated it.

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It was bad. I do not mind her English voice actor but that scene made everything that people were saying about her and Wuk Lamat as a character come into glaring focus. Definitely cringe.

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Originally Posted by Verathel

It was bad. I do not mind her English voice actor but that scene made everything that people were saying about her and Wuk Lamat as a character come into glaring focus. Definitely cringe.

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It's way better in Japanese. At least it makes sense why...

she would be embarrassed about being alone in a room with the WOL instead of just being "stuffy in here."

Another of the many differences between the English and Japanese writing that I struggle to understand or justify.