Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

I honestly don't think it needs more than maybe a single oGCD dps skill to use when Fleche and Contre are on cooldown, the removal of Embolden's drop-off, and the addition of non-damaging party support in the same way BLMs oGCDs are self-serving.

5.0 feels like a real chance to move away from stringent DPS-check-based encounter design to open party comps that might allow different, equally effective ways to get stuff done, and it wouldn't make the game any easier, just more accessible even at a meta level of play for the tiny fraction of the community for which that matters. Doing something like the above for RDM feels like an interesting way to open the floor for more varied and approachable encounters at all levels of play.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

The devs would have to take the time and resources to address every piece of gear that provides either one, materia, consumables, etc, as well as rebalance classes that would be directly affected.

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Except, they wouldn't have to. They could as easily leave it be for all but the next expansion, and it wouldn't be the first time. We already have lingering inconsistencies in stat designs over the different expansions. We have inconsistencies in relative stat pot values, in relative HP pot values, in relative food stats value. They could as easily change the name attached to either stat's tag and simply leave both Quicktongue and Quickarm in place, both as +Speed. It was not a big deal to trade "Accuracy" into "Direct Hit". It was not a big deal to change "Parry" into "Tenacity". These were specifically not done on a gear by gear basis. The tag had a name and an effect, and both were altered without having to touch the individual items.

Beyond that, there are only two items in the game that would be problematic to this design. Aetherial (Pink) items already split between Skill Speed and Spell Speed based on the attached Discipline. That leaves only Relic Weapons with custom stats, which are now pursued or kept only as cosmetics, and while it is possible to end up with "+X Crit, +Y Speed, +Z Speed" and thereby allow for twice that maxima, what would it matter now? There's only potential speedbump we don't yet know they can deal with overnight, and that's collapsing a tag, rather than trading its name or effect. But it'd be completely hidden except when looking at the basis of a few glamours and on Quicktongue/Quickarm materia, which we also know we can replace easily, from as far back as 1.x and ARR, when materia made obsolete were automatically converted into Cracked Materia of the same grade. That was, by their own report, as simple if not simpler than "Find & Replace"; they specifically gave it as a point of comparison with harder replacements such as glamour targets, cross-server glamours (as per using glamours during PvP), or job-based glamours (which we'll likely never get). (By the way, changing gear name and stat maxima -- such as on pink gear, including the retouches on the range of Eureka gear stat RNG -- were given as similarly easy processes.)

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Most likely because nobody in this thread is actually working on the design of FFXIV, meaning that suggestions do not need to meet the scrutiny of other players, but of the dev team who ultimately decide what and how to balance and program skills. To get into specifics would only serve to invite pedantic in-fighting, on top of creating attachment and hype for ideas that we ultimately have no control over actually getting into the game.

For this reason, it's more productive to argue the broad merits of suggestions, not the specifics.

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Suggestions without any specifics are pointlessly vague. Potencies and durations, etc., may not be directly relevant, but the breakpoints and gameplay they would cause absolutely are. There is a point at which an implementation may meet the basics of a suggestion, yet do so in a way that accomplishes none of what you hope for, i.e...

"We want open world content with cool new progression systems, open world bosses, and gameplay that encourages--but doesn't force us--to move around the map as we face the its hostile elements. Plenty of exploration and secrets to discover! Oh, and actual elements (Fire, Earth, etc)!"

SE: "We're looking to add something along the lines of <above>." -> /cheers

- Alternatively-

SE: "<Eureka>" -> /forewarned feedback attempting to salvage months of underwhelming content creation before it further sullies SE's reputation.

Arguing specifics without also putting forth exactly what you hope to accomplish with something may be folly, since it denies SE or anyone here the ability to note the mistakes between your dream and your actual vision as to catch your blind spots and correct for them, but arguing without specifics altogether is no more than vague gesticulation. When one says "I want a strong leader", I can picture the best possible version and concur, but I don't actually have any way to know whether your vision follows mine or you're imagining a particular angry, fanciful, intolerant, and thick-mustached fascist. When you want some specific, rather than a perverse twisting thereof, it's good to be specific. Test your idea out on the water. Check its merits and demerits. It might not be your job, but very few of us would feel any use possible in being here if SE was already performing that job perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Except, they wouldn't have to. They could as easily leave it be for all but the next expansion, and it wouldn't be the first time.

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I can't fathom this response or what you mean to accomplish by it. You don't care if they leave inconsistencies in the design (because "they've done it before") in the course of... correcting what you find to be an inconsistency in the design?

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Suggestions without any specifics are pointlessly vague. Potencies and durations, etc., may not be directly relevant, but the breakpoints and gameplay they would cause absolutely are.

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Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, I'm not sure why we're still discussing breakpoints.
If DoTs do in fact increase their ticking speed in relation to time, then the easy solution to breakpoints is just to have them end in a tick of partial damage like WoW does, so that any carryover from being between two breakpoints still translates to full value. (Sure, you lose damage if you refresh before that tick, but... you would lose damage if you refreshed before the end of the DoT anyway, that's literally how DoTs work.)
But, as you've previously stated where the devs have claimed that increasing ticking or swinging speed is actually impossible to the design (partly because of server ticks), then since we're throwing speed out the window anyway, breakpoints are easily addressed by -- as you've said -- just increasing the damage like they theoretically already would.

Second, what you're trying to argue for is a Catch-22. It is impossible to make a suggestion that "adds flexibility or nuance" without adding specifics for that nuance.
I could say "we should have a DoT where the ticks give us a bonus mechanic" and you would respond to the effect of "well then it depends on the type and value of the mechanic," itself a prompt for a more specific suggestion for scrutiny.
If I add "DoT ticks would have a chance to (random example) upgrade one of our Ver-spells into a new spell that gives additional mana and maybe MP", and then the argument would be over the specifics of that suggestion (not necessarily proc-rate or how much mana and MP, but how the DoT would fit into the rotation, whether getting our MP recovery from a proc is good, does just upgrading Verthunder/Veraero's Mana really affect the rotation, etc.), which would most likely get overlooked by the devs anyway.

Because at the end of the day, the only parts of that discussion that matter to the devs are:

• If we are to be blessed/fated/doomed to get a DoT, give us one with mechanics attached to the ticks, not just damage.
• For the love of god don't make us spam individual DoTs in AoE.
• We need innate MP recovery to sustain our rotation.
• We want to generate mana faster so we can combo more often.
• Verwater/Verflood and Verblizzard/Verfreeze plz, don't care how or what they do thx

... at which point about the only things being left out are decrying dull Scatter-spam in AoE and our low survivability as melee-hybrids.

The "how" is, was, and forevermore shall be theirs to decide.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

I can't fathom this response or what you mean to accomplish by it. You don't care if they leave inconsistencies in the design (because "they've done it before") in the course of... correcting an inconsistency in the design?

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You've spent two paragraphs two posts ago to the effect that such a change is not precedented in code and would therefore require too much effort to be worth the change despite the work in balancing the stat it would make unnecessary (finicky changes to individual skills and almost inevitably separate stat-to-effect scalars for each job).
I therefore listed out for you how every part in the process has already been done, allegedly with ease. (The only possible issue that could require significant work is a cosmetic one that players would only see if they were to build a level 50/60 Relic weapon. That much, I'll agree, might not be worth the time it may require.)

You mentioned a possible X issue which would make Y change unlikely or unaffordable. I detailed how and why X is not an issue, leaving Y change lucrative and reasonable. I'm not sure what you're having trouble fathoming.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Second, what you're trying to argue for is a Catch-22. It is impossible to make a suggestion that "adds flexibility or nuance" without adding specifics for that nuance.
I could say "we should have a DoT where the ticks give us a bonus mechanic" and you would respond to the effect of "well then it depends on the type and value of the mechanic," itself a prompt for a more specific suggestion.

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Yes. That's called granular descent, to an actual answer.

"So there's this funny story."
"Cool. Go on?"
"WHAT?! I HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC WITH THIS? I-owe-you-nothing-and-it-is-not-my-job-to-entertain-you-or-show-that-my-stories-are-funny!"
"..."

Becoming more specific isn't some weird or shocking thing. It's literally just the process of discussion.

Yes, there is a point where the specifics become gradually less worthwhile with each step, but that's why I set the emphasis on breakpoints. Breakpoints, not numbers, are what we actually feel in gameplay. We feel compromises, we feel tracking, we feel modulars, and so forth; they make up our actual gameplay decisions and elements of difficulty. That's why "I want DoTs" gives us nothing while

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

• If we are to be blessed/fated/doomed to get a DoT, give us one with mechanics attached to the ticks, not just damage.
• For the love of god don't make us spam individual DoTs in AoE.

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gives us quite a lot. The prior is just a thing, that can make gameplay better or worse. The latter is a direction for gameplay.

Alternatively,

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

• We need innate MP recovery to sustain our rotation.

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is sound, but vague enough that some of us would be curious to know how that might go wrong. You've provided examples of how we might implement MP recovery, in this case into the rotation itself, from which I would personally add to my own list,

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• We need innate MP recovery to sustain our rotation, in a way that does not feel like we're wasting time in maintenance or filler or take significant cost in our gameplay for our potential strength via Verraise. If there should be gameplay impact, it should only be if and when we're milking our utility for all it's worth.

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See? That might not have led us to an exact solution yet, but it gave us a chance to refine what we're individually looking for --or to point out what some of us did not want--, at which point we can talk about these things further or elsewhere with our viewpoint refined however much through inquiry and discussion. Is that not the point of all this?

Let's take that last bit, for instance...

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

... at which point about the only things being left out are decrying dull Scatter-spam in AoE and our poor survivability in melee.

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You may trust that if we were to say "Scatter spam is bad", its replacement would necessarily be better. I'd give it a 50/50 chance, and thus am currently trying to figure out what kind of gameplay I want from AoE and different ways to approach that gameplay as not to chance a Monkey's Paw. I fully expect most of those ideas to be torn apart; if one idea both survives and satisfies the intended gameplay, then that's what I'll put forward thereafter. General statements of desire -- like the basic concept of what Eureka could have provided -- are good, but threshed solutions -- scrapping, fixing, or polishing implementations yet with fundamental flaws -- are just inherently better.

And why wouldn't they be? More work has been done, more problems already averted.

There's no hard line between stating what you want in the vaguest degree and what you want in the second or third vaguest whereby it goes from "our job" to "SE's job". It's been entirely SE's job from the start, but that doesn't mean we don't have a right to work on what we wish.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

You've spent two paragraphs two posts ago to the effect that such a change is not precedented in code and would therefore require too much effort to be worth the change despite the work in balancing the stat it would make unnecessary

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I never said the work was unprecedented, I said it was completely unnecessary. Even if we assume that the differentiation between the Spell Speed and Skill Speed isn't to be able to tune the two stats separately, and that the gap is entirely unnecessary, the point I was trying to make was that it is quantifiably less effort to just address the small subset of affected skills directly, even assuming they were interested in redesigning them at all given they intentionally put them on separate stats in the first place.

But I can see this segment of the argument is quickly becoming circular. Let's agree to disagree and move on to more productive matters.

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"So there's this funny story."
"Cool. Go on?"
"WHAT?! I HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC WITH THIS? I-owe-you-nothing-and-it-is-not-my-job-to-entertain-you-or-show-that-my-stories-are-funny!"
"..."

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Or if we remove the deliberately unflattering strawman --

"I'm starving right now."
"Okay, what for?"
"I don't know, I just want to stuff my face, someone else pick."
"Well it can't be a restaurant because that's too expensive, and it can't be-"
"Not interested in what I'm probably not eating, I'm interested in what I can and will eat. Don't care what, as long as there's no peanuts 'cuz I'm allergic."

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There's no hard line between stating what you want in the vaguest degree and what you want in the second or third vaguest whereby it goes from "our job" to "SE's job". It's been entirely SE's job from the start, but that doesn't mean we don't have a right to work on what we wish.

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Yes, but if the point of us discussing "what we wish" is made with intent to get them implemented, then we have to weigh it against how anything we suggest or propose would be received by the dev team, who value realistic input and likely have their own hidden design notes for each class that declare what they can and cannot ever do.

Which, as long as that list doesn't include "no DoTs, ever", means never say never if they find a way to make it work.

I think you could make Scatter more fun to spam is that each proc of enhanced scatter also reduced the recast time. Let those enhanced scatter chains just come out the gate like an endless barrage of fireworks.

Then you add an Ability that prevents your VerFire, Verstone, and Enhanced Scatter from expiring for like 15 seconds. Bam. Maybe trait it to Accelerate, where the activation it procs remains usable for 2 or 3 casts. Improved Red Mage AoE and improved Red Mage burst window.

YOU GET A VERHOLY
AND YOU GET A VERHOLY
YOU ALL GET

Shi- I'm unbalanced. How do I fix thi-

Trait Corps a Corps to level you back down to "Red Balance" while gaining bonus potency based on how much Mana was lost.

Man, too many traits. How about some new sp-

VerBlizzard and VerFreeze! Using Verholy grants you unbalanced black until you use Verflare, turning VerFire into VerBlizzard and VerThunder into VerFreeze. These generate more black mana and have 0 MP cost.

VerWater and VerFlood! Using Verflare grants you unbalanced white until you use VerHoly, t urning VerStone into VerWater and VerAero into VerFlood! These generate more white mana and have shorter cast times!

ManaFont! A melee weaponskill that leaves a grievous wound on the enemy! This wound lasts for 21 seconds, causing your next Melee Weaponskill to be used against them to gain 30 potency per 3 seconds the wound has persisted. (Handy number on the 'wound' icon for easy tracking). Consuming this wound grants greater mana returns! Enchanted ManaFont extends this duration to 45 seconds!

But wait! There's more! ManaFont consumes Enhanced Scatter to additionally apply the wound to all enemies near the target!

You get a moulinet!

And YOU get a moulinet!

You ALL GET A MOULINET!

Hopefully you all like at least one of those.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

-snip-

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• My main concern with things like having skills with shorter cast times is that they would often replace skills that are often spammed on Dualcast anyway.
• I've actually been thinking about something like that recently. It's not really a high priority (as RDMs are arguably the most mobile casters, and I'd much rather focus on MP/survivability/rotation speed), but as a Black counterpart to having Vercure grant Dualcast, we could potentially receive a cheap Verscathe for movement phases, that instantly refreshes Verfire/Verstone/EnScatter/Impactful timers...
  (Although given how many procs we have, I would understand if extension would be a bit much compared to say, a chance to grant Dualcast instead, or to consume active procs to instantly cast them off-GCD.)
• While I like the suggestion to have Verholy/Verflare grant a buff that swaps between the two, I think my concern with buffing all gains of the opposite type means it's easier to get "too much" of the other mana type and end up just chaining the same Verfinisher over and over. (Plus when I was saying Verwater/Verflood and Verblizzard/Verfreeze, I was trying to go for "one or the other" on Water and Ice spells, not necessarily both.)
• I like what you're putting down with ManaFont in ST -- rush into melee to hit the target with it when you get half-Mana levels (or slap it right after a melee combo if Manafication's up) to buff your next Enchanted Riposte. Or, maybe even use Riposte outside of a combo action and use ManaFont twice as often.
  You mention "consuming the Wound for greater mana returns", but I'm somewhat confused what this means. Wouldn't using a weapon skill consume mana? Or did you mean MP? And wouldn't spreading the Wound mean getting way more mana (or MP) in AoE?

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

• You mention "consuming the Wound for greater mana returns", but I'm somewhat confused what this means. Wouldn't using a weapon skill consume mana? Or did you mean MP? And wouldn't spreading the Wound mean getting way more mana (or MP) in AoE?

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In this regard it refers to Black and White Mana. Unbalanced Black would be the active choice for the Red mage looking to go mana neutral.

Mana Font
Weaponskill
Effect: Deals 100 potency damage to the target and inflicts it with Nexus for 21s. Nexus increases the potency of the next weaponskill used by 30 and returns 1 white and 1 black mana. Nexus increases the potency by 30 and mana return by 1 every 3 seconds. Manafont consume Scatter to apply Nexus to enemies within 5y of the initial target.

Enchanted Mana Font: Extends the duration of Nexus to 45 seconds.

Bit of a shot in the dark, but if you look at the state of our rotation...

Shortcasts: Jolt/II, Impact, Scatter, Verfire, Verstone (and Vercure)
Longcasts: Veraero, Verthunder (and Verraise)

It probably shouldn't surprise anyone if we end up getting a new Longcast or two next expansion.

Verultima -- because the salt mines aren't deep enough yet.

I would like to see an AoE finisher... something like:

Each time you use Enchanted Moulinet, you gain a stack of Tectonics. Stacks up to three times.

Quake: 100 potency physical damage to target and all enemies in 10 yalms.
Additional Effect: +100 potency for each stack of Tectonics.

Red Veil: Channeled ability. Gain white and black mana each second. Whichever mana is lower will gain 5, and whichever is higher will gain 3. These values will shift to whichever mana is lower or higher at any given time. Costs 250 MP each second. Moving, to include facing a different direction, will cancel this effect. 60 second recast. [If you black is lower, it will gain 5 mana per second until it is higher than the white mana, then it will gain 3 mana per second]

Vermedica: Heals all party members within 15 yalms for a potency of 200. Costs 20 White Mana.
Verplague: Debuffs the enemy, causing it to deal 5% less damage for 5 second. Costs 20 Black Mana.

[I gave these a gauge cost to really drive home the decision making process. How bad do you need back-up heals (probably never, but if things go awry, it's there)? How bad do you need an on-demand debuff?]

Trait: Red Tempest - Verthunder has a chance to apply a black magic vulnerability up debuff, and Veraero has a chance to apply a white magic vulnerability up debuff causing the target to take 5% increased damage from all sources of black or white magic while the respective debuff is applied. Debuff lasts 5 seconds.

Are these OP? Perhaps...

Verraise: Now costs 5 White mana.

New spell: Verward
Cooldown: 60s
Grants target party member the effect of Verward, decreasing damage received by 20% for 20s, effect reduced by 20% every 4s. costs 5 Black mana.

New trait: Enchanted Moulinet has a 30% chance of resetting the cooldown of Contre Sixte.

New trait: When White and Black mana are equal, Verholy and Verflare both change into Ardor

New spell: Ardor
Same potency as Verholy/Verflare.
Additional Effect: Generates 10 of each White and Black mana and grants the effect of Impactful.


Oh also, remove the damage value from Displacement, add that back in by increasing Corps-a-corps, Ripose, Zwerchhau and Redoublement by 30 potency each.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Bit of a shot in the dark, but if you look at the state of our rotation...

Shortcasts: Jolt/II, Impact, Scatter, Verfire, Verstone (and Vercure)
Longcasts: Veraero, Verthunder (and Verraise)

It probably shouldn't surprise anyone if we end up getting a new Longcast or two next expansion.

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There’s no real reason for another long-cast spell.
The two we have are our main mana generators, one for each colour. The only option for a third would be another ‘balance’ option, which would be redundant.
Of the short-cast spells, three of them are (random) procs, so they’re not really available on demand, and they all serve as Dualcast facilitators.

I think we need a ‘balance’ finisher, something that doesn’t penalise you for having equal mana levels or reaching cap, because it’s supposed to be about balancing them after all. Ardor that I’ve suggested above would be perfect, it suits the aesthetic of the other ‘balance’ spells and being an ‘Arcane’ magic rather than Black or White is ideal. It isn’t ‘better’ than Verholy/Verflare, so you’re not striving for perfect balance, but if you happen to land on say 90/90, you don’t have to squeeze out another spell before you burst.

Then better AoE facility, the simplest option for that is granting more Contre Sixte’s, doesn’t require any new skills so no button bloat.
The only ‘extra buttons’ I’d be happy with really is additional utility, and preferably Black aspected to complement our White utility in Vercure and Verraise.

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Originally Posted by Novak_04

Red Veil: Channeled ability. Gain white and black mana each second. Whichever mana is lower will gain 5, and whichever is higher will gain 3. These values will shift to whichever mana is lower or higher at any given time. Costs 250 MP each second. Moving, to include facing a different direction, will cancel this effect. 60 second recast. [If you black is lower, it will gain 5 mana per second until it is higher than the white mana, then it will gain 3 mana per second]

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Gah, I'd love that one. But yes, with the MP cost removed as per the below post.

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Originally Posted by Novak_04

Red Veil: Channeled ability. Gain white and black mana each second. Whichever mana is lower will gain 5, and whichever is higher will gain 3. These values will shift to whichever mana is lower or higher at any given time. Costs 250 MP each second. Moving, to include facing a different direction, will cancel this effect. 60 second recast. [If you black is lower, it will gain 5 mana per second until it is higher than the white mana, then it will gain 3 mana per second]

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I like this, but I'd take out the mp cost since it's essentially the same ability as Meditation on SAM.

Just give me a buff that makes it raid relevant.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

There’s no real reason for another long-cast spell.
The two we have are our main mana generators, one for each colour. The only option for a third would be another ‘balance’ option, which would be redundant.

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Not necessarily. For instance, we have no Longcast AoE spells, and there are always opportunities to "proc upgrade" Veraero and Verthunder into other spells (such as Verwater or Verblizzard).

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The only option for a third would be another ‘balance’ option, which would be redundant.

I think we need a ‘balance’ finisher, something that doesn’t penalise you for having equal mana levels or reaching cap

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These two statements appear contradictory, but I'll deconstruct the latter either way. I previously considered a third Verfinisher myself for exactly the reasons you discussed, but ultimately decided against it for the following reason.

Let's say we have a third Verfinisher representing "Balance" -- Ardor, Verultima, whatever. Now we're looking at two scenarios:

1) The new Verfinisher is ultimately stronger or weaker than the other two options; it either obsoletes them, making the other two buttons clutter and compelling you to try to balance or cap your mana every time, or it is a "better luck next time" consolation prize which becomes an ideal goal of the rotation to never use. Either way the player safely leaves one or the others off their action bar.
(As an aside, Ardor as suggested would end up weaker than the other two, providing both inferior mana and a more readily available proc. The best way to improve it to the level you suggest would be to have it ignore Impactful entirely, and just provide 12-15 of each mana outright as each Verfinisher+proc technically provides 30... but...)

2) As you hope: The new Verfinisher somehow ends up being perfectly balanced with the other two, allowing the user to... safely ignore the balance gauge mechanic entirely. All three being essentially equal, having three Verfinishers is redundant and ultimately serves to clutter the design space, leading to calls to remove one or the others.

I think the takeaway from the "balance" concept isn't that we should be constantly choking our black-to-white casting ratio to be pixel-perfect -- focusing on red spells and only using black to get ahead when we can safely counter with white -- but rather that we always attempt to correct imbalances that may crop up while allowing both to flourish, empowering our white magic when our black magic pushes ahead and vice versa; that's ultimately the goal of Verholy and Verflare, and why our rotation is so proc-dependent in the first place.

To be honest, I think there are ways to make a third Verfinisher plausible by virtue of giving it its own niche (which is ultimately the point of the Red Mage, compared to Black and White), but the trouble is that in order to keep the player using all three, such scenarios would have to be so far between as to make the addition a pointless gesture.
For instance, you could have a third Verfinisher representing "balance" that substitutes mana gain for cleave damage... but then you wouldn't be able to use it with Moulinet, in scenarios where you may actually want cleave damage.
You could have a third Verfinisher that substitutes mana gain for MP gain... but then you'd be losing output from the other Verfinishers, so you'd never willingly put it into your main rotation for maintenance (though I suppose if it fully replenished your MP bar, you might consider it once in a boss fight...), and you'd have to invest ludicrous amounts of MP in order to gain MP back, making it counterintuitive to use when actually needed (ie right after being revived).

As I explained, you're currently penalised for having perfect balance, a very common scenario when the goal is to balance your mana levels.
This is very disruptive to your rotation and flow of battle, when you'd like to jump into your melee rotation you'll find yourself discouraged at the risk of losing DPS, so you have to cast another spell before you burst, which delays your burst and again reduces your average DPS.

There's no reason to penalise having a perfect balance. It wouldn't lead you to ignoring the balance gauge altogether, because you'd still need to know if one was higher than the other, or if they were equal, to know which finisher you'll need and which follow up spell will proc.

As it stands, you're paying too much attention to the balance gauge, because you're not just thinking "which one is lowest" you're thinking "which one is lowest, and which spell will not put me in perfect balance, I can either add 9 or 11 and need to ensure the diference between levels isn't exactly 9 or 11" you're forced to do constant arithmetic, which is distracting.

Having a viable option for either scenario doesn't remove any difficulty or result in less attention being required, too much reduction in attention rather, because which of the three options you find yourself using still affects how your rotation progresses.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

As I explained, you're currently penalised for having perfect balance, a very common scenario when the goal is to balance your mana levels.

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I wouldn't really call it a "penalty". It's not like you lose out on 600 potency if you balance -- you just go from 100% chance to proc a spell that's 1 mana stronger than Impact, to 20% (and that's not even considering if you already had the corresponding procs active going into your combo, which is arguably just as common as going into melee with a perfect balance). The fact that there's still a chance to get the proc anyway shows the devs fully expected exactly the scenarios you mentioned.
To call that a penalty is a matter of perspective; I'd argue it's more of a reward for going into it slightly unbalanced (bearing in mind that with a 100 cap and an 80 buy-in, any imbalance is still within the red territory), especially as each Verfinisher gives you the bonus for rebalancing.

Okay, sure, you lose out on damage if you overcap, but managing and controlling resource generation is a key part of gameplay for any resource. If anything I'd argue if that was truly so out of hand for us, there's more cause for another ability that shaves off some mana than a redundant finisher.
But either way what you're really asking for is a safety net against bad procs (or just bad play), which already is fairly mitigated in our design.

So, with regards to the discussion of MP:

The way I see it, there are four different ways to accomplish a unique MP recovery skill.

1) On-demand generation. Either a new spell (such as Osmose) or a trait on an existing, underused ability (ie non-Enchanted melee) that gives us a small amount of generation each time it's used, encouraging us to spam the ability as often as we need MP.
Positives: Easy to use after death, or when running out of MP as a result of Verraising. Aesthetically, a new spell could provide a Black equivalent to Vercure.
Negatives: Spells of this variety that already exist (Blood Drain, Energy Drain) are never optimally used within the core rotation, primarily because the tradeoff for generating MP comes at the cost of damage or alternative resources; if the primary intent of MP generation is rotational upkeep, then forcing the user to venture outside of it to maintain it is counter-intuitive and rewarding bad play. Plus the existing versions have painfully low generation, forcing long breaks from the rotation for a modicum of recovery.

2) Passive generation. Either a weak Refresh buff we can use on-demand, or a trait to increase our base MP recovery in-combat.
Positives: Can be slipped into the rotation opener so we can pay off upkeep, and can pay off Verraise costs at a staggered, easily-tuned rate. May not require a target.
Negatives: Boring. Slow. Literally passive. If in the form of a Refresh buff, forces maintenance within the rotation not unlike a DoT. Allows you to completely forget about MP outside of Verraise or death.

3) Burst generation. Take a strong, infrequent ability within the rotation (ie Enchanted melee/Verfinishers) and add substantial MP gain.
Positives: Already within the rotation allowing for easy maintenance, substantial MP gain can quickly (albeit infrequently) charge another use of Verraise.
Negatives: Requires us to perform a substantial portion of our rotation just to regain MP, which can be difficult if we're running low and need to regain MP.

4) Off-GCD Cooldown. Aetherflow, Convert, Assize, Ewer, another Lucid Dreaming. Either add MP gain to an existing CD (Fleche, Contre Sixte) or create a new one.
Positives: Dependent on potency. Can easily be used after resurrection or pooled for Verraising. Could be traited to dynamically reduce its recovery time during the course of combat, allowing idyllic rotational upkeep. Could inflict damage to become a part of the rotation or potentially be used without a target; broad possibilities.
Negatives: Dependent on cooldown length (though most outside LD are short; Convert is 3m but belongs to a class with innate recovery anyway). From experience with Lucid Dreaming, recovery via CD is limiting, particularly when that CD has already been activated. Plus, everyone else has one, and we already cycle like 3-4 oGCDs in our rotation.

Conclusions: Any type of MP generation needs to evenly weigh the ability to recover from a low MP state against the ability to maintain our core rotation. Every type of MP recovery known to us prioritizes one but imbalances the other. As long as we can rotate with Lucid Dreaming, pick your poison, not everyone will be happy regardless.

like Burns or Windburn there you go enhanced the basic package for RDM but lets also bear in mind the utility of Verraise and Vercure something that makes the middle of the pack damage worth taking a RDM over the Turret or DoT Boy.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

like Burns or Windburn there you go enhanced the basic package for RDM but lets also bear in mind the utility of Verraise and Vercure something that makes the middle of the pack damage worth taking a RDM over the Turret or DoT Boy.

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The main concern with RDM's current utility is that, ideally, it should never need to be deployed. Verraise is great for progression and random Duty Finders (where people have no choice but to suffer you for at least 15 minutes), but has no role in a group that knows what it's doing because nobody should be dying. Meanwhile the RDM should be dealing damage rather than healing, so Vercure's main purposes are giving yourself Dualcast when an enemy isn't around, and topping yourself off right before you detonate when your healers are being slow or ignoring you. They're safety nets to catch you in a bad team, but don't really help a good team shine.

That being said: I don't think we need a Vermedica.
There's a thin line between "bringing utility" and "stepping on the healer's toes". Gaining an option to heal the party without looking away from the boss, which will only be deployed when you know the healers are slacking, falls on the latter.

Thread is tl;dr but what I would like to see most for RDM is more damage utility for the group. Embolden alone is embarrassing and as we all know the rezbot meme gets less and less useful the further into prog the group gets.

This will be a nonissue in 5.x but I was SO confident they were going to give piercing resistance down to RDM in 4.x. It would have made so much sense. That being said I'd like to see some kind of damage up associated with the melee combo for the party similar to Radiant Shield.

The class also deserves more in terms of party buffs, I would propose haste although I don't know exactly how I would put it in.

I also know that a lot of people would like Vermedica, and if I were to implement it I would probably make it a cooldown that expands Vercure on a 45s+ cooldown. I think that would be a reasonable balance. Perhaps this proposed expansion buff would also work for Haste which would otherwise be single target. The difficulty here is that the DPS role should (in my opinion) be focusing mostly on its damage and not on having to use full GCDs to buff/heal the party and being the only DPS that can do so making it even more invaluable than it already is.


I'm not going to lie, the novelty of RDM wore off for me fast and I do not enjoy playing the job currently, but it still deserves to be a viable and competitive option outside of just rezbot for prog. I hope to see them do something that will be satisfying, enjoyable, and helpful to the group.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

The main concern with RDM's current utility is that, ideally, it should never need to be deployed. Verraise is great for progression and random Duty Finders (where people have no choice but to suffer you for at least 15 minutes), but has no role in a group that knows what it's doing because nobody should be dying.

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And that is part of the issue with it at the moment - it pays a substantial dps tax for utility that is mostly relevant under suboptimal play/progression. It's also not utility that SMN doesn't bring in some fashion, but SMN obviously can't dispense resses as often - nor should one need to unless the group is particularly bad.

I'm still of the mindset that RDMs should embrace their ability to combine the strengths of both white and black magic into new forms. (Beyond just having a Yin-Yang Bomb limit break anyway.)
Rather than just copying the entire WHM and BLM arsenal wholesale, they should be able to come up with effects fitting for either that neither one has a place for.

En-elemental spells or other damage buff effects wouldn't necessarily be a bad way to go about this. Black Mages are destructive but selfish with their powers, White Magic is beneficial but abstinent from unnecessary violence, Red Mages have none of those qualms and all of the same knowledge. My only concern would be figuring out how to justify having just one element or balancing more than one, particularly when elemental damage types are pretty meaningless post-2.0.

Haste in particular would not only be universal in its aid to a party (Embolden limiting itself to DPS non-casters), but also could be justified as an extension of Dualcast and fitting with RDM's use of rapiers; few things in nature are as quick as an Olympic fencer's blade. I think my only concern with giving RDM some type of Haste effect would be that Time Magic verges on the Astrologian path... but if limiting Summoners to 3 Egis can be given a lore explanation then I don't see why letting RDMs play around with other disciplines can't be too. (We all know the next time we see X'rhun Tia he'll say he found some lost ancient art anyway.)

Or perhaps something entirely new for RDMs. Could you imagine if we had some 2-3 minute cooldown that, say, let everyone around the user cast while moving for a brief period?

My only complaints with RDM, really, are:

• No MP recovery outside of Lucid Dreaming. My suggestion to offset this is to have the melee combo restore MP in the same fashion as PLD's Riot Blade; must be combo and each move restores MP. Can be enchanted or unenchanted. Think of it as cutting into the enemy and leeching off their aether.
  
• Displacement moves too far while also dealing damage. I find this at odds of removing damage from utility skills, like BRD's Repelling Shot and WHM's Fluid Aura. SB also brought a larger number of fights with wall-less stages that you could just fall off of and die. They existed previously to SB, but few with stages small enough that you really had to fear Repelling Shot off (Titan EX's stage being the smallest with more than 15y distance; ARR has 8 fights, HW has 8 fights and SB has 10 fights).
  
• RDM has a great deal of mobility, but it's not enough outside of dualcast, swiftcast or melee. They need at least one instant cast spell to use when they need to move so their DPS doesn't completely tank. They don't have the sheer firepower of a BLM (that still have triple-cast as well as swift) and SMN is even more mobile than RDM (everything in DWT is instant, Ruin II is instant even if it is a DPS loss unless Bahamut is out).
  
• The optimal time to use Embolden for the raid is well before the optimal window for RDM's opener. I'd love to see the window extended or keep a flat buff of 10% rather than 10, 8, 6, 4, 2.
  
• I personally don't see a need for a DoT, but if people want it, I suggest adding a DoT depending on which finisher you used. Wind, water, earth or even a new light one for VerHoly; fire, ice, lightning or darkness for VerFlare. Or just add in a generic bleed because it was just off of a melee combo. I don't see the need of making it so annexed from the rest of the kit, like how Fracture and Scourge were.

I have a personal gripe of RDM 'only being wanted for instant, fast raises.' I say that as having mained RDM for Delta and Sigmascapes before going back to my main job since ARR, WHM. It's one thing to have the RDM raise someone because there's a mechanic coming up that either needs everyone (like ExDeath's blackhole merry-go-round + fires) or Omega's blue and yellow fists (gets awkward when it goes to MT and Mustard Bomb is coming up), but I view it as rather lazy to make the RDM's DPS suffer because a healer doesn't want to raise. Especially when they get the 3 to 4 DPS casts off without needing to move (slow raising is a little over 2 casts and is affected by lightspeed, fey wind and presence of mind). My personal fix to this would be to change VerRaise into a CD that takes no MP. However, some would argue this takes away RDM's 'identity' of being a raise-battery. An identity I'd rather the class be without.

That would be to fix the current RDM. I'm really interested to see what the dev team comes up with for SH RDM.

I know I could edit my other post, but seeing as someone liked it, didn't want to sneakily add something to it.

To add onto the DoT / finisher idea:

• It doesn't stack, use VerFlare or VerHoly and it's replaced by the new one.
• However, it leaves a buff/debuff that only effects the RDM that placed it: if VerHoly was the last finisher used, the next VerFlare will deal additional damage and/or a more potent tick.
• Even with RDM's RNG nature, when I was paying attention to the last finisher I used, I found it wasn't too hard to keep white and black mana balanced to be able to have the correct mana to use the other finisher.

To be honest in my experience as a SMN with an RDM in a triple caster no ranged DPS comp is that it's better for me to raise, even hardcast raise if I can get away with it, most of the time. Unless I'm in the middle of Bahamut I'm almost always the one person who can afford to do it in terms of GCD value and MP constraints. RDM's raise utility is essentially worthless outside of extremely specific scenarios where you need a healer up and and topped off in time or it's a wipe, especially if you have a SMN in the same comp or they could play SMN to a reasonable level instead. If they're only good at RDM then not having a BRD or MCH is a big issue for them. I'd like to see RDM get more MP for that reason. It's why one of my suggestions early on in the thread gave them an MP cooldown that restored more MP based on how much they had missing in order to account for how their DPS is affected by on-demand fast raises.

Otherwise I feel RDM just needs Embolden to affect everyone and that they need their rotation expanded upon with Black/White Mana Spenders that make waiting for Manafication viable.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

[...] If they're only good at RDM then not having a BRD or MCH is a big issue for them. I'd like to see RDM get more MP for that reason. It's why one of my suggestions early on in the thread gave them an MP cooldown that restored more MP based on how much they had missing in order to account for how their DPS is affected by on-demand fast raises.

Otherwise I feel RDM just needs Embolden to affect everyone and that they need their rotation expanded upon with Black/White Mana Spenders that make waiting for Manafication viable.

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Ran a savage comp that was RDM/BLM and no ranged physical. Only raised for prog, but once we started hitting enrages, didn't raise. MP wasn't an issue as both the BLM and I pretty much kept Mana Shift on CD. Even with just Lucid, you'll slowly gain MP over the fight. The problem is definitely raising eating 25% of your max MP, having one refresh tool and cutting into your DPS to raise (SMN can oGCD a raise - RDM essentially has to eat a GCD to raise) AND has a pretty lackluster raid utility buff (seriously, scaling from 10% to 0 every 4 seconds is terrible as you'll always want your DoTs/hardest hitting moves in those first 4 seconds and pretty much ignore the rest of it) that I think makes the class suffer the most. It's not really any one thing so much as the overall kit is too mundane.

I mean that would all be forgivable if its dps was decent... but it isn't. They definitely need to consider how to give it better utility.

I know it's ShB wishlist, but would anyone be against RDM getting a finisher at level 60 as opposed to getting two nearly identical ones close together? (Verflare and Verholy only have differing mana gains and procs) Can reduce the potencies or trait something if necessary, but could be a nice little quality of life to the job perhaps.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

I know it's ShB wishlist, but would anyone be against RDM getting a finisher at level 60 as opposed to getting two nearly identical ones close together? (Verflare and Verholy only have differing mana gains and procs) Can reduce the potencies or trait something if necessary, but could be a nice little quality of life to the job perhaps.

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I don't know, because you end up doing far less capped level content that max level content. Job rotation seems to be planned in that mindset, and rethinking "in between" rotations would be weird.
Potencies of RDM are already kinda high at level 50 and 60, even without a finisher so I guess it's fine. Disbalancing one of the finishers to make it available sooner would break the flow of RDM in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

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I get what you are saying, but also at level 70 what truly decides whether a player uses Verflare or Verholy, who doesn't pick one over the other just for the special effects as opposed to the benefits. I suppose my thinking behind splitting up the finishers was that the job would be more in line with a number of other jobs that have one finisher at the end of their rotation, rather than an actual choice you know.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

I suppose my thinking behind splitting up the finishers was that the job would be more in line with a number of other jobs that have one finisher at the end of their rotation, rather than an actual choice you know.

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Though, the thing is, Red Mage is specifically unlike other jobs, in the fact it has 2 lots of each of its skills. Due to the unique job gauge which is all about generating 2 different types of mana. Whereby gameplay is selecting which of 2 skills is best utilized at any given time based around the levels of both mana, as you want to keep both gauges within a limit of each other so as to be able to do your melee burst (Which drains both mana types equally)

If anything, a third finisher makes more sense than a single one, one that grants a bonus if you combo at equal mana levels (As opposed to currently where you're rewarded from having an imbalance in mana so as to get a guarantee proc from Verflare/Verholy)

Since, RDM's schtick is about choice of similar spells due to one of them giving a slight bonus based on the mana it generates (Or bonus it gets from certain mana levels)

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Originally Posted by Kalise

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Though what I'm saying is how many casual players are too bothered about which finisher they use when not much seperates them. Yes you can use them to balance mana but if a player let's say opts to use nothing but Verflare each time (for guaranteed proc or not) they still have the means to build up the other mana that is low, there is no requirement for a player to alternate between the finishers. RDM doesn't have any timers to use the mana so it can be gained however the player prefers, spell balancing still needs to happen outside of finishers anyway so nothing changes in that respect

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Originally Posted by Kurando

I know it's ShB wishlist, but would anyone be against RDM getting a finisher at level 60 as opposed to getting two nearly identical ones close together? (Verflare and Verholy only have differing mana gains and procs) Can reduce the potencies or trait something if necessary, but could be a nice little quality of life to the job perhaps.

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I can see your reasoning, and perhaps we could see something like a placeholder finisher offered early on with a later trait to upgrade it into Verflare or Verholy at their appropriate levels (or even offer both finishers at the same level and push Manafication and every ability after it back 2 levels to fit the placeholder finisher in at 60)...

But at the same time I don't think it's terribly necessary? Each finisher is just another add-on to an otherwise full melee combo, so even for the purposes of quality-of-life, it's hard to say we're really "missing" anything from it early on, just expanding it. It's like how some people were asking earlier in the thread for another finisher for us to use after both Verflare and Verholy have both been used -- adding on to what is, as we look at it now, a complete combo. All we're missing before the collection of the next finisher is potency, and if Mansion is correct, then we're at no particular loss for it early on. Manafication itself likely adds more to the rotation at the point it's introduced than the finisher.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

If anything, a third finisher makes more sense than a single one, one that grants a bonus if you combo at equal mana levels (As opposed to currently where you're rewarded from having an imbalance in mana so as to get a guarantee proc from Verflare/Verholy)

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... which as I was telling Seraphor before, would still be somewhat redundant. For starters, if we're discussing the two finishers we already have as "a choice", then giving us a third, equally potent option simply serves to create clutter -- and if they're not equally potent, will simply obsolete one or the others.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

... which as I was telling Seraphor before, would still be somewhat redundant. For starters, if we're discussing the two finishers we already have as "a choice", then giving us a third, equally potent option simply serves to create clutter -- and if they're not equally potent, will simply obsolete one or the others.

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Not unless they're only equally potent, under specific circumstances.

I.e. Instead of their only "Gain" being the 100% proc rate on VerOrange and VerWhite (Forgive me, their name escapes me... I just go by the colour of the icon in-game >.>) if they had additional potency when heavier on White/Black or when balanced.

You could even try and translate this bonus into a slight gameplay shift such as "Your next 3 spells of [White/Black/Dual Magic] deals a bonus X potency but generate 50% less mana" (This is just examples of things that could be altered, rather than an actual suggestion)

Or something along those lines, whereby as you're building up to your melee combo, you might assess the fight and try and opt for a specific mana set up to get a particular Finisher out for the effect it will have on your rotation and damage output (Say if a mobility phase is coming up and one of the finishers gives some insta-casts. Or if a burst phase is coming up and one finisher gives like, bonus damage. Or if it's just a normal phase so you go with the highest DPS (Mana generating) finisher)

As opposed to right now where you don't care which finisher you get, just as long as you get one of them to proc 100% (But it's not the end of the world if you only get the 20% proc and then also low roll it)

I would love for them to turn the RDM job gauge into a sword, and the black/white mana gauge are the fuller in the center of the blade. Above the blade is the crystal that turns either red/black/white to indicate balance. The leftside of the crossguard has a white gem and the right side of the crossguard has a black gem. After using Verflare, the black gem glows, and vice versa for Verholy. When both gems activate, the pommel glows red, and activates the use of the spell Ardor, which is an AoE 500 potency spell (Deathflare/Foul equivalent). Ardor restores 10% of RDM's MP, too.

Ardor's animation could be something like the RDM stabs their blade into the ground and releases all the accumulated ambient aether in a blue fiery explosion that releases both black/white magic energy.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I would love for them to turn the RDM job gauge into a sword, and the black/white mana gauge are the fuller in the center of the blade. Above the blade is the crystal that turns either red/black/white to indicate balance. The leftside of the crossguard has a white gem and the right side of the crossguard has a black gem. After using Verflare, the black gem glows, and vice versa for Verholy. When both gems activate, the pommel glows red, and activates the use of the spell Ardor, which is an AoE 500 potency spell (Deathflare/Foul equivalent). Ardor restores 10% of RDM's MP, too.

Ardor's animation could be something like the RDM stabs their blade into the ground and releases all the accumulated ambient aether in a blue fiery explosion that releases both black/white magic energy.

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So... while I'm liking the idea of the visual change for the mana gauge, I strongly disagree with everything else about this.

• Ardor being a 500 potency AoE would not only be weaker than both Verflare and Verholy, but making it an AoE that can only be accessed via a single-target rotation means it can't be used in actual AoE contexts. This is unlike Foul, which (in addition to actually being substantially stronger) can be generated in either AoE or single-target with substantial uses in both.
• Making a "capstone" skill that's dependent on using both Verflare and Verholy means a ~80 second buildup (barring downtime) only slightly favorable to SMN's.
• In addition to the previous point, having such a skill be the core of our MP regeneration would mean a massive MP investment to get MP back, particularly in scenarios where we would need large amounts of MP restored such as immediately after death. Restoring only 10% for such a lengthy time-investment would still force us to be reliant on LD to maintain our rotation upkeep.
• Perhaps a nitpick, but... as RDMs we use swords with D-Guards or Basket-hilts, very few of which have Crossguards.

At the risk of creating something arguably overpowered, I had some... thoughts about RDM, in response to both recent feedback I've been seeing and giving personally.

In addition to merging the buttons for Jolt/Impact, the Melee combo, the Verproc/Verfinishers, and removing the damage from Corps-a-Corps and Displacement:

Trait - Syphon:
Ripose, Zwerchau and Redoublement restore MP based on damage dealt.
Moulinet also reduces the remaining cooldown of Contre Sixte by 1.5 sec for each target struck; this effect is doubled if Enchanted.

Spell - Verscathe: (Instant)
Deals unaspected damage to the target with a potency of 120, and has a 50% chance to grant Dualcast.

Spell - Ardor: (2 sec cast)
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 50 to the target and all nearby enemies. All affected targets receive the Overheat status for 30 seconds, dealing unaspected damage over time with a potency of 30.
Your attacks against a target you have afflicted with Overheat have a 20% chance to grant Aether Saturation, upgrading Verthunder to Verfreeze and Veraero to Verflood, respectively.

Verfreeze: (5 sec cast) Deals ice damage to the target and nearby enemies, with a potency of 340 to the first target, 40% less to the second, and 60% less to all other targets.
Increases Black Mana by 11, and an additional 2 Black Mana for each target struck. Consumes Aether Saturation on cast. Does not grant Verfire Ready.

Verflood: (5 sec cast) Deals water damage to the target and nearby enemies, with a potency of 340 to the first target, 40% less to the second, and 60% less to all other targets.
Increases White Mana by 11, and an additional 2 White Mana for each target struck. Consumes Aether Saturation on cast. Does not grant Verstone Ready.

Ability - En Garde: (2 min CD)
Raise a barrier of swords, reducing incoming damage by 30% for up to 20 sec. While active, receiving damage has a chance relative to the amount of damage taken to reset the cooldown on Fleche. En Garde ends upon casting Fleche.

Trait - Equilibrium:
Performing any uninterrupted sequence of Verfire, Verthunder and Verfreeze in succession grants Verholy Ready.
Performing any uninterrupted sequence of Verstone, Veraero and Verflood in succession grants Verflare Ready.

All numbers are samples and all names subject to change. May particularly have to tweak Verflood/Verfreeze's mana gains since they don't proc Verstone/Verfire and only grant 2 more Mana than their downgrades in single-target.
(Of course if I cranked it up any higher I might worry about mana imbalance. Perhaps if each granted just a little of the other's mana too, it might be ok?)

Results:

• Making MP gain dependent on melee damage encourages using Enchanted melee to sustain the rotation, but also allows the use of unenchanted combos as a reliable (if minor) kickstart if we're full-out of MP.
• Verscathe acts as a BLM utility for casting on the go, counterpart to Vercure's purpose of granting us Dualcast without a target.
• Yes, I know, I added a DoT, but it wouldn't particularly be different if I just made Ardor a debuff without damage, aside from losing a place to put the damage from CaC and Disp back in. And as an AoE DoT like Aero III or Miasma II, we both resolve any issues of multidotting and allow it to proc Verflood/Verfreeze more reliably off of Scatter in multi-target scenarios.
• The CD reduction to Contre Sixte in addition to 3 spells used in both single- and multi-target means our AoE goes from 2 buttons and a semi-lengthy CD for a slow rotation, to 6 buttons and a rotation that picks up speed relative to crowd size.
• Why don't Verfreeze and Verflood proc Verfire and Verstone? Partly because proccing those would interfere with the AoE rotation; partly because the pairing would grant more mana than either Verfinisher; and mostly just to make the rotation more complex.
• En Garde presents a unique survivability skill befitting the job.
• With the addition of a means to cast Verholy/Verflare outside the Melee combo, we set the groundwork for more finishers to be added to the rotation later on. Bearing in mind that as the conditions of Equilibrium require 2 Longcasts (one of which grants no proc) and 1 Shortcast, realistically deploying it would require either good luck lining up procs, Swiftcast, or just plain giving up on a speedy melee combo -- and of course, the spontaneous gain of 21 mana helps to correct any mana imbalance from casting three spells of the same type in a row. All of this while still having to stay within a 30 Mana balance to avoid losing damage should create a subtly more complex rotation than just adding a new Verfinisher.

I'd like something along these lines. I'd just add Swiftcast spells procing Dualcast to the above.