Early Pulling - Is it wrong?

I consider it an early pull if I popped it and didn't have time to reach it before it died.

One Croque I was the only one at the node. I waited till near the end to hit it, presumably it popped because I heard a billion shouts and it was dead before I even got there. There are other examples - sometimes I'll pop something like Brontes or Croak. 30 seconds later someone pulls.

I've also had S ranks where the wait was nearly 10-15 mins and people still were crying early pull /rolls eyes

In general I consider it only polite for at least the travel time to the hunt + 1 minute after you get there. Ideally 5 mins on an S rank was considered polite but you'll always have someone showing up late and whining that it was an early pull (In which case said person needs a better LS) But if you're pulling the moment you get there, it's probably too early. Waiting at least 1 minute after you get there is considered polite.

But yes there's no such thing, technically, as an early pull. SE originally pitched it as as 'you're running through the zone and find a hunt, you beg/cajole your FC mates into showing up to kill it'. People found that it was possible for lots of people (not just 1 person/party/alliance) to get full credit so a LS relay community was born. Being impatient and pulling 'early' just goes against that community spirit.

Someone can post the meme " you arent wrong just an a***ole" for me plz? Thx xD

It doesn't make you an A***ole either...

Everyone that gets THIS upset over this, should not be doing this in the first place... they should be doing something else in the game. There are multiple avenues to do things... and don't give me that "Well this is fastest" crap... because I don't want to hear it.

If hunting is raising your stress level sooo high that you feel the need to lash out because you missed out on something... then you are the one with the problem... not the puller.

on my sever it used to be the norm to wait about 2-4 minutes before pulling. Then in the last week or so an fc showed up that pulls as soon as they get there every time, seem to always be on hunting and i'm pretty sure don't report kills either so the hunter tracker thing is messed up. These guys have pretty much killed the hunt on my server.
Do you guys really think its okay for a small group of people to be make an entire part of the game impossible to play for the rest of the people on the server?

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Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3

do you guys really think its okay for a small group of people to be make an entire part of the game impossible to play for the rest of the people on the server?

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Well... To be frank, yes. The way hunts are handled now is not how they were intended. The way that FC is handling them on the other hand is how they were intended to be handled. You may not like it, but that's the fact of the matter.

I just said it as a joke but yeah you arent wrong the hunting point its to search and kill, one can say its people vs people, we just put "regulations" so everyone can take marks but those are just ours no "legal regulations" were GMs can do something.

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Originally Posted by Kathyz

I just said it as a joke

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Which is exactly why I didn't quote you the first time, because I was saying that in general, not specifically directed at you.

I stopped hunting a long time ago. However; I still have to deal with all the yelling and shouting, and crappy behavior from people that showed 2 seconds too late or w/e.

I stopped hunting, when one day I had been shouting, talking to shells etc... about a hunt I found... was there for 30 min... finally we decide to just kill it.. like "i guess no ones online or interested right now" Then when it is almost dead a huge horde of people show up and start cursing at us etc...

That's crap behavior, and it wasn't on my end.

I would not say there are early pull if I could not see the difference from a hunt to another. BUT there are difference, a hunt, a morning, as for A than for a S, is pretty neat and fair. The week-end some people who don't play during the week come and destroy everything without a d*mn care even for the one who make the S spawn. Why do you believe in our server, we ended to blacklist and exclude not only players but sometimes full FC from hunt LS. Because they pull when the people who do the spawn have the right to claim and decide when to pull.

When people fake the hunt reporting tool, is it something else than just trolling in their own interest? It is just selfish, it is not the way the game has been designed for. This is all but an excuse people use to justify their selfishness and if Yoshida more or less told he will not change things, it is because in Japan, players are more fair than us in western countries. He only think we have to do our own regulation.

I would not say there are early pull if there weren't dps who troll tanks in dungeon just because they are in a hurry, these people who play as if their only purpose was to purish game of other players, as if their only enjoyment were in despising and purish others. I can't tolerat this. World is not justice, for the less, but is is not with accepting such behavior we can do things going better. Selfishness and purish other's experience can't be tolerated.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

Well... To be frank, yes. The way hunts are handled now is not how they were intended. The way that FC is handling them on the other hand is how they were intended to be handled. You may not like it, but that's the fact of the matter.

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I said I was done with this thread, but I really want to highlight this. If this is what I think it is - an FC going out of its way to find and kill hunts without calling them, then in my opinion that's their business (assuming they're not going out of their way to kill hunts called by others before the "mass" can arrive). I agree with Corfish here, it's the way Hunts are meant to be done. Other hunting groups "call" their hunts to others (linksheslls, FCs, /shout) as a courtesy - one I appreciate, and respect by not pulling hunts I didn't find myself.

--Erim Nelhah

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Originally Posted by Marcellus_Cassius

It kinda does, but to each their own how they choose to practice good manners.

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That seems.... irrelevant, doesn't it? Please and thank you shouldn't abate to a 5-10 minute wait due to someone lagging behind on being aware of a hunt they were going after, which is also unfortunately unknowing to the awaiting group already at the hunt anyways, so how are they to even know? People have attempted this before, and it ends the same. Group waits a few minutes longer than usual before engaging the target, yet someone still asks if the target is dead, or why they haven't waited. There's no winning in the end if someone wants to sake their side of an argument using just that.

Hunts are dumb and putting unlimited gear upgrades from 230 to 240 is even worse. You get a once a week upgrade from running the 24 man content but hunts are unlimited and require no skill plus ppl cheat like crazy with guild works. So how is it even a hunt if guild works can tell everyone where it is without having to hunt for it? I will say it again, They should add the seals to 24 man content, roulette and things like that so that you upgrade your gear doing something fun and requires more skill then a hunt. Weeping City is nice, Why not put 100 seals at the end of the raid as a reward? Feels like laziness on SEs part and a lack of community by having a few flat out cheat on hunts. Plus, sucks when you wait for the hunt for a minute or two and that server trash runs up and solo pulls. Real classy.

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Originally Posted by Millen1

Hunts are dumb and putting unlimited gear upgrades from 230 to 240 is even worse. You get a once a week upgrade from running the 24 man content but hunts are unlimited and require no skill plus ppl cheat like crazy with guild works. So how is it even a hunt if guild works can tell everyone where it is without having to hunt for it? I will say it again, They should add the seals to 24 man content, roulette and things like that so that you upgrade your gear doing something fun and requires more skill then a hunt. Weeping City is nice, Why not put 100 seals at the end of the raid as a reward? Feels like laziness on SEs part and a lack of community by having a few flat out cheat on hunts. Plus, sucks when you wait for the hunt for a minute or two and that server trash runs up and solo pulls. Real classy.

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But... you'd die if you solo pulled. o-o;

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Originally Posted by CheshirePuss

But... you'd die if you solo pulled. o-o;

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The problem is once someone so much as aggros the mob, everyone else rushes in guns blazing because they're afraid they might miss out if they attempt to bank on letting the puller die or wait for the mob to reset. The puller is unlikely to die, and even if they did the damage is already done because the mob is going to die in a matter of seconds.

I'm the designated puller though

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

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This point makes me feel like we're pointlessly coming back full circle yet again. The official word is that there is no such thing as early pulling, because if there are enough people at the point of reaching the spawned hunt target, there's no more of a reason to hold back other than nerves. No matter what someone argues, it should be made a bit more obvious that it's impossible to hold a mob for everyone. Those already at the target are not mind readers, nor can be made possibly aware of just how many are hunting a target. Those hunting waver wildly at an inconsistent rate, regardless of the time of day, week, month, season, etc. It is meant to be this hectic for a reason. It's not meant to be a pure luxurious method of farming.

Anyone who argues against this or ignores this point, is obviously deliberately here to make themselves and others, potentially even more frustrated with a subject that should have died well over a year ago.

Balmung is one of or possibly the largest population server. Often there are about 5 full parties actively hunting during peak hour. All these parties are in contact through several hunt linkshells and are actively exchanging information and hunt calls. When a hunt is found by one of these parties, it is called in party/linkshell/shout and every actively hunting party will hear about it within 10 seconds.

This relationship is mutually beneficial. All actively hunting parties will get full credit for 95%+ hunts that spawn. Occasionally an A rank will get killed quietly by a small group/individual but this is rare.

Hunts were adjusted several patches ago to make it much easier to get full credit even with a large number of players present. Just to clarify, it doesn't matter how many people show up even in the busiest time period on the busiest server. If you are in a party who are at the hunt mark, you will almost certainly get full credit.

While there is sometimes a particular FC or individual attempting to cause grief by pulling before anyone else has a chance to get there, it is likely that the hunt will not be pulled until this "train" of actively hunting parties arrive.

If a hunt is pulled with knowledge that the large group of actively hunting parties are on the way, I would say this is inconsiderate. Repeat offenders will be banned from most hunt linkshells and blacklisted by some people. If anyone complains about an early pull when in fact there has been sufficient time since the hunt was first called to teleport to the closest aetheryte and travel to the hunt mark, they will usually be corrected by the active hunters that it was not an early pull.

In summary, it is within the rights of anyone to pull any hunt at any time if they choose to. However, if the early puller is leeching from the community by attending hunts found by others but refusing to share hunts they find personally, they will be excluded from most hunting linkshells and parties. Not only is sharing hunts polite and courteous, it also benefits the entire server.

It's funny, because just last night on Greg an ARR zone S rank spawned during prime time and this happened: I found out through the grapevine, swapped from my gathering class (outside of a sanctuary, so all skills on CD), checked the zone for the nearest entry, ported to Goblet, took an aetheryte to the exit, /sh LFG, mounted and made my way to the spawn and still we stood there for a few minutes for others to get there. Got full credit. This is me leeching and not actively hunting. That's a lot of time waiting for people to get there, when they didn't need to. I wouldn't have cried if I hadn't made it, I know the risk of leeching.

If you're complaining about an early pull, you were too late. It really is that simple.

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Originally Posted by Zigabar

This is me leeching and not actively hunting.

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I wouldn't consider that leeching. I was referring to people who join hunt linkshells/parties with the goal of attending hunts found by other groups, but not sharing hunts they find personally.

Everyone and their mother wants to attend S ranks so naturally some people will hear about it too late and miss out.

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Originally Posted by Zigabar

If you're complaining about an early pull, you were too late. It really is that simple.

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I disagree. If it is pulled so early that it is literally impossible to teleport and run over to the hunt despite the fact that you are actively hunting, you are effective screwing over many people who would have waited and given you time to reach the hunt, had the situation been reversed.

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Originally Posted by OctaviusEvergreen

I wouldn't consider that leeching. I was referring to people who join hunt linkshells/parties with the goal of attending hunts found by other groups, but not sharing hunts they find personally.

Everyone and their mother wants to attend S ranks so naturally some people will hear about it too late and miss out.

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I would consider both leeching. I did absolutely nothing to assist in finding or popping the mark, yet I got credit.

But my post wasn't in response to yours, it was a general response to the topic. Sorry if it seemed that way.

Edit: Also, hi! I used to be in Mooglecake back when I was on Balmung. o/

About the S, don't forget the S don't spawn immediatly and "real" hunters groups are not hunting the same place but little teams on several maps to find the S (that can be true for A ranks when several windows are open). A S hunting team cannot kiil the S alone (at least several HW S need a full Alliance). The ones who come-pull are early pullers. There is something weird to refuse to consider the time needed to come (TP +way to come). Worst : players who find the S rank and team who makes it pop are not necessary the same...

Then, this is fair to wait, not an hour, but 5 real minutes. The people who come pull don't have any kind of excuse. They are early-puller. If they weren't any early-pullers, why people use their pet to pull? Are you sure such pull is fair, is not an early-pull? I got some doubt, you see.

I've already seen players who pull just because they don't want to wait and like to troll other players. Despite the fact they didn't do any kind of active hunt. They were leechers but wanted to bother other people.

It is Poor Etiquette, nothing more.

There is no difference between pulling early and eating the last of the donuts at a meeting.

It is there for the first person with enough balls to grab and take it.

That said, I usually wait for a good group to arrive before I pull, and I leave the last donut alone. The latter because I've probably eaten two by then anyway.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

Then this is fair to wait, not an hour but 5 real minutes. The people who come pull don't have any kind of excuse. They are early-puller. If they weren't any early-pullers, why people use their pet to pull? Are you sure such pull is fair, is not an early-pull? I got some doubt, you see.

I've already seen players who pull just because they don't want to wait and like to troll other players. Despite the fact they didn't do any kind of active hunt. They were leechers but wanted to bother other people.

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Agreed you get those guys who sit in city states watching the hunt linkshells then when a hunt is called they run out to location and pull the second they arrive just to troll.Early pullers will continue to do this because they know people will jump in to save them and pull aggro off early pulls would be considered (people who pull to troll when linkshells don't all report at the instant a hunt is found there are load times because everyone who is actually looking/attempting to spawn a hunt has to make their way to said location. this is an early pull those who pull but didn't do any of the work for it) i also remember people giving pull times and people agreed with them judging pt's add to hunt loc as fair

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

What? Since when are people finding hunts for me? News to me.

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LOL! I must have missed that memo too.

They're so altruistic. It's all for the benefit of others, and has nothing to do with their own selfish desires...Have you ever watched that TV show - Mystery Diners - where they use hidden cameras and actors to smoke out cheating employees at restaurants? Almost invariably the wrong doer will claim that they were only doing it to benefit the business, or as a surprise for the owner, despite the fact that it was obviously all about enriching their own pocket. Every time one of these hunt threads comes up and someone claims that hunt parties are doing this for everyone, I am reminded of the targets of the Mystery Diners...

Hunting Linkshells were made to increase the amount of hunts/per player, one could recieve. You share your hunts because you receive more hunts. At ZERO detriment to you or anyone else. Quid, pro, quo. Win-win.

You want to be a scavanger rather than a hunter? That's your business. But it costs nothing, metaphorically or literally, to help someone out.

In short:
Pro's of early pulling: slightly less waiting around, you still get the items/currency/points
Pro's of waiting 2~mins: More hunters to call out hunts, more incentive to hunt, higher chance of everyone getting seals/tomestones for gear/items/relics, music, mats, achievements... and most importantly - A horde of people not getting pissed off because someone can't wait 2~minutes extra on a 3 day cooldown hunt

2 gil, placed. I won't be needing any change. Thanks for listening, and Hopefully Happy Hunting!

This is a fight between people who think they should be able to exhibit antisocial behavior and not get any kind of backlash from it and people who are more understanding and empathetic.

Selfish people will always defend themselves. Whereas empathetic people will acknowlege the points of the selfish person then try to explain why they should be more understanding.

Are we apes that play dominance games and throw fecies or are we civilized mature human beings?

I mean, it can be rude for sure, but that's why communication is key.
It's real stupid to get mad when you haven't made your intentions clear. People can't read your mind.

That goes for real life too. Y'all make sure to not stand around waiting for someone else to speak up and get offended when someone else takes charge.

"a group of hunters have tracked a large stag, and found it to follow a certain path. If all the hunters work together, they can kill the stag and all eat. If they are discovered, or do not cooperate, the stag will flee, and all will go hungry.

The hunters hide and wait along a path. An hour goes by, with no sign of the stag. Hours pass, with no trace. The stag may not pass every day, but the hunters are reasonably certain that it will come. However, a hare is seen by all hunters moving along the path.

If a hunter leaps out and kills the hare, he will eat. However, it results in the trap laid for the stag to be wasted, and the others will starve. There is no certainty that the stag will arrive; the hare is present. The dilemma is that if one hunter waits, he risks one of his fellows killing the hare for himself, sacrificing everyone else. This makes the risk twofold; risk the stag never coming, or risk another man taking the kill."

I'd personally define an "early pull" as someone pulling after others have clearly made it know that they're still on the way to the hunt in shout chat. People shouldn't be getting mad if the hunt gets killed before they reach it but didn't let anyone know they were coming.

But really, the fault doesn't lie solely with the puller, as the other players could hold off/slow their DPS if they know others are coming. It's not like one tank has any chance of depriving a whole mob of people of their hunt credit and a single DPS will get killed by the boss rather quickly if no one else jumps in to take aggro.

I have to deal with this a lot being one of the few players who actively spawns/calls S ranks on Cactaur, and people generally are willing to wait a few minutes, though there's often one of those guys who pulls the boss the moment they arrive to get it over with and/or irritate the people who frown on such behavior.

someone hang the guy that bumped this dead old thread...

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Originally Posted by Furiea

someone hang the guy that bumped this dead old thread...

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Reticle the topic;

Necroposting contentious threads - is it wrong?