Keep NFT out of FF14

We need to start take action against the scams that promoting this nft BS. If we don't we get hit by it later

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

We need to start take action against the scams that promoting this nft BS. If we don't we get hit by it later

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Sounds exactly like the people that called the internet a scam back in the day. Don't be afraid of tech.

Sorry guys, it is with a heavy heart to announce today....that the FFXIV X Richard Karn NFT crossover has been cancelled.

I know, I know. I'm heartbroken too, but now is the time for us to come together and look to the future.

https://www.celebwoods.com/wp-conten...ry-274x300.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

Sounds exactly like the people that called the internet a scam back in the day. Don't be afraid of tech.

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It’s not tech. It’s just artificial money connected with scams. I love how they market it with the “you own it, but it can be copied, but you own it!”

Psh load of complete crap. Give it a few years and it’ll be something else being hyped up.

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

Sounds exactly like the people that called the internet a scam back in the day. Don't be afraid of tech.

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Really that is your response? That's like saying the people who called the atom bomb to be a bad idea were cowards.

Nonetheless. It's not the tech itself that has people worried. It is the application. And so far despite the bad pr blockchain has NO ONE! who tried/is trying to force that tech into a genre it has no business being in showed any interesting approach of how the tech could be utilized besides introducing a new form of microtransaction.


As of right now NFTs have no place in gaming. People who want to interact with NFTs and cryptocurrency have plenty of avenues to do so outside of the gaming space. Gaming is not enriched by giving people a more shady form to spend money on something 95% of the gaming audience doesn't understand.
And that non understanding of the NFTs is by design. Heck I think the people pushing for it also have barely any grasp on the whole system. They just smell a new revenue stream. If the people who push for NFTs in games would actually want the system to be understandable by all you wouldn't have 1 minute videos about and pr speakers who promise
a more EXCITING way to experience games while also throwing around every possible buzzword under the sun. You'd have them release a 10 minute video actually detailing everything. To inform the uninformed.

It's meant to be obtuse. Like almost every damn gacha game under the sun where you have to convert your money into 5 different fake currencies to spend on games of chance in order to make it more difficult to keep track on how much money you're actually spending.

If this was a push for more interesting experiences in games enabled by a new tech you'd have them show off new novel ways of interacting with games. Spending money is not new.

Just adding my voice against the idea of NFTs in general and in FF14 in particular. Keep this scam out of the game.

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

You mention Pyramid scheme here but I think you mean a Ponzi scheme as a Ponzi scheme deals in investments. Regardless, NFT's do not qualify as either scheme

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NFTs are multi-level marketing for tech bros. Your Avon product is a mention of ownership on a blockchain for a cartoon ape picture.

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

Sounds exactly like the people that called the internet a scam back in the day. Don't be afraid of tech.

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I am an opto electronics programmer fear 9f tech is the last thing I have. NFT as tech is trash for morons. The problem is not nft in it self but how people make cash if it. You have a circle if people you know. You sell to one another a gif of a dog. Each time you add 100 dollar. At some point you sell to some one out if this circle for 10k +. He think he can sell for more onlly to find no one buy it even for 1 dollar. That's the scam and people can get to jail for it and in the past did. So stop promoting this scam if you don't want people to see you as a scam of the world.

By the way just to add. You do not become the owner of the original art but of the nft.onlly if the nft clearly sell you the copy right you have the original.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

I am an opto electronics programmer fear 9f tech is the last thing I have. NFT as tech is trash for morons. The problem is not nft in it self but how people make cash if it. You have a circle if people you know. You sell to one another a gif of a dog. Each time you add 100 dollar. At some point you sell to some one out if this circle for 10k +. He think he can sell for more onlly to find no one buy it even for 1 dollar. That's the scam and people can get to jail for it and in the past did. So stop promoting this scam if you don't want people to see you as a scam of the world.

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You have just described a typical market. This is how a market works in any trade. Making profit is not a scam. When people trade an item they attempt to make a profit in doing so. it is up to the market if someone accepts the trade for the higher value. It's shocking really how people think that someone trying to not sell at a loss is somehow a scam. A scam requires fraudulent activity. It's hard to converse on this subject when the basics can't be established.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

NFTs are multi-level marketing for tech bros. Your Avon product is a mention of ownership on a blockchain for a cartoon ape picture.

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Does it being a picture of an ape de-legitimize it? Digital art is digital art. If you don't see it's artistic merit that does not mean that someone else does not. Another case of the :' If I don't like it then it's a scam argument'.

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Originally Posted by Miiu

Really that is your response? That's like saying the people who called the atom bomb to be a bad idea were cowards.

Nonetheless. It's not the tech itself that has people worried. It is the application. And so far despite the bad pr blockchain has NO ONE! who tried/is trying to force that tech into a genre it has no business being in showed any interesting approach of how the tech could be utilized besides introducing a new form of microtransaction.


As of right now NFTs have no place in gaming. People who want to interact with NFTs and cryptocurrency have plenty of avenues to do so outside of the gaming space. Gaming is not enriched by giving people a more shady form to spend money on something 95% of the gaming audience doesn't understand.
And that non understanding of the NFTs is by design. Heck I think the people pushing for it also have barely any grasp on the whole system. They just smell a new revenue stream. If the people who push for NFTs in games would actually want the system to be understandable by all you wouldn't have 1 minute videos about and pr speakers who promise
a more EXCITING way to experience games while also throwing around every possible buzzword under the sun. You'd have them release a 10 minute video actually detailing everything. To inform the uninformed.

It's meant to be obtuse. Like almost every damn gacha game under the sun where you have to convert your money into 5 different fake currencies to spend on games of chance in order to make it more difficult to keep track on how much money you're actually spending.

If this was a push for more interesting experiences in games enabled by a new tech you'd have them show off new novel ways of interacting with games. Spending money is not new.

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Your agreement that it is not the tech but the application is not carried by all. Just look at the replies I have received. Most people have it in their heads that the underlying technology is scam. I have said in my previous post that business practices should be a concern and that nobody should support shady or unjust business practices. However, this is no reason to not allow the tech in gaming. I think people think too highly of gaming companies. I hate to break it to people but every new development in gaming will be monetized. Gaming companies are not altruistic for the people entities. That does not mean that a standard of practice that is fair cannot be established nor does it mean that NFTs won't have any new gaming experiences to bring to the market. Yes, there will be gaming companies that abuse it but that should be met with it's player base not supporting their efforts monetarily.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

The problem is not nft in it self but how people make cash if it.

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I whole-heartedly agree with that, but then, there are some ways it could prove useful in FFXIV. Think of a marketplace where people could design stuff (yes, what mods are, right now) and sell it in limited amount, or inner design for housing made by someone that works with it, both of these things being NFT-able ? Then SE would only take commission when people sell their stuff in the marketplace. And yes, you can do that without NFTs, but it actually makes things easier once it's deployed, to resell NFTs, without needing cryptocurrencies in the process.

I'm not pro NFT, it's absolute garbage as is, but I know that in the architect world, for example, BIM can be NFTed, for example. Their application are far more diverse that what's being used, and MAYBE it could prove useful in FFXIV.

And above all else, if we stick to that, there is no way it would be damaging to the average player that doesn't want to indulge in that.

What I'm saying is : it probably won't matter, even if it is used. NFTs aren't bad per se, it's what cryptobros do with it that's shitty.

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

Does it being a picture of an ape de-legitimize it? Digital art is digital art. If you don't see it's artistic merit that does not mean that someone else does not. Another case of the :' If I don't like it then it's a scam argument'.

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The scam is selling NFT as an investment opportunity, using pump and dump techniques to make the buyer think that there's demand and increasing value for them.

If you're buying an NFT from an honest broker, you'll get a disclaimer like Fart Jars NFT dot com

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By purchasing an NFT fart jar, you are purchasing a unique digital asset. This is yours to own, redeem or sell on the secondary market. If you are buying as an investment, as with all investing, its value can go down as well as up. The tax treatment of your investment will depend on many factors including where in there world you live. Full House Studio have no liability for any losses and if unsure about investing in an NFT, you should seek independent financial advice. If you are buying for fun, fetish or as a super fan of Stephanie Matto, enjoy!

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

The scam is selling NFT as an investment opportunity, using pump and dump techniques to make the buyer think that there's demand and increasing value for them.

If you're buying an NFT from an honest broker, you'll get a disclaimer like Fart Jars NFT dot com

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That makes no sense. There are no pump and dump techniques to make a buyer thinker there is demand. If there is a buyer in the first place then that means there is demand. That buyer pays what he thinks is a fair price. I know people with Ape NFT's that will never sell them. They just wanted an Ape NFT. I also know people that will sell them if they increase in value. What you do with your goods after you buy them is up to you as the buyer. That disclaimer you posted can be used for any goods that you want to try to sell a later date.

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

You have just described a typical market. This is how a market works in any trade. Making profit is not a scam. When people trade an item they attempt to make a profit in doing so. it is up to the market if someone accepts the trade for the higher value. It's shocking really how people think that someone trying to not sell at a loss is somehow a scam. A scam requires fraudulent activity. It's hard to converse on this subject when the basics can't be established.

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no not when you sell a real thing. a year old car will not sell for as much as new one. or a phone.

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

That makes no sense. There are no pump and dump techniques to make a buyer thinker there is demand. If there is a buyer in the first place then that means there is demand. That buyer pays what he thinks is a fair price. I know people with Ape NFT's that will never sell them. They just wanted an Ape NFT. I also know people that will sell them if they increase in value. What you do with your goods after you buy them is up to you as the buyer. That disclaimer you posted can be used for any goods that you want to try to sell a later date.

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ok now its clear you are a scam adn need to be banned from here.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

no not when you sell a real thing. a year old car will not sell for as much as new one. or a phone.

ok now its clear you are a scam adn need to be banned from here.

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This is not correct. While most cars are depreciating assets not all are and some have increased in value over time. Just search google for 'cars with appreciating value.' Once again, the market decides the value of something

You are now calling for me to be banned for having an opinion that is different from yours? A forum is as place for debate however I just realized that you were the same person that wanted to use force against me in a previous post. This will be the last time I reply to one of your posts and suggest that you take break to calm down. I have not attacked you nor do I plan on doing so. Have a good day.

eyyyy I got your fungible token right here!

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

There are no pump and dump techniques to make a buyer thinker there is demand.

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That's literally the majority of pump and dump.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

That's literally the majority of pump and dump.

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Just to be clear. A pump an dump is a scam that requires the original holders to pump the value of something through misrepresentation and lying. This is done by promising returns in the future that the originator knows will not happen and then dumping on the next investor. That is not what is being done with NFT's. I own NFT's and have never once talked to the seller. Nobody has tried to convince me in the concept of future profits. Hype exists, as it does with any product with demand but at the end of the day it is just a digital good. If I decide to sell them later I hope I can make a profit, just like anything else. If I don't then I don't, such is life.

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

This is not correct. While most cars are depreciating assets not all are and some have increased in value over time. Just search google for 'cars with appreciating value.' Once again, the market decides the value of something

You are now calling for me to be banned for having an opinion that is different from yours? A forum is as place for debate however I just realized that you were the same person that wanted to use force against me in a previous post. This will be the last time I reply to one of your posts and suggest that you take break to calm down. I have not attacked you nor do I plan on doing so. Have a good day.

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not for any opinion you are openly promote scam. to kids as well.

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

Just to be clear. A pump an dump is a scam that requires the original holders to pump the value of something through misrepresentation and lying. This is done by promising returns in the future that the originator knows will not happen and then dumping on the next investor. That is not what is being done with NFT's. I own NFT's and have never once talked to the seller. Nobody has tried to convince me in the concept of future profits. Hype exists, as it does with any product with demand but at the end of the day it is just a digital good. If I decide to sell them later I hope I can make a profit, just like anything else. If I don't then I don't, such is life.

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that is how NFT market works

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

Just to be clear. A pump an dump is a scam that requires the original holders to pump the value of something through misrepresentation and lying. This is done by promising returns in the future that the originator knows will not happen and then dumping on the next investor. That is not what is being done with NFT's.

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That's literally what's being done with Ape NFTs.

• The pump: A group of scammers (or one scammer with sock puppets) plays hot potato with a bunch of Ape pictures they created, selling to each other, increasing the prices to make it look like they're in demand and you'd be a sucker not to buy.
• The dump: A mark buys an Ape picture, and the game of hot potato ends.

Alternative:

• The pump: "OMG my Ape NFTs were stolen, they're worth millions." "I just paid a ransom of $500,000 for my Apes, luckily I can afford it and they're worth ten times that."
• The dump: Some sucker believes you and buys an Ape

Pump and dump doesn't require direct interaction between the buyer and seller.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

That's literally what's being done with Ape NFTs.

• The pump: A group of scammers (or one scammer with sock puppets) plays hot potato with a bunch of Ape pictures they created, selling to each other, increasing the prices to make it look like they're in demand and you'd be a sucker not to buy.
• The dump: A mark buys an Ape picture, and the game of hot potato ends.

Alternative:

• The pump: "OMG my Ape NFTs were stolen, they're worth millions." "I just paid a ransom of $500,000 for my Apes, luckily I can afford it and they're worth ten times that."
• The dump: Some sucker believes you and buys an Ape

Pump and dump doesn't require direct interaction between the buyer and seller.

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A pump and dump doesn't require direct interaction, this is true. It does require false/misleading information to be given to the buyer in order to facilitate the pump. That is the key to the pump and dump.

An actual example of a pump and dump would be if a scammer created a company and inflated their numbers and worked behind the scenes to make their company look better than it was and then dumped out of the company and took off with the profits.

Your example would be quite difficult to do with NFT's because I can see who created them and where they have been transferred to on chain. Now a person could go through the effort of creating sockpuppet accounts but so what? I as the buyer have to decide if the NFT is worth the asking price. If I decide that it is I then have to decide If I want to sell it or not. There is always an understanding that you can loose money on the sale of a good. I purchased and Ape NFT an received an Ape NFT. It is interesting that people think that risk is a scam. It is not. It is a built in part of any market and it's up to a buyer to asses the risk of purchase if their goal is to flip it for profit at a later date.

As to your alternative scenario:
This is up to the buyer to do their due diligence. Did they check the purchase history? Did they asses the value for themselves? Personal responsibility is a thing in any market. There will always be people trying to scam you in any market and you must always do your due diligence to avoid it.

Apologies, but I'm gonna share this in the other two NFT threads too cuz I think this is a brilliant idea and wanna signal boost it.


Someone in my FC just had a brilliant idea.

Since it's unclear how much the devs (let alone their President) look to the forums for feedback, We should tweet at SQEX directly telling them what we think of NFTs.
I made a twitter account for some FF14 contest a few years back, I'll just use that one.

There have been a lot of people voicing their distain for that New Years letter, and while it's cathartic to voice our concerns and vent here on the forums, it's probably more productive to send those concerns to SQEX directly.

SQEX twitter
https://twitter.com/SquareEnix

And it looks like the President doesn't have their own Twitter account, but people are tagging them as both
#YosukeMatsuda
#Yosuke_Matsuda

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Originally Posted by DefeatedYMIR

Yoshi-P please don't let SE force you to put NFT in FF. My faith is in you.

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He'll cry on stream, saying why it must be done, and you'd probably accept it.

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

He'll cry on stream, saying why it must be done, and you'd probably accept it.

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Sadly to much of the players buy in to such cheap manipulations.

Guys.

NFTs are something a game has to be designed around from the bottom up.

FFXIV isn't going to incorporate them.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

Guys.

NFTs are something a game has to be designed around from the bottom up.

FFXIV isn't going to incorporate them.

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Square-Enix profits from XIV whether NFTs are built into the game directly or not. It's not a case of being able to have your cake and eat it too.

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

He'll cry on stream

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this phenomena, lol.

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Originally Posted by Puksi

Square-Enix profits from XIV whether NFTs are built into the game directly or not. It's not a case of being able to have your cake and eat it too.

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Are you asking one of the biggest video game producers ever that produces pretty much a new game daily to not build games around concepts, simply to please a part of the community of one of their games ? I'm... impressed.

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Originally Posted by Mysticp

That makes no sense. There are no pump and dump techniques to make a buyer thinker there is demand.

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Yes tell that to the private whatsapp groups that coordinate pump and dumps on crypto.

They can't add NFT to any Final Fantasy game, unless they make their own game launcher for all of them.

Steam has already made it clear that NFT are not welcome and will remove games that involve them.. seeing as a copy of all current Final Fantasy games are on Steam they will be risking having to refund everyone whose bought a FF game, besides that FF14 is on Steam with a chunk of players who would no longer have the game an throw a fit needing to rebuy and movie their accounts over

I expect SE doing NFT's will be on new products rather than existing ones...at least I hope is the case, but I figure the logistics of doing it with FFXIV would be problematic for reasons people have already listed.

Hopefully it just means we avoid purchasing whatever games they have that use NFT's. Given NFT's are so divisive, if they find a way then I suspect there is the perceived risk of losing too many players over it where the effort would probably be better placed in adding new stuff to the Mogstation. I suspect the least risky approach is to do it for entirely new products, because they're not technically losing customers and people are more likely to just boycott those games rather than the company itself. EG. when I speak with my wallet, unless the company has done something especially bad then it speaks about the product and not the company and if enough people do it, sale trends should express where kind of decisions impact it. I hope with the NFT's that this is what happens.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

Guys.

NFTs are something a game has to be designed around from the bottom up.

FFXIV isn't going to incorporate them.

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Not at all . It's the same as to add a cash shop later.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

They can't add NFT to any Final Fantasy game, unless they make their own game launcher for all of them.

Steam has already made it clear that NFT are not welcome and will remove games that involve them.. seeing as a copy of all current Final Fantasy games are on Steam they will be risking having to refund everyone whose bought a FF game, besides that FF14 is on Steam with a chunk of players who would no longer have the game an throw a fit needing to rebuy and movie their accounts over

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You can't sell them on steam. What it means is steam don't want to be a front for scam. In game you can as it be made by the mog station,a separate place.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

Are you asking one of the biggest video game producers ever that produces pretty much a new game daily to not build games around concepts, simply to please a part of the community of one of their games ? I'm... impressed.

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I'm asking them to not actively harm the planet with their greed as if the Shinra Electric Power Company broke the fourth wall. I'm asking them to make games for players who play to have fun, air quotes unnecessary, because by the president's own words they are the majority of the players of their games. I'm asking them to remember all their failed attempts to milk the consumer past the base price of their games and the reputation it's earned them.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

Guys.

NFTs are something a game has to be designed around from the bottom up.

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Thats not exactly true. Sure, the game never was designed with NFTs in mind -- but they sure as hell can develop ways to incorporate it into the game whether through the store or Lodestone.

I haven't seen any evidence that FF14 or the next FF MMORPG would be using NFTs. The majority of their income comes from the mobile market so it is likely what they are planning to focus on. Yoshi P is pretty resolved with his decision on how the game makes money and how it rallies for more funds (Mogstation). I highly doubt they would include NFTs into it, it makes no sense and I can't think of any way they can make this game benefit from it. This is how you would kill a game, by turning it into work but this game is designed to be played as a hobby, not work. It's been said many times in interviews that there are no daily login rewards, no requirements to login every day and no pressure to keep-up at a moment's notice because the game is designed specifically for people to enjoy themselves and not feel like it's work. NFTs would defeat this image and Yoshi P is very likely to be heading the next FF MMORPG whenever they decide to start work on that; bringing with him this philosophy. That doesn't mean SE won't intervene but SE should know by now that the team behind FF14 2.0 and beyond knows how to make a good player experience.

Problem is, they might eventually scrap that idea. But they will try again. Especially when NFT finds social acceptance.

That's the nature of corporations. They always try to squeeze that pocket tighter even when not necessary. It's on us wether or not we accept their greedy attempts or refuse them.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Hopefully it just means we avoid purchasing whatever games they have that use NFT's.

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Many of us don't just wanna keep FF14 safe from NFT's, we don't wanna see SQEX use the destructive little things at all!

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I suspect the least risky approach is to do it for entirely new products, because they're not technically losing customers and people are more likely to just boycott those games rather than the company itself.

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They'd def be losing me.
I'd be turning my back on the company as a whole just like I have with all the others that foolishly embraced NFT's.
It doesn't matter if I play Game A, and they're only ballooning their carbon footprint in the process of making Game B, the pollution is still a horrible and avoidable problem and I can't support a company that would act that way.