Gender Locks Have Revealed the Worst in Players.

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Originally Posted by iDovahBear

That people should be expected to care about any and every class is reaching, I believe.

By now most people know what class they want to play, already have it at 70 and their first priority come ShB will be to level 70>80.

People more interested in Dancers/Gunbreaker (and perhaps interested in avoiding overcrowded 70+ leveling areas) will be the minority* going against the grain.

(As a former WoW player some years ago, that is my take on how launch will go. I haven't been around for a FFXIV expansion launch to date.)

That being said, people are placing their stakes where their interests lie. Don't presume to tell others what they should care about, or degrade their opinion. It's beyond petty, and it's gas lighting to boot.

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This isn't WoW where you make a brand new character from scratch when you get a new class.

A new class adds lore, adds quests, story, different gameplay options, new party compositions, new characters and adds a brand new market for crafters to create items for.

A new race/gender adds...uhm...it fills the world's races out I guess?

A new class, whether you like it or not, whether you are playing it or not affects you in many ways whether you notice them or not.

Someone playing as a male or female viera adds absolutely nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Doesn't affect your raid composition, whether you craft items for that race, story, etc.

If your interests lie solely in the races available in this game, you weren't going to last long anyway since this game, although doesn't have the same weight as WoW, contains a huge amount of content to go through and for some reason the races/genders available is what happened to be the straw that broke the camel's back for some people. Now that is petty.

It's core gameplay in the design sense of the word -- it's quite literally the first choice players are met with when they start the game, and everything you do in the game involves your character's avatar.

It spans every other aspect of the game, therefore it's core. Plus, characterization is always primary feature of any MMO. Characterization sets the tone of the story, also. Playing the MSQ as a Lala has a much different (and funnier) vibe than playing the MSQ as a Hyur. It's important.

Cosmetic add-ons can be a subset of the character, but picking your character is core, and the dismissive usage of the term cosmetics is improper in this context.

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Originally Posted by niteypants

It's core gameplay in the design sense of the word -- it's quite literally the first choice players are met with when they start the game, and everything you do in the game involves your character's avatar.

It spans every other aspect of the game, therefore it's core. Plus, characterization is always primary feature of any MMO. Characterization sets the tone of the story, also. Playing the MSQ as a Lala has a much different (and funnier) vibe than playing the MSQ as a Hyur. It's important.

Cosmetic add-ons can be a subset of the character, but picking your character is core, and the dismissive usage of the term cosmetics is improper in this context.

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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then-- it's completely valid for you to have these beliefs, I just personally don't share them in terms of regarding them as core gameplay. It's still important to me, though. Just on a different level, I suppose.

Edit: I do share the sentiment that it's improper to disregard them as purely cosmetic, though.

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

Someone playing as a male or female viera adds absolutely nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Doesn't affect your raid composition, whether you craft items for that race, story, etc.

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i think that's wrong imo a lot of people do make alts just to RP and play the story differently around said race might not be a major change to you but it is for someone else.
Also two of your points dont make much sense since you mention classes add lore and characters but a male viera or female hrothgar wouldn't?

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Originally Posted by niteypants

It's core gameplay in the design sense of the word -- it's quite literally the first choice players are met with when they start the game, and everything you do in the game involves your character's avatar.

It spans every other aspect of the game, therefore it's core. Plus, characterization is always primary feature of any MMO. Characterization sets the tone of the story, also. Playing the MSQ as a Lala has a much different (and funnier) vibe than playing the MSQ as a Hyur. It's important.

Cosmetic add-ons can be a subset of the character, but picking your character is core, and the dismissive usage of the term cosmetics is improper in this context.

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Picking your character is core gameplay in a design sense, since that's what you meant, but customizing it is not. You can easily skip that and go by the default option given, which makes it completely optional if you want to change any of the settings there.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Picking your character is core gameplay in a design sense, since that's what you meant, but customizing it is not. You can easily skip that and go by the default option given, which makes it completely optional if you want to change any of the settings there.

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Oh wowee, you can skip picking your gender?

Let me know when you become the missing Unpicked Gender, I'd love to see it.

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Originally Posted by niteypants

Oh wowee, you can skip picking your gender?

Let me know when you become the missing Unpicked Gender, I'd love to see it.

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Picking is a core gameplay as I stated above. But customizing it is optional. If you PICKED the default option, you'll get a gladiator male midlander Hyur.

https://memeworld.funnyjunk.com/thum...b0016e56ec.gif

I do not have my heart set on playing a Viera or a Hrothgar of either gender, but I'll tell you one thing.

It's utterly unacceptable that SE is being allowed to skate by the community with incomplete crap. They should be held to higher standards than this, regardless of whether you wanted to play a Viera or a Hrothgar.

Cutting corners and launching half-finished features are why the Realm had to be Reborn in the first place. Why are we, collectively, as a community, letting them get away with this? Why are we falling down on our end of the responsibility of keeping the developers in check?

Put aside your own personal politics and biases long enough to see that we're all being screwed.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I do not have my heart set on playing a Viera or a Hrothgar of either gender, but I'll tell you one thing.

It's utterly unacceptable that SE is being allowed to skate by the community with incomplete crap. They should be held to higher standards than this, regardless of whether you wanted to play a Viera or a Hrothgar.

Cutting corners and launching half-finished features are why the Realm had to be Reborn in the first place. Why are we, collectively, as a community, letting them get away with this? Why are we falling down on our end of the responsibility of keeping the developers in check?

Put aside your own personal politics and biases long enough to see that we're all being screwed.

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I don't consider this to be a big enough slight that I'd drop my sub over it. Besides that I'm not aware of any other way to not "let them get away with this."

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I do not have my heart set on playing a Viera or a Hrothgar of either gender, but I'll tell you one thing.

It's utterly unacceptable that SE is being allowed to skate by the community with incomplete crap. They should be held to higher standards than this, regardless of whether you wanted to play a Viera or a Hrothgar.

Cutting corners and launching half-finished features are why the Realm had to be Reborn in the first place. Why are we, collectively, as a community, letting them get away with this? Why are we falling down on our end of the responsibility of keeping the developers in check?

Put aside your own personal politics and biases long enough to see that we're all being screwed.

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And what if I told you... It was never promised? they were adding vierra but nowhere did they ever commit to it being both genders.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I do not have my heart set on playing a Viera or a Hrothgar of either gender, but I'll tell you one thing.

It's utterly unacceptable that SE is being allowed to skate by the community with incomplete crap. They should be held to higher standards than this, regardless of whether you wanted to play a Viera or a Hrothgar.

Cutting corners and launching half-finished features are why the Realm had to be Reborn in the first place. Why are we, collectively, as a community, letting them get away with this? Why are we falling down on our end of the responsibility of keeping the developers in check?

Put aside your own personal politics and biases long enough to see that we're all being screwed.

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Would you rather we got Viera of both genders, but no Hrothgar?

Can you explain why that would have been better than what we're getting to those who want to play as male Hrothgar?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Would you rather we got Viera of both genders, but no Hrothgar?

Can you explain why that would have been better than what we're getting to those who want to play as male Hrothgar?

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Hrothgar wasn't even a blip on the fanbase's radar until the glitch involving their name popped up. We were all expecting viera, and both genders was assumed to be a given since we though SE had "known better"

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Hrothgar wasn't even a blip on the fanbase's radar until the glitch involving their name popped up. We were all expecting viera.

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But people have been requesting more bestial races, and Ronso has been one of the more popular suggestions.
I know I'd be disappointed if the 'last' race we ever got wasn't a masculine one and I had to continue to choose between Wreck-it-Ralph and Lizardman.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Hrothgar wasn't even a blip on the fanbase's radar until the glitch involving their name popped up. We were all expecting viera, and both genders was assumed to be a given since we though SE had "known better"

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Not to forget our leaker friends which amuse themselves on this fest.

Tbh. Me as a customer and player can ask for unlocking the genders as much as anyone who wants more content, cosmetics, marry their retainers or whatever people wish for.

It all depends if its worth the budget and the resources and its not anyones decision but SE. If they agree feedback is large enough, the conclusion means sales for Fantasias will increase = profit.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

But people have been requesting more bestial races, and Ronso has been one of the more popular suggestions.
I know I'd be disappointed if the 'last' race we ever got wasn't a masculine one and I had to continue to choose between Wreck-it-Ralph and Lizardman.

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Now the "last" race we ever got is an incomplete corner cutted package, and the lore will suffer for it. It just might even prompt for more work and certainly left people thinking they were led on in order to try an dodge controversy and secure preorders. If this was the last race they wanted to do, this is poor way of doing it. Simply doing one of the races, preferably the more popular one being talked about consistently as wanted, would have been a better way to put a cap on things. Now? They are left with the demands for finishing the two races they half conpleted.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Now the "last" race we ever got is an incomplete corner cutted package, and the lore will suffer for it. It just might even prompt for more work and certainly left people thinking they were led on in order to try an dodge controversy and secure preorders. If this was the last racr they wanted to do, this is poor way of doing it. Simply doing one of the races, preferably the more popular one being talked about consistently as wanted, would have been better.

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The 'last' race we've got, has hope for being expanded into two complete ones.
If we had just got the one, that'd be it and we'd never see the other.
It'll be considerably easier to fill in the other genders in 6.0, than to create entire new race. Still a lot of work, but less than the alternative, and they have said they will review the feedback and consider it.

Or maybe they should've just added Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Hrothgar wasn't even a blip on the fanbase's radar until the glitch involving their name popped up. We were all expecting viera, and both genders was assumed to be a given since we though SE had "known better"

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To add to this remember Au Ra implementation in HW other than Yugiri who gave us insight they might hail from Doma and can be ninjas we knew next to nothing about her race, some people did not like how poorly integrated they were into ffxiv and yet they are implementing Hrothgar with less than that we have nothing literal nothing in game to say big burly animalistic looking spoken humanoids exist in game, it's rather baffling how bad it is.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I don't consider this to be a big enough slight that I'd drop my sub over it. Besides that I'm not aware of any other way to not "let them get away with this."

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Yoshi P's team is exceptional in the field of MMORPGs in that it has allowed the community to aid in the development process. Community feedback has always been essential to this game. It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Wijnand

And what if I told you... It was never promised? they were adding vierra but nowhere did they ever commit to it being both genders.

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Why are you telling me this? I don't care whether those races get added or not. I care about complete, high quality features, not rushed, corner cut, incomplete games that I'm paying full price for.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Would you rather we got Viera of both genders, but no Hrothgar?

Can you explain why that would have been better than what we're getting to those who want to play as male Hrothgar?

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A complete feature is better than an incomplete feature. It's better, in principle, to demand that SE give us higher quality content, because if we accept crap, the bar gets lowered and the game gets worse. It has happened in the history of every MMORPG ever. Unfinished, rushed content is what killed the original FFXIV, and it's also what killed FFXV.

Some of you may not care about male viera or female hrothgar, but you're being short sighted. Pay them for half finished crap, and one day they'll stint on something you really do want.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Yoshi P's team is exceptional in the field of MMORPGs in that it has allowed the community to aid in the development process. Community feedback has always been essential to this game. It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

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Well good for you they're already looking into feedback on this. So what's with all the "They can't be allowed to skate by" stuff?

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Well good for you they're already looking into feedback on this. So what's with all the "They can't be allowed to skate by" stuff?

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That "stuff" has to do with being told to shut up repeatedly when that feedback is being given. Believe it or not, the lack of those genders affects you too.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Hrothgar wasn't even a blip on the fanbase's radar until the glitch involving their name popped up. We were all expecting viera, and both genders was assumed to be a given since we though SE had "known better"

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That wouldn't change anything because they'd have still announced it at JP Fanfest and people would still be posting a thread daily about male Viera.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Put aside your own personal politics and biases long enough to see that we're all being screwed.

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I never intended to play female or male Viera, so that's obviously not true.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

That "stuff" has to do with being told to shut up repeatedly when that feedback is being given. Believe it or not, the lack of those genders affects you too.

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They're not the ones telling you to shut up, and they already said they're looking into feedback already. So saying they're being allowed to skate by is disingenuous as well.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I never intended to play female or male Viera, so that's obviously not true.

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It is true, because if you pay them for unfinished crap, pretty soon they'll deliver something you do want, and give it to you half baked. You get what you pay for.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

They're not the ones telling you to shut up, and they already said they're looking into feedback already. So saying they're being allowed to skate by is disingenuous as well.

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No, you don't understand. Parts of the community are telling people to shut up and not give feedback. But the whole community is negatively affected by rushed, unfinished features.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

It is true, because if you pay them for unfinished crap, pretty soon they'll deliver something you do want, and give it to you half baked. You get what you pay for.

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When it comes to that situation, I'll have something to say. As it is I am paying them for something I want and I am getting what I expected.

Players request a historically female-only race (as far as being playable), then proceed to get upset about getting said female-only race. [Insert pickachu meme here]

In all seriousness though, I can see what the devs were going for and they get points for trying. What they should've done, IMO, is announce both races at the second Fanfest, explain their reasoning for the gender exclusivity, and then show off the visuals etc. at the final one. By staggering it (and then neither confirming or debunking the possibility of male Viera at the earliest opportunity) they gave room for players to get overexcited, leading to what we have now.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

It is true, because if you pay them for unfinished crap, pretty soon they'll deliver something you do want, and give it to you half baked. You get what you pay for.

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Except it's not "unfinished", it's "spreading ressources to not please only one part of the playerbase".
With male Viera instead of male Hrothgar, those who'd like to play a beast race (Something that doesn't exist right now as opposed to already having cute animal-human characters) would have been screwed. And designing two full races would have taken ressources from something else, meaning that we would have all been screwed with less content, even those who don't care at all about changing races.

For something that, as said before, is not even content, since it has no impact at all on everything you do in this game. And for those who claim that it's important for RP, It really bugs me how you can do proper RP if you change race and/or sex every time a new flavor comes into the game. Isn't your character supposed to have a background, a family, etc ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Except it's not "unfinished", it's "spreading ressources to not please only one part of the playerbase".
With male Viera instead of male Hrothgar, those who'd like to play a beast race (Something that doesn't exist right now as opposed to already having cute animal-human characters) would have been screwed. And designing two full races would have taken ressources from something else, meaning that we would have all been screwed with less content, even those who don't care at all about changing races.

For something that, as said before, is not even content, since it has no impact at all on every you will do in this game. And for those who claim that it's important for RP, It really bugs me how you can do proper RP if you change race and/or sex every time a new flavor comes into the game. Isn't your character supposed to have a background, a family, etc ?

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I have no problem with what we got, but just before anyone snarky comes along, RPers will argue they make alts for new races.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Except it's not "unfinished"

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they cant "wear" helmets and will be working on them during ShB that sounds pretty "unfinished" to me

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

Someone playing as a male or female viera adds absolutely nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Doesn't affect your raid composition, whether you craft items for that race, story, etc.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

For something that, as said before, is not even content, since it has no impact at all on everything you do in this game.

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I quote myself here...lazy me. :D

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Originally Posted by Imuka

I have to highly disagree with that Part.
Saying that something is "only a cosmetic, nothing more, nothing less" is from my View saying that "Design/Look does not really matter.".

Going from that, we could ask,
"Why is there even a Character Creator in the Game if it is just cosmetics and instead gave us more Dungeons?,
"Why are there Websites and Facebook Groups of 14 Players, showing Glamour combinations for Characters?",
"Why do Players spend time in this Game for the looks of their Character if it is just cosmetics?".
Why does 14 Glamour even exist if it is just cosmetics?

Why if it is just cosmetics are Players spending Money for the Glamour and Mounts from the Mog Store.
The Bike and the fat Catand many others are just cosmetics to have a different Chocobo.
Why do we even have more than just basic male Humans if it is just cosmetics to make the Character look nicer for a Player?

Just imagine every single Character in this Game would look like Fungus the Bogeyman.
98% of the Players would absolutly hate it and the the other 2% would feel strangely amused everytime they see an NPC and find it amazing.
(count me in for the 2% here. ;) )

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Also, me and many others have canceled our subscriptions over this gender lock.

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Here you go, play another game, sign the petition for SE to add missing genders, come back when they add male Viera, cry on forums if they don't look like you want and unsub again (or play happily if you like them).

Defending decisions is not a good side as well, but the game have bigger problems than just missing genders. Server issues, slow UI, low-res textures, damage registration, 200 slots for glamour sets with only 10 plates, can't go in solo duty without leaving a party and we're literally sliding on ground when using skills in 2k19. And on top of that, we can get an Switch port, so it can became new PS3 for us, delaying any improvements to engine for like another eternity.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Except it's not "unfinished", it's "spreading ressources to not please only one part of the playerbase".
With male Viera instead of male Hrothgar, those who'd like to play a beast race (Something that doesn't exist right now as opposed to already having cute animal-human characters) would have been screwed. And designing two full races would have taken ressources from something else, meaning that we would have all been screwed with less content, even those who don't care at all about changing races.

For something that, as said before, is not even content, since it has no impact at all on everything you do in this game. And for those who claim that it's important for RP, It really bugs me how you can do proper RP if you change race and/or sex every time a new flavor comes into the game. Isn't your character supposed to have a background, a family, etc ?

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...you don't roleplay, do you?

There are characters that have been waiting on the wings since it was teased. female and male, and villains too!

We have people complaining about people complaining. Which is worse?

Debating is one thing.

i just do not get because someone doesn't agree with someone that they can not let people have their own opinion.

Why do people think if someone disagrees with them you are a troll or a cry baby.

People have no respect for each others opinion.

It is a video game who cares.

I like the lore-based implications of different races and gender-locked characters in terms of lore. I would rather have lore of how these races continue to exist amid having only one gender, and how it’s effected their culture in game, rather than having every race be inclusive and mirror gender dynamics in the real world.

I think people are extremely quick to label and enrage because there are no dude bunnies, but what if the Viera are essentially Lesbians, and Hrothgar are gay? We don’t have these lore details yet, but you have men and woman rushing anger and judging on what little information we do have.

I get that inclusion is important to people, but I have to say - I’m far more interested in the story being told than fighting to make every story mirror a reality I play games to escape from.

Personally, IDGAF about the genders, or lack there of. What I have a problem with is the selfish knee-jerk reaction of society nowadays to claim there must be some sort of foul play at work, homophobia, sexism, whatever the hell you want to call it.

NO.

The people at SE are artists. This is their creation. Did Leonardo Da Vinci get publicly hanged for only painting a female instead representing both genders equally? No, he did not.

Of course they are a business, so it's up to them to balance how much they want to remain true to their creative origins or shift towards what their customers want. Refusing to accept this reality is childish and selfish. Demanding that SE cater to your idealogy of equal gender representation is selfish and almost dangerous because it clouds what gender should really represent.

I'll rip SE along with anyone else when I think they screw up. Can't agree here though, sorry.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

Defending decisions is not a good side as well, but the game have bigger problems than just missing genders. Server issues, slow UI, low-res textures, damage registration, 200 slots for glamour sets with only 10 plates, can't go in solo duty without leaving a party and we're literally sliding on ground when using skills in 2k19. And on top of that, we can get an Switch port, so it can became new PS3 for us, delaying any improvements to engine for like another eternity.

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How dare you ask for actual improvements?! Wasting more resources into making 2 full races and not have them gender-locked is much more important!

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

How dare you ask for actual improvements?! Wasting more resources into making 2 full races and not have them gender-locked is much more important!

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Making new races at this point in the game was a waste of resources to begin with. SE made the choice to do so, so you can't blame people for wanting the new races to have both genders. We were originally going to have 1 new race with both male and female options, but due to fan demand they changed course and canceled the Hrothgar females to make Viera instead. If they take fan demand seriously enough to do something like that, they should take it seriously enough to remove the genderlocks too.


Personally, I would have been happier with just male and female Hrothgar and no Viera period. Would have been less messy than what we have now, since if they keep the races like this they're always going to feel incomplete and arbitrarily restricted.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

A complete feature is better than an incomplete feature. It's better, in principle, to demand that SE give us higher quality content, because if we accept crap, the bar gets lowered and the game gets worse. It has happened in the history of every MMORPG ever. Unfinished, rushed content is what killed the original FFXIV, and it's also what killed FFXV.

Some of you may not care about male viera or female hrothgar, but you're being short sighted. Pay them for half finished crap, and one day they'll stint on something you really do want.

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As far as I’m aware, you can’t play as both genders at once. Neither female Viera or male Hrothgar are “incomplete” you can only choose one race or gender at a time, and whatever you choose out of the options available, you will have the same amount of content at your disposal.
(Viera and Hrothgar head equipment is a whole other issue though which I'm not defending)

It’s a subjective viewpoint that a race is incomplete unless it has both genders.
You could also argue that a race is incomplete unless it has all ages available too, and we don’t have any children or elderly options for any of them.
You could argue that our options are incomplete because we don’t have the option to play as a Garlean, or as a hyur-elezen hybrid like Hilda, or as a fat Miqote in the trailer.

We still have two options, a male option and a female option.

It was the developers creative choice to create the Hrothgar, and resources meant a compromise had to be made to include both them and Viera.
I don’t think creative decisions should be made out of a compulsion to ‘avoid’ genderlocking if that’s not what they want to do.
It was actually the Hrothgar they wanted to make, the Viera are the fanservice race they shoehorned in to appease people. I doubt any of you would be happy if they had only implemented Hrothgar.

And I'll say this again. If they had made just the one race, we would never have seen the other. As it stands, we have a real chance of them unlocking the other genders in the future. This is the best of all worlds.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

they cant "wear" helmets and will be working on them during ShB that sounds pretty "unfinished" to me

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Adding new design for Viera gear has nothing to do with them being "finished"...but it has probably something to do with "we won't delay ShB for cosmectics consideration because we're aware that it would probably screw more people than simply the playerbase that only cares for Viera"

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Originally Posted by Kallera

...you don't roleplay, do you?

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Not much in that game, no. But if I did, I would stay faithful to the lore.