i still wanna talk to zodiark just if nothing else to hear both sides of this story cuz dunno about any1 else hearing only 1 side to me isnt enough any1 else tink that or that just me?
Revelations from the Shadowbringers E3 Trailer
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06-17-2019, 03:16 PMKusanagi7
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06-17-2019, 03:50 PMAlleoBut didnt he say that Zodiark is a primal too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
We do see in the scenes that something is burning and afterwards we see people pray before something. Maybe something bad happened and with the prayer to some higher beings the first primal arrived. We see that everyone also looks the same. The next scene shows a divide in that with some wearing black, the other white and we suddenly have two gods.
This is all speculation right now but for me at least it feels that the two different beliefs just split the primal/god into two. The one true god could just be the Ascians believing that their side of belief is the right one. -
06-17-2019, 11:34 PMLauront
Assuming that the sequence is from left to right, I can see why they would believe what they do if Zodiark did come first. Say the planet formed, however it did, with him arising first and foremost as the Primal consciousness with in it... then having another Primal come up and take some of the aether that was up until that point, all his, could easily result in a scenario where he felt the desire to evict it and reclaim what was his.
It's not really much different to some Primal like Ifrit coming along, draining all the aether for itself, and then expecting Hydaelyn to just "get along" with it. You can say her motives are "benign", and that excuses it, but in the end that just means her interests and those of the beings who benefited from her taking control coincide.
Does it change our sentiments to the Rejoining? Well, no, not really, but it does render it into more of a fight for dominance than anything else, with the Ascians taking the view that the pre-eminence of their god justifies them in banishing anything that came after it and Hydaelyn wanting to preserve the status quo which has arisen since he was banished.
The potential wrinkle in all this is: What consequence is there to there just being one Primal of this kind? Could be, the answer is none, but if it messes up the balance between light and dark (even if only due to the existence of man) to the point that the world would eventually be devoured by floods, it may be an unstable state of affairs. All we have to go off now is that the split into the Reflections is itself apparently an unstable state of affairs. Thus we may have to enact the rejoining by other means, and join the two together, but given their resentment for one another, it may even be re-summoned versions.
I think this whole revelation also allows us some insight into why Varis may have given the speech in the tent. Although a lot of it sounds like words you would expect by an Ascian, and I imagine some of it was embellished to give them the impression he was complying, given that both the gods are Primals and his hatred of these beings, methinks he's simply realised it's not the run of the mill Primals the Empire has been attempting to stamp out which are the issue, but the Primal residing in the star's very heart - and that man would forevermore be subject to their whims for as long as they exist, as well as those of their servants. So, you get rid of one by assisting the Ascians with the Rejoining, and then rid of the other afterwards, and them as well in the process. I still would not rule out possession by Emet-Selch, however I think there's enough to go off here to explain why Varis has changed his tack a bit without recourse to such a plot point, even though it remains possible.
Where all this might go awry is Zenos. I'm not as yet convinced that he's had a genuine change of heart - and the similarities between his lines at the end of 4.56 and Sephiroth's in the FF7R are potentially being used to simply drive through his own comparisons to the latter, highly popular antagonist. So it could end up meaning he wrests control over the Empire from his father, so it collapses in its current form, but sees an opportunity to do what he did with Shinryu to Zodiark. Which in turn would make him a valuable asset to the Ascians and also re-purpose the Empire for his own ends. Again, the takeover of Zodiark plot turn is one which one of the Ascian Overlords themselves may be planning, but there is precedent with Zenos doing this, and it would at least tie in with the Empire-as-we-know-it ending in 5.0... without really ceasing to be a threat in later expansions, as well as opening up the prospect of freeing Garlemald later on. The fact that the Zodiark/Hydaelyn arcs still have steam in them mean they're going to go on for another expansion at least, anyway. He may then even be given back his body, with Elidibus taking Varis's, or go on to possess his father's. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Otherwise I'm guessing it'll be something along the lines of a flood coming to the Source, but that may be a little too soon after we deal with one on the First.
So I, too, wait with bated breath.
I fully expect and hope for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusanagi7
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06-18-2019, 02:20 AMLineageRazorThis... is an excellent point, and I don't think it was followed up on in later posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusanagi7
In two of the three of Anonymoose's examples, Elidibus is said to worship the "one true god", one of those times form his very lips. However, in NONE of the examples does Elidibus himself claim that One True God to be Zodiark. (As for the Encyclopedia entry, it's been stated before that the knowledge there is as Eorzeans know it, and may not necessarily be the whole truth.)
Is there ANY dialogue from Elidibus in which he states that Zodiark is the god he worships? If not, here's a possibility to chew on...
Elidibus could be in a third camp, the Hydaeark camp. He works with the black-robe Asicans, because their goals will lead to HIS goal - the rejoining of the two gods into one. The Black robes, on the other hand, believe that they can arrange things so that the result of the Rejoining will be either one merged god with Zodiark firmly at the helm, or Zodiark solo with Hydaelyn destroyed. Elidibus allows them to believe that this is a possibility, but knows better, much like Varis believes (or pretends to believe) in the emergence of the superior race while the Ascians know better. Either that, or when the Black robes are on the cusp of victory, he'll snatch it away from them to ensure that HIS one true god is reborn, rather than theirs.
In short, he's playing the Ascians, just like he plays us. The snake. XD
I really am curious as to whether he's ever claimed to follow Zodiark specifically - and note that plotting with other Ascians to resurrect Zodiark specifically is not enough, since resurrecting Zodiark may be a necessary step in resurrecting Hydaeark. If it came from Elidibus's own mouth that Zodiark is the god he follows, that'd be good enough for me, given that, as folks have mentioned, Elidibus never seems to lie outright. -
06-18-2019, 04:24 AMAnonymoose
For what it's worth, he mentions Zodiark by name in other languages on occasion - though he could be lying ... or double-speaking by referring to their (the black-robes') mission as "ours" because it's part of his larger ambition. (/stirringthepot)
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Originally Posted by Elidibus
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Originally Posted by Elidibus
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Originally Posted by Elidibus
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06-18-2019, 04:57 AMQT_Melon
I'm thinking there's actually TWO (major - but not discounting there actually may be more) versions of Zodiark and both are actually primals.
From what it looks like is that this is a battle of whose "thoughtform" is the rightform.
Kind of what goes on in a lot of religious philosophies vs the science of what we know.
Science - as in THEIR science, not THE science sees that the cosmos was event that people see as became darkness, then later gave birth to stars.
Mankind (we'll just use that term for now) of course wants to explain why we have what we have. Therefore we created the primals from way back. Those primals felt their purpose - neither really "good or bad" just following the concepts of how we explain the universe.
Each side thinking their telling of events are the correct one, but the truth may be somewhere in all that mess.
I don't think it changes the "status quo" so much just challenges ideas of beliefs maybe - but nothing like "Well we gotta become dark" more like our nature to worship or create ideas from not understanding our beginnings may be why we have so much strife. :P -
06-18-2019, 08:53 PMAlleoIf he really is the first one (with two halos) then that means that something must have happened to turn that many people away from him that they summoned Hydaelyn and that he lost his power thus only has one halo. And then something must have happened to make even more people believe in the mother crystal because she seemingly got two later and was able to banish him. It could of course be that the Ascians and Zodiark were the good ones and the people that turned away from them were in the wrong..but as far as we know the primal shows the behaviour of those that summoned them, so if that is the case for them too, then wouldnt Hydaelyn be the power hungry one? But right now she never has shown any of that. She mostly lets us do our own thing and is even trying to protect us. At the same time the Ascians are shown constantly as bad guys. Of course it could be that for them the end result of rejoining the shards and defeating Hydaelyn is more important than people but they are shown to enjoy the chaos and death they cause. That are not sign of good guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauront
About Varis: Isnt it kind of funny that his seemingly perfect race that existed before the split also just turned to higher beings? In the end they are not that much better than the rest of the races and seemingly still needed "gods" in their life.