Job action combos one button

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Originally Posted by hagare

huh. Decent BLM didn't use enochian. You learn something new every day.

1222111112?
I wonder what your rotation's like xD
Because if you're being real, you will always be moving your fingers across different keys.
an example. 1>2>1>3>4>1>5>1>c1> and so on and so on.
You won't just be pressing the 3 GCD combos alone. Ever.
Eh, it'll happen anyway. Somehow or the other.
With every expansion, streamlining will happen.
It happened before, it's happening now and it'll most definitely happen again.

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... What? Seriously. What... are you even going on about here?

I just laid out my rotation if combos were condensed on Dragoon. You'd have two "sets" of True Thrust, one leading into Disembowel; the other into Vorpal Thrust and so forth. This equates to the 1222111112 key press sequence I mentioned. Whereas currently, I press 1 -> ALT2-4 > 4 > 1-4 > Alt 4. Put simply, I'm pressing four buttons and a modifier instead of the same key four times.

They still have several other buttons that can be pruned or AoE equivalents that have even less reason to be on a separate button. So no, it really won't happen. Look at Dragoon this expansion. It got one button which replaced the one they removed. Every other skill was an animation update.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

I hate the idea of single button combos.

BUT what I think could be done and would be fairly helpful to kill (some) button bloat on jobs would be an AoE stance.

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Or, just let skills that appear to cleave... cleave. If I were to pick any few random skills from our ST GCD combo actions -- Storm's Eye, Aeolian Edge, Syphon Strike, Chaos Thrust, etc. -- probably one at most would appear not to cleave nearby enemies on the way to its focus target.

At present, AoE itself is very poorly utilized in this game, especially since Shadowbringers. Our AoE skills replace, rather than complement, all else. That is wasteful.

Rather than distinct AoE combos, give us a reason to use things like those AoEs even in ST combat. Perhaps even give back physical dps a reason to have a generic resource gauge (MP now) and have those skills instead function as nukes and utility (a "full AoE" that chains from prior, smaller-scale damage being just one such form of that utility, alongside reach, range, armor break, etc.).

Imagine Doom Spike, for instance, being able to set-distance dash-cleave, at decreasing damage to each further enemy struck (as to tunable as not be too costly for the occasional escape through the boss even while still having significant AoE value).
Imagine Sonic Thrust being a sort of nuke skill charged by previous among DRG's faster/flurry-esque hits, or Coerthan Tempest actually having something to do with its 'spirit dragon' animations.

Those would then offer something of value in any setting atop being far more fun in general. Suddenly we far more meaningful GCD options, greater kit depth, and no waste. Yes, that doesn't make room for throwing in more fire-and-forget CDs or shallow AoE | ST oGCD spender choices, but is that even a negative?

From this week's interview:

- For example, for jobs that are difficult on controller, the number of buttons will be reduced via new settings for action substitutes.

I really wondered if that meant more button consolidation like Draw + Play being one button, or some of the 1-2-3 combos being consolidated like PVP's... but I thought the wording "settings" was just some rough translation, and someone familiar with the language pointed that it really meant settings.

The only thing I can think of this is if they made this consolidation an optional settings feature... Which tbh it would be interesting, as people claiming that button consolidation would dumb down things could keep as it is currently.

I think button bloat is just artificial difficulty. As a controller user, I'm excited to see what they have in store.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

... What? Seriously. What... are you even going on about here?

I just laid out my rotation if combos were condensed on Dragoon. You'd have two "sets" of True Thrust, one leading into Disembowel; the other into Vorpal Thrust and so forth. This equates to the 1222111112 key press sequence I mentioned. Whereas currently, I press 1 -> ALT2-4 > 4 > 1-4 > Alt 4. Put simply, I'm pressing four buttons and a modifier instead of the same key four times.

They still have several other buttons that can be pruned or AoE equivalents that have even less reason to be on a separate button. So no, it really won't happen. Look at Dragoon this expansion. It got one button which replaced the one they removed. Every other skill was an animation update.

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heh. Kaiten

I beg, please no.

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Originally Posted by Demetri_Delethorn

I think button bloat is just artificial difficulty. As a controller user, I'm excited to see what they have in store.

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As a controller user, I prefer interesting jobs with actual thought needed to master rather than jobs being dumbed down just for the sake of it.

I come from a game where multiple skills have a chain skill followed right after (Aion). If they want to decrease button bloat, that's one way to do it, but also gives room for more skills to be implemented, otherwise looking at the direction they're going on now, gonna feel like skills will be obtainable every 10-15 levels going from 7.0 forward. I think adding chain reaction like in PvP mode is a better solution, rather than removing skills altogether.

It's adorable that you guys think they're actually going to add something to replace the 1-2-3 when they merge the combos, because if they made this change they would merge the combos and replace the missing buttons with nothing, like they always do.

One of the things that it's talked about with regards to adding more skills to Healer Dps kits is the addition of 1-2-3 combos.

And it's not a well recieved idea, for the same reason consolidated unbranching 1-2-3 combos wouldn't really change how DPS classes are played. You just still hit one key after the other. In terms of game mechanics there is absolutely no change. In terms of manual output of commands it takes a smidgeon of effort from the part of the player to keep track of which part of the combo they are in, but other-wise there isn't any meaningfull decision making or strategy in it.

That's why most healers reject the 1-2-3 combo idea as a way to make their DPS kits more interesting. It's because it ultimately changes nothing, being consolidated or otherwise.

We had a good balance of healer DPS kits in Stormblood. SCH and WHM had a nuke, an instant dot and a casted dot. The two dots had different durations so this created a more interesting dynamic where you were making sure you could keep both your dots running.

For WHM, if memory serves, the casted dot was 24s and the instant was 18s, so you were actually doing things other than nuke spamming for 30s solid. The casted dot and old 2.5s cast times also meant you didn't have literally infinite weave windows and you actually had to think meaningfully about movement.

We didn't need 1-2-3 combos for fun healer DPS and we weren't neutered to 1 nuke with an instant dot every 30s. Astro was fine, because their card management was significantly more involved and requires augmenting cards, storing them for later, or redrawing them.

Anyway, all of this is gone, and the people the change was catered to didn't even care, because they were never going to DPS as a healer. All the healers are now a shell of their former selves and the other jobs are just hoping they get to survive till 8.0 before it's their turn.

What a waste.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

Goodness no. That'd be awful especially when lots of people feel like their entire toolkit has no need to be utilized currently

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This literally describes all healer jobs