Really? They put Shadowkeeper on the Mog Station?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

The real excuse everyone gives is that "they were free, so it's fine", meaning that if a new players wants the same stuff then "too bad, sucks for you, now buy it and shut up"

Doesn't seem fair to me and I did obtain the free versions of said attires in the past. But I thought all of this stuff should count as new content for new players, so now we draw the line?



Correct. Now it's not free anymore, it's in the shop for a price. New players lost their chances and now if they want those items they have to purchase them

I don't see the problem here? Are you saying that new players can get them again, right here, right now, for free?

---

Didnt say that was my reasoning. Again my reasoning is the quantity and quality of the stuff you earn in-game vs cash shop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

PS: I tried to remove the "free" stuff that is no longer free. Could be inaccurate, but feel free to change. Doesn't change a whole lot

---

Actually it changes the list a lot. Select online exclusive
Items that are exclusive

The ffxiv shop has:
- 26 mounts (4 of those being reskins)
- 8 minions
- 67 costumes sets
- 22 emotes
- 20 dyes (why counting multiple sets of the same dye..) Majority of those available in game.
- 20 weapon skins (singles again)
- 4 armors (rest have been available in game)
- 0 accessories all have been available in game.
- 5 chocobo bardings
- 24 orchestrion rolls
- 22 housing items not including sets or items that have been available.
- 0 face paints
- 0 fashion accessory
- 0 tool

So is it really that big of a deal???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Items that are exclusive

The ffxiv shop has:
- 26 mounts (4 of those being reskins)
- 8 minions
- 67 costumes sets
- 22 emotes
- 20 dyes (why counting multiple sets of the same dye..) Majority of those available in game.
- 20 weapon skins (singles again)
- 4 armors (rest have been available in game)
- 0 accessories all have been available in game.
- 5 chocobo bardings
- 24 orchestrion rolls
- 22 housing items not including sets or items that have been available.
- 0 face paints
- 0 fashion accessory
- 0 tool

So is it really that big of a deal???

---

Considering that, once again the wow Shop has currently:
- 24 mounts
- 21 pets
- 1 toy
- 5 transmog/costume sets

What do you think the answer is?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Considering that, once again the wow Shop has currently:
- 24 mounts
- 21 pets
- 1 toy
- 5 transmog/costume sets

What do you think the answer is?

---

Yet makes up on it via wow tokens...ok dude ok lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Didnt say that was my reasoning. Again my reasoning is the quantity and quality of the stuff you earn in-game vs cash shop.

---

I'd say it's very debatable: you will never find a good of a mount as, say, cruise chaser in game, but SOME other mounts okay i guess? Same thing for costumes: some are fine - like this alt is wearing - but most are really so-so. The 2B costume from the nier raid was probably one of the best free costumes you can get and I even bet that it was going to be cash shop stuff. Glad I lost the bet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

I'd say it's very debatable: you will never find a good of a mount as, say, cruise chaser in game, but SOME other mounts okay i guess? Same thing for costumes: some are fine - like this alt is wearing - but most are really so-so. The 2B costume from the nier raid was probably one of the best free costumes you can get and I even bet that it was going to be cash shop stuff. Glad I lost the bet.

---

Youre right its debatable because

A. Cruise Chaser I find is slow feeling and boring

B. 2b costume is also safe and boring in terms of glam compared to the other plethora of free costumes and attires gotten through sidequests

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Yet makes up on it via wow tokens...ok dude ok lol

---

The token is the biggest cope of the FF14 playerbase. Square sells you gil, both directly and indirectly. There is no difference except you are a fanboy for one game and hate the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You do realize expecting Blizzard NOT to monetize Traders Post is going to make you look like a fool once the buyable tendies feature comes out right?

The reason people say that itll be implemented because the same thing happens over and over again when things gets datamined. May I need to remind you that the WoW Token was datamined in Burning Classic before theyve implemented in Wrath Classic?

The history is there, youre just choosing to ignore it.

Anyway the only good thing FFXIV has going for itself is that the cash shop isnt in your face constantly in-game and isnt as destructive or intrusive with the integrity of the game in terms of progression. Only big thing I can say is that you can buy gil which is bad but at least you cant buy mgp or tomestones like some other MMOs would most likely do for monetization

---

People said "the store will be full of cosmetics" in 2013 when store helmets came out. Took nearly 10 years for the first transmog set to appear on the store lol.

Theres a bigger history of Square puting stuff in the store vs Blizzard as the other poster demonstrated. Remember its Square that sells you event rewards because you dared to unsub or not play during that time. In WoW i can wait for halloween and buy rewards from 10 years ago with INGAME CURRENCY.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Yet makes up on it via wow tokens...ok dude ok lol

---

We're talking about cash shop items, not services. Because if that's the case I could add the whole fantasia, level boosting (one for each class), story skipping (with different pricings) and retainer rental slots and level boosting for these too.

Sure, the wow token deal is hit or miss - even though it's used mainly to buy yourself subscriptions with ingame currency - but beyond that, do you still think ffxiv shop is better?

Also, EVE online also has something similar where you buy subscription with ingame money, Wildstar did that too. And you can be sure if ffxiv did the same a lot of players would immediately dive into the whole idea and probably save a lot of money too. There are plenty of players with millions in their wallets and having the ability to basically play this game for "free" with ingame currency, they wouldn't think twice about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinkuno

There is no difference except you are a fanboy for one game and hate the other.

---

Hmm not sure where I said I hate the other? Wouldnt really make sense to hate the other when a lot of features came from WoW...As for feelings for the game it just doesnt look like my cup of tea as I just dont like the cartoon style, but cant say like or hate as ive never played it.

If you want an observers opinion WoW clearly leads the way when it comes to pets/companions etc and mounts as the amount we have vastly dwarfs them. The cash shop isnt really the problem. The problem is the content is so unrewarding or you get rewarded weeks/months later. Dungeons could have craft mats to make extra minion or glams with rare mount drops. Furniture is useless as they have a crap housing system. Even if they added all the crap from the store from day one we would still be complaining theres not enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Youre right its debatable because

A. Cruise Chaser I find is slow feeling and boring

B. 2b costume is also safe and boring in terms of glam compared to the other plethora of free costumes and attires gotten through sidequests

---

In this case, please tell me which ingame item and mount have the same quality as to those in the shop, as it is your reasoning right here:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Didnt say that was my reasoning. Again my reasoning is the quantity and quality of the stuff you earn in-game vs cash shop.

---

and I gave you mine, which you disagree. Therefore, which is it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinkuno

The token is the biggest cope of the FF14 playerbase. Square sells you gil, both directly and indirectly. There is no difference except you are a fanboy for one game and hate the other.




People said "the store will be full of cosmetics" in 2013 when store helmets came out. Took nearly 10 years for the first transmog set to appear on the store lol.

Theres a bigger history of Square puting stuff in the store vs Blizzard as the other poster demonstrated. Remember its Square that sells you event rewards because you dared to unsub or not play during that time. In WoW i can wait for halloween and buy rewards from 10 years ago with INGAME CURRENCY.

---

Yeah because those items are still the same thing every year while FFXIV they usually circulate newer stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

In this case, please tell me which ingame item and mount have the same quality as to those in the shop, as it is your reasoning right here:



and I gave you mine, which you disagree. Therefore, which is it?

---

Any of the mounts you get from Bozja,
Morbol mount from Blue Mage,
Any of the PvP mounts,
Tribal quest mounts
The little aircraft you get from Kefka savage

And glam outfits you can just name anything such as the ones you get from the MSQ for free, the eastern garb you get from Tatarus Grand Endeavor, a lot of the Ivalice gear being altered costumes of FFTactics and FFXII characters.

Theres a lot more there than just the overly used boring 2B pieces you find.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah because those items are still the same thing every year while FFXIV they usually circulate newer stuff.

---

Nothing stops them from adding the old rewards to the NPC they have at every event where you can buy fireworks. Stop coping. For real, its embarassing.

If youre trying to base off the the glam and mounts you get from cash shop are a lot better than the ones you can get in-game, you people have terrible taste

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinkuno

Nothing stops them from adding the old rewards to the NPC they have at every event where you can buy fireworks. Stop coping. For real, its embarassing.

---

Yeah Im sure WoW players really care about that textured in noble looking outfit along with the cosmetics youre only allowed to wear during the event btw!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah Im sure WoW players really care about that textured in noble looking outfit along with the cosmetics youre only allowed to wear during the event btw!

---

"B-But see... WoW is bad!!!"

Cope harder. Hope you were a good boy and already bought the Shadow Wolf. Square is in dire need of your support to finance all their failed NFT projects.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinkuno

"B-But see... WoW is bad!!!"

Cope harder. Hope you were a good boy and already bought the Shadow Wolf. Square is in dire need of your support to finance all their failed NFT projects.

---

Yeah Im sure Blizzard is taking those huge Ws with their business decisions in their games recently with the community so well too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Any of the mounts you get from Bozja,
Morbol mount from Blue Mage,
Any of the PvP mounts,
Tribal quest mounts
The little aircraft you get from Kefka savage

And glam outfits you can just name anything such as the ones you get from the MSQ for free, the eastern garb you get from Tatarus Grand Endeavor, a lot of the Ivalice gear being altered costumes of FFTactics and FFXII characters.

Theres a lot more there than just the overly used boring 2B pieces you find.

---

No trial mounts? No craftable mounts? Also what about job specific ones like the bear, lion, coeurl or war tiger? Or Fenrir? And now that I'm looking at the list, wow so many mounts are now unobtainable too! Such as the regalia, the whisper mount, or the various pvp seasonal mounts (and glamours) that are now impossible to obtain.

And what about the stuff like Taffetta Armor and light steel galerus? They're clearly unsafe! And can't forget the spring dress either. Or even the Neo-Ishgardian wear this character is currently using.
And if we count raid gear, then High Allagan and Dreadwyrm gear is also there, or even the shire set...is it me or ARR and HW stuff was higher quality?

Either way fair enough, you have made a few examples and I will acknowledge that by simply answering the same way you did to me - with a little edit if you don't mind:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Youre right its debatable because

A. [...] I find (your mounts) slow feeling and boring

B. (Your) costumes are also safe and boring in terms of glam compared to the other plethora of free costumes and attires gotten through the cash shop

---

No hard feelings, simply stating my own opinion, even if debatable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah Im sure Blizzard is taking those huge Ws with their business decisions in their games recently with the community so well too

---

You mean how people label Dragonflight as the best Expac since WoTLK? I take that as a huge W considering the hard-on people have for that xpac. But its okay you played WoW for 10 years, burned out and now your tribalism has you defend your newest addiction. Whiteknights with recent join date will never be not funny.

What W is Square taking btw. Failed project after failed project. FF16 is going to be their first hit since KH3 and even that one received mixed reception in the community.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

No trial mounts? No craftable mounts? Also what about job specific ones like the bear, lion, coeurl or war tiger? Or Fenrir? And now that I'm looking at the list, wow so many mounts are now unobtainable too! Such as the regalia, the whisper mount, or the various pvp seasonal mounts (and glamours) that are now impossible to obtain.

And what about the stuff like Taffetta Armor and light steel galerus? They're clearly unsafe! And can't forget the spring dress either. Or even the Neo-Ishgardian wear this character is currently using.
And if we count raid gear, then High Allagan and Dreadwyrm gear is also there, or even the shire set...is it me or ARR and HW stuff was higher quality?

Either way fair enough, you have made a few examples and I will acknowledge that by simply answering the same way you did to me: I find this debatable and I feel those mounts to be slow and boring and those glams safe and boring.

---

I appreciate you actually stepping up with my list because yeah, proves theres just as much better stuff in-game anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinkuno

You mean how people label Dragonflight as the best Expac since WoTLK? I take that as a huge W considering the hard-on people have for that xpac. But its okay you played WoW for 10 years, burned out and now your tribalism has you defend your newest addiction. Whiteknights with recent join date will never be not funny.

What W is Square taking btw. Failed project after failed project. FF16 is going to be their first hit since KH3 and even that one received mixed reception in the community.

---

You are so delusional if you think THATS the language people are saying about DF. The community believes that DF is just better than the previous 2 expansions but nobody ever said just as good as Wrath.

1. The expansion didnt sell as well as Shadowlands

2. If were talking recent company wide Ws, need I remind you the broken promises with Wrath Classic and them ruining it with the WoW Token. As well as the scrapped PvE of OW2? You know the whole reason why that game was made in the first place?

3. Also you have been such out of the loop in regards to FFXVI as the recent demo became a hit with the general audience even going so far as turning people who weee initially off about the game to wanting to buy it.

But keep living in that blissful ignorance of yours I guess

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I appreciate you actually stepping up with my list because yeah, proves theres just as much better stuff in-game anyway

---

If you imply the plentiful reskins of the same mounts and glamours, then yes there is a lot of stuff. Better is debatable, a lot of stuff today is recycled (do I even need to make examples? Fine: the Manalis set is the same as the Diabolc set, the prestige set is a recycle of stuff like high allagan and labyrinth of the ancients, and too many other examples to count)
But yes, there is surely a lot of stuff...but wasn't your point that the quality was better ingame? And not the quantity?

Meanwhile in WoW you can get plenty of better mounts in game for free, such as the hivemind (a 5 seated mount), the mammoth and yak (3 slots), and if you're a druid you can let your friend ride you while you're in your flight form.
As for the transmog...well you can still get the thunderfury, which is one of the best looking weapons in the game, but I assume it's just too boring to have a 2 meter long 1handed sword that shoots lightning.

Say what you will, but wow still has some of the best mounts ingame for free. Meanwhile if I wanted some of the actually good mounts in here, I'd have to dish out cash. Yes, SOME mounts here are good but TOO MANY are locked in the shop. I make the example of Cruise Chaser because...where can I find a similar mount as that? And if you are going to answer "The Gabriel" the answer is "not even close"

Whatever, it's not fair, but I assume people are totally fine with this. Looking forward for more expensive, unique mounts and costumes in the cash shop which I will never buy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

The wow Shop has currently:
- 24 mounts
- 21 pets
- 1 toy
- 5 transmog sets

The ffxiv shop has:
- 36 mounts
- 42 pets (or minions as they're called here)
- 119 costumes sets
- 42 emotes
- 40 sets of dyes
- 30 weapon skins
- 95 armors
- 20 accessories
- 12 chocobo bardings
- 42 orchestrion rolls
- 156 housing items
- 2 face paints
- 1 fashion accessory
- 1 tool

I deliberately omitted stuff like fantasia or race changes and level boosting, as well as "bank slots" or glamour dresser/wardrobe.

But still, am I missing something here or are we really saying that ffxiv cash shop is actually better? Because I don't think I've seen a f2p shop loaded with this much stuff.

---

I'll be honest I never actually even knew there was such a huge difference between FF14 and WoW.

Of course ESO's cash shop could probably compete with FF14's but it shouldn't be a race to the bottom in the first place.

To say something sober for once here, it's actually astounding how Atelier and that other Roe can defend this for so long. It seriously takes some extreme cognitive dissonance to defend SE on every single little thing when the facts are this stark.

All I've witnessed in the last few pages is two people who, when proven wrong, dig their heels in and come up with nonsencial arguments. It reminds me of myself when I was 8, arguing with my dad about stuff, and when my dad told me I'm wrong, instead of accepting it I just clinged to the most incredulous lines of argument. Seriously stupid shit like "maybe he actually likes being hit".

I don't know what to say, but this is really the reason I show absolutely zero respect towards these people.

Why do you think I occasionally talk normally to people here and then just go back to insults and attacks after a week or so? Because despite Volty's lucid and calm explanations, despite his concessions (even when they were right in the first place), despite his unassailable facts, the white knights don't budge a single inch. Whenever you try communicating with white knights seriously, whenever you try engaging with them on good faith, you'll just witness the most pathetic defenses of the game. If Square Enix physically hit someone today, the white knights will defend it by saying "maybe he likes getting hit" like an 8-year-old child. You can write an insightful critique and they'll just respond with "I like that" or "I see no issue".

There are saints who can persist in explaining things to 8-year-old children but I'm not one of them. These white knights either do not have the mental capacity or the desire to ever engage with you in good faith in the first place. These last few pages have proven as much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

No hard feelings, simply stating my own opinion, even if debatable.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You are so delusional.
But keep living in that blissful ignorance of yours I guess

---

I have absolutely zero qualms in making you white knights outraged. You do this to reasonable people. I saw through it a long time ago so I never bothered to be reasonable to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChrisRedfield2

I'll be honest I never actually even knew there was such a huge difference between FF14 and WoW.

Of course ESO's cash shop could probably compete with FF14's but it shouldn't be a race to the bottom in the first place.

To say something sober for once here, it's actually astounding how Atelier and that other Roe can defend this for so long. It seriously takes some extreme cognitive dissonance to defend SE on every single little thing when the facts are this stark.

All I've witnessed in the last few pages is two people who, when proven wrong, dig their heels in and come up with nonsencial arguments. It reminds me of myself when I was 8, arguing with my dad about stuff, and when my dad told me I'm wrong, instead of accepting it I just clinged to the most incredulous lines of argument. Seriously stupid shit like "maybe he actually likes being hit".

I don't know what to say, but this is really the reason I show absolutely zero respect towards these people.

Why do you think I occasionally talk normally to people here and then just go back to insults and attacks after a week or so? Because despite Volty's lucid and calm explanations, despite his concessions (even when they were right in the first place), despite his unassailable facts, the white knights don't budge a single inch. Whenever you try communicating with white knights seriously, whenever you try engaging with them on good faith, you'll just witness the most pathetic defenses of the game. If Square Enix physically hit someone today, the white knights will defend it by saying "maybe he likes getting hit" like an 8-year-old child. You can write an insightful critique and they'll just respond with "I like that" or "I see no issue".

There are saints who can persist in explaining things to 8-year-old children but I'm not one of them. These white knights either do not have the mental capacity or the desire to ever engage with you in good faith in the first place. These last few pages have proven as much.

---

I cannot count games like ESO for one simple reason: they're not pay to play, only WoW is the real comparison that you can make because it's the only other mainstream mmo that is subscription - not counting EVE because it's more niche and very hard to get into, but let's keep it together for the time being. My point is that F2P or B2P can't be really compared as they do make money from the shop since they lack a subscription, which means the shop IS their only way to make money. And I believe on this we can both agree.

Still, I have little to no care about what people will think of me which is why I'm okay talking for once - even though I prefer not to because it's usually not worth it.
I know for sure a lot of people hate me and that's fine, it means I'm doing something right: I've lost all of my friends due to this game, because of my "problematic" opinions and I'm fine with that. I will rather be of my own mind and be forever alone for the rest of my days in this godforsaken game, than blindly accept anything given to me. It's how it is anyway, as you say everyone will defend their actions and, in all honesty, I'm totally okay with that. I enjoy the game despite the flaws and that's all I care, and I will stop for good when I'm ready to stop.

I did my fights, I have my scars, now I simply enjoy doing some scuffles, and as a former wow player myself who played since vanilla I can at least say something.

Which is why I firmly believe that the ffxiv cash shop is the worst one of the two games. And if people disagree then fine by me, keep disagreeing.

Still appreciate the concern, but be careful not to get burned yourself. It's not worth it. I'm only doing it cause I got annoyed at the whole cash shop deal, especially when I can see both sides with ease. I simply disagreed with the cash shop in wow being worse and decided to take my step.

Maybe I should go back now and enjoy some gaming. I probably fought enough for today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You are so delusional if you think THATS the language people are saying about DF. The community believes that DF is just better than the previous 2 expansions but nobody ever said just as good as Wrath.

1. The expansion didnt sell as well as Shadowlands

2. If were talking recent company wide Ws, need I remind you the broken promises with Wrath Classic and them ruining it with the WoW Token. As well as the scrapped PvE of OW2? You know the whole reason why that game was made in the first place?

3. Also you have been such out of the loop in regards to FFXVI as the recent demo became a hit with the general audience even going so far as turning people who weee initially off about the game to wanting to buy it.

But keep living in that blissful ignorance of yours I guess

---

Maybe learn to read. I literally said 16 is gonna be a hit. But cant expect someone that sees the need to defend his favourite company every minute to read.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

I cannot count games like ESO for one simple reason: they're not pay to play, only WoW is the real comparison that you can make because it's the only other mainstream mmo that is subscription - not counting EVE because it's more niche and very hard to get into, but let's keep it together for the time being. My point is that F2P or B2P can't be really compared as they do make money from the shop since they lack a subscription, which means the shop IS their only way to make money. And I believe on this we can both agree.

Still, I have little to no care about what people will think of me which is why I'm okay talking for once - even though I prefer not to because it's usually not worth it.
I know for sure a lot of people hate me and that's fine, it means I'm doing something right: I've lost all of my friends due to this game, because of my "problematic" opinions and I'm fine with that. I will rather be of my own mind and be forever alone for the rest of my days in this godforsaken game, than blindly accept anything given to me. It's how it is anyway, as you say everyone will defend their actions and, in all honesty, I'm totally okay with that. I enjoy the game despite the flaws and that's all I care, and I will stop for good when I'm ready to stop.

I did my fights, I have my scars, now I simply enjoy doing some scuffles, and as a former wow player myself who played since vanilla I can at least say something.

Which is why I firmly believe that the ffxiv cash shop is the worst one of the two games. And if people disagree then fine by me, keep disagreeing.

Still appreciate the concern, but be careful not to get burned yourself. It's not worth it. I'm only doing it cause I got annoyed at the whole cash shop deal, especially when I can see both sides with ease. I simply disagreed with the cash shop in wow being worse and decided to take my step.

Maybe I should go back now and enjoy some gaming. I probably fought enough for today.

---

Why do you ignore me saying that I think the cash shop is still bad anyway? Im just pointing out how ridiculous it is to believe that the quality to the items in the shop compared to in-game is more so.

I may be a bit of a hypocrite since I did buy stuff from the mog station, yet I still dont really like how that shop is getting more and more stuff.
In the past the cash shop was only meant for old event items (instead of just giving them for free with the new events like they did sometimes at the beginning...) and yet here we are, with more and more exclusive, expensive stuff.

The veteran reward system ended and yet instead of letting us exchange mounts of existing bosses with the new systems (the certificates) we barely get anything there while the cash shops gets a lot of updates.

Maybe a bit more balance would be nice. Add different colored versions of the same mount to the different systems. Or give us the chance to earn it ingame but it would be a big grind while you can also buy it online if you dont want to grind for it.

Its sad that we now live in a world where the Diablo IV ingame shop is considered as okay because it could be worse (for a games that costs 70€+). How far will this go until its even too much for most of us? It all started small and even in the past people where like "dont be negative, its only old stuff" and now we get ingame bosses in there...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChrisRedfield2

I'll be honest I never actually even knew there was such a huge difference between FF14 and WoW.

Of course ESO's cash shop could probably compete with FF14's but it shouldn't be a race to the bottom in the first place.

To say something sober for once here, it's actually astounding how Atelier and that other Roe can defend this for so long. It seriously takes some extreme cognitive dissonance to defend SE on every single little thing when the facts are this stark.

All I've witnessed in the last few pages is two people who, when proven wrong, dig their heels in and come up with nonsencial arguments. It reminds me of myself when I was 8, arguing with my dad about stuff, and when my dad told me I'm wrong, instead of accepting it I just clinged to the most incredulous lines of argument. Seriously stupid shit like "maybe he actually likes being hit".

I don't know what to say, but this is really the reason I show absolutely zero respect towards these people.

Why do you think I occasionally talk normally to people here and then just go back to insults and attacks after a week or so? Because despite Volty's lucid and calm explanations, despite his concessions (even when they were right in the first place), despite his unassailable facts, the white knights don't budge a single inch. Whenever you try communicating with white knights seriously, whenever you try engaging with them on good faith, you'll just witness the most pathetic defenses of the game. If Square Enix physically hit someone today, the white knights will defend it by saying "maybe he likes getting hit" like an 8-year-old child. You can write an insightful critique and they'll just respond with "I like that" or "I see no issue".

There are saints who can persist in explaining things to 8-year-old children but I'm not one of them. These white knights either do not have the mental capacity or the desire to ever engage with you in good faith in the first place. These last few pages have proven as much.





I have absolutely zero qualms in making you white knights outraged. You do this to reasonable people. I saw through it a long time ago so I never bothered to be reasonable to you.

---

Big difference between being reasonable and throwing insults. You can choose to not be reasonable yet avoid insults. You just use this as a reason to justify being an ass to others when all it amounts to is a difference of opinion.
Yall can't handle that. The word hater is rarely seen around here yet bootlicker, whiteknight etc. Is often used/seen. Interesting if were to believe theres that many "white knights" around here as many of you claim. It's very clear regardless of reason that one side of this fence is very intolerable of the other. Even holding a neutral stance such as (don't like it don't buy it), is not good enough for you guys. Everyone must feel the same as you or were gonna get insulted. You talk about being childish yet isn't hurling insults for a difference of opinion just that? Childish? Are we not adults here that understand people are different, ideas are different, experiences are different?

If folks have such an issue with the shop I encourage you guys to leave others to their own devices n band together. Let SE know yall have an issue with how this is being done. Spread the word of what you're doing as far as you can and try to push back. If it doesn't work then you have your answer and it's time to move on, simple. End of the day you don't get to decide what someone does with their hard earned money and unless they're destroying their own lives or someone elses I can't call said person dumb for spending it how they want.

LOL. ESO's cash shop IS the bottom. RNG Loot Boxes, items they bundle for $80 that you can only get by buying a bundle of loot boxes....$100+ USD player houses. Tons of FOMO and things that don't return for YEARS.

Not a fan of $40 mounts here but ESO is a whole other level of bad.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I may be a bit of a hypocrite since I did buy stuff from the mog station, yet I still dont really like how that shop is getting more and more stuff.
In the past the cash shop was only meant for old event items (instead of just giving them for free with the new events like they did sometimes at the beginning...) and yet here we are, with more and more exclusive, expensive stuff.

The veteran reward system ended and yet instead of letting us exchange mounts of existing bosses with the new systems (the certificates) we barely get anything there while the cash shops gets a lot of updates.

Maybe a bit more balance would be nice. Add different colored versions of the same mount to the different systems. Or give us the chance to earn it ingame but it would be a big grind while you can also buy it online if you dont want to grind for it.

Its sad that we now live in a world where the Diablo IV ingame shop is considered as okay because it could be worse (for a games that costs 70€+). How far will this go until its even too much for most of us? It all started small and even in the past people where like "dont be negative, its only old stuff" and now we get ingame bosses in there...

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I'm the same. I've bought a mount, one part of an outfit and a couple of the old Christmas outfits, but I'll always argue for less importance on out of game purchases like the cash shop and retainers. Hypocritical of me? For sure, but humans are rarely completely consistent.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

The wow Shop has currently:[list of stuff]

The ffxiv shop has:[list of stuff]

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Honest question – how do those numbers compare to each game's amount of in-game gear, regardless of your personal opinion of its quality? Does WoW have proportionately less items to match proportionately less cash shop? Or is the shop perhaps making more money from selling tokens so less inclined to put work into making things to sell?

I haven't played WoW and do not have an opinion on it.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

In this case, please tell me which ingame item and mount have the same quality as to those in the shop

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Glamour-wise the majority of items that I use regularly are from the game, not from Mog Station.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Honest question – how do those numbers compare to each game's amount of in-game gear, regardless of your personal opinion of its quality? Does WoW have proportionately less items to match proportionately less cash shop? Or is the shop perhaps making more money from selling tokens so less inclined to put work into making things to sell?

I haven't played WoW and do not have an opinion on it.




Glamour-wise the majority of items that I use regularly are from the game, not from Mog Station.

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WoW has more mounts, pets and gear pieces ingame than FF14 easily. Like WoW has around 900 mounts or something right now. And while there are alot of recolours, its not like FF14 doesnt have its fair share of them.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Honest question – how do those numbers compare to each game's amount of in-game gear, regardless of your personal opinion of its quality? Does WoW have proportionately less items to match proportionately less cash shop? Or is the shop perhaps making more money from selling tokens so less inclined to put work into making things to sell?

I haven't played WoW and do not have an opinion on it.

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lol dont look it up you will cry lol

If you'll buy it they'll list it. Ask anyone who works in costumer service your complaints mean nothing so long as they get paid.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

But still, am I missing something here or are we really saying that ffxiv cash shop is actually better? Because I don't think I've seen a f2p shop loaded with this much stuff.

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GW2 has butttttloads of stuff in their real-money shop. Like, the vast majority of their minions and skins come from there. (Assuming if you meant “f2p” as in no subscription)

If you are talking purely f2p, Genshin has a whoooole nutty level of ridiculous in its gacha system. Or Fortnite if we are going outside of rpgs.

I bought it, its ugly.
dont realy care.
will buy the next one as well.

In-Lore, In-Game mounts should ALWAYS be ingame obtainable.
Cash shop mounts can be recolours or cross-franchise mounts.

This is the root of the problem with Sleipnir, Cruise Chaser and now the Shadowkeeper.


But also, there is an ethical issue: microtransactions are always bad, moraly and ethically bad. That bad gets normalized doesn't make it right. Being well adjusted to a sick society is indeed, bad.
So is timegated content (PvP mounts/achievements/collectables, seasonal event titles, achivements, the firmament, one-time cross events).

The reasoning and behavior of microntransactions defenders are no diferent from drug addicts

Those things are actually predatory on neurodivergent people, there is no reasonable or ethical excuse to defend a cash shop, much less in a subscription based access game.

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

Those things are actually predatory on neurodivergent people, there is no reasonable or ethical excuse to defend a cash shop, much less in a subscription based access game.

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This has nothing to do with neurodiverse people as a whole.

If anything it preys on mount collectors, but there are any number of reasons for people to be into that.

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

Those things are actually predatory on neurodivergent people, there is no reasonable or ethical excuse to defend a cash shop, much less in a subscription based access game.

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It's not about defending a cash shop per se but acknowledging that game development have skyrocketed over the last decade and publishers aren't going to simply make less to compensate. The consumer will be eating some of those costs, be it through micro transaction or an increase in the base price of the game and/or subscription fee. The reason I'll mostly shrug off a non-intrusive cash shop is it's an entirely optional. Yes, I'll miss out on some outfits or mounts I may have wanted unless I flash my credit card but I'll also avoid paying more elsewhere. I'd much prefer a $14.99 sub fee and $59.99 for an expansion compared to say, $24.99 and $99.99. They are going to make their money somehow. It just comes down to how.

Alternatively, everything on the cash shop will just cease to exist as it's being made exclusively for a profit. So if you'd rather all those Korean glamours or mounts like Shadow Keeper or Cruise Chaser simply never be made. That's what will happen.

Now don't confuse this with me defending SE. I can say all the above while also saying the cash shop has gotten quite excessive this expansion. Likewise, I think it's a little scummy event items are tossed on the Mog Station when they were free at some point. I just opt not to buy what I don't want and indulge on what I do.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

It's not about defending a cash shop per se but acknowledging that game development have skyrocketed over the last decade and publishers aren't going to simply make less to compensate. The consumer will be eating some of those costs, be it through micro transaction or an increase in the base price of the game and/or subscription fee. The reason I'll mostly shrug off a non-intrusive cash shop is it's an entirely optional. Yes, I'll miss out on some outfits or mounts I may have wanted unless I flash my credit card but I'll also avoid paying more elsewhere. I'd much prefer a $14.99 sub fee and $59.99 for an expansion compared to say, $24.99 and $99.99. They are going to make their money somehow. It just comes down to how.

Alternatively, everything on the cash shop will just cease to exist as it's being made exclusively for a profit. So if you'd rather all those Korean glamours or mounts like Shadow Keeper or Cruise Chaser simply never be made. That's what will happen.

Now don't confuse this with me defending SE. I can say all the above while also saying the cash shop has gotten quite excessive this expansion. Likewise, I think it's a little scummy event items are tossed on the Mog Station when they were free at some point. I just opt not to buy what I don't want and indulge on what I do.

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Mao agrees. Look ats how Inflation making foods more expensives. Now apply that to game development. Gils got to comes from somewhere.