Things that make you cringe?

Yellow is a pretty underserved color palette in the dye system. Kind of cringe more people don't utilize it, and also cringe that we have so few vibrant orange tones.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Yellow is a pretty underserved color palette in the dye system. Kind of cringe more people don't utilize it, and also cringe that we have so few vibrant orange tones.

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When I first made my main, I planned for her to have a primarily yellow/orange color scheme, but that went out the window real fast. I've been working with gold a lot more lately, but even then I find myself relying more on items that have gold in their base color scheme.

If more than half the things that make you cringe involve "females" and how they dress, you might have some internalized issues you should really work on.

What in the everliving hell did I just read? This thread as I whole I mean.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

If more than half the things that make you cringe involve "females" and how they dress, you might have some internalized issues you should really work on.

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I think most of the people in this thread have some internalized issues they need to work out considering people are literally witch hunting the guy. Pathetic really.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Pathetic really.

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Yes, yes, you said that already. You're better than everyone, we get it. Thank you for your contribution, Lahabrea.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...49/599/425.jpg

Honestly, everyone, including those defending the guy, are making mountains out of molehills. His post was dumb but not brigade worthy, I doubt the other person who posted it on twitter thought it would be such a big post, they probably shouldn't have posted it honestly, but at the same time when did harassment come into play? He's made no mention of people bothering him in game or anything, the replies to the twitter posts being "nasty" basically amount to "what a bad take, look my character I don't care what he thinks, he has an ugly glam too" which is kind of what he also did in the first place?
Like if someone HAS tracked this guy down in game to give him shit that's a big nono and I wholly condemn that, but that hasn't seemed to be the case, not to mention people are straight up posting misinfo here like saying "4channers are planning to harass him", I looked through all the /xivg/ threads on /vg/, no one even posted the forum post until *after* it was pointed out no one did in here, which it got a few sarcastic replies agreeing with him and calling him "based", and was soon forgotten. I wouldn't doubt it was someone looking at this thread who did finally post it on /xivg/ hoping they would make a big deal out of it just to help drum up more drama.

This whole thing is really people on both sides of this argument really wanting to build up the drama, and then you wonder why twitter accounts that post stuff from these forums exist. If I feel bad for the guy it's not just because the twitter posts at this point. You're all really just helping perpetuate this guy staying in the conversation regardless if you're being critical of him or defending him at this point. Let it go, let it rest, people will forget in less than a day as long as people just leave it be, if anyone actually goes after him he's entirely in the right to report them.

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Originally Posted by CeruleanArc

(Continued from https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5831713 )


Who gives him that right?

Why do the people who disagree with him not have the same right?

I find it kind of amusing when people regurgitate culturally-specific norms and idioms like they're universal rules that apply to all species in the universe at all times. Amusing, but in like a tragic way. Kind of like the time I got into a car accident with this guy who ran a stop light and I broke my hand without it having impacted anything. Like, wtf, hand? You broke because you got nervous or something? (It was probably the strength with which I held onto the wheel to keep from being moved by the force of the accident, but still. Weird, and lol, but also ow, and sad face.)

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freedom of speech and all that. I never said people can't disagree, so I dont get your point? I just found it amusing that so many people got so hurt by his post, that they had to start spew personal insults, and stalk the guy. I assume its people who does the very thing thing he dislikes (which in my experience from playing the game is a very large portion of the playerbase too), so they feel personally insulted for ??? reason. These days you can't open your mouth without offending some group of people.

Spewing hate towards him or his glam is not disagreeing. its being a butthurt child

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Originally Posted by Zysets

-snip-

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It's not misinformation. It's there and a little of everywhere. See this comment:

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Originally Posted by TattoedEnigma

Saw this thread posted on twitter, Reddit, and linked in like 6 different discords

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As for tracking him out and harassment. We literally had a Lalafell openly admit two hours ago on this thread that they targetted him because it's fun. Willing and happy to get banned over it.

Can we stop pretending like things are being exaggerated when the information is right in front of us.

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Originally Posted by Gullis

freedom of speech and all that.

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I'm guessing you're from the United States. So, first, this game was developed in Japan.

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Article 21 of Japan’s constitution prohibits censorship and protects freedom of “speech, press and all other forms of expression,” as well as the “secrecy of any means of communication.” In general, individuals and the media can exercise this in practice, though social and legal constraints exist.

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For example,

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the Customs Act prohibits the importation of books that are “detrimental to public security or corrupt public morals.” However, this concerns freedom of speech as the right to receive information from foreign books in Japan. Moreover, in local ordinances, there are statutes that regulate “harmful books”—books that are obscene, cruel, or promote crime (ordinances regarding “the Healthy Development of Youths”)—and the sale and means of sale.

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Second, even in the United States, the so-called bastion of free speech (for the bigoted, specifically),

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free speech is not absolute – US law does recognize a number of important restrictions to free speech. These include obscenity, fraud, child pornography, harassment, incitement to illegal conduct and imminent lawless action, true threats, and commercial speech such as advertising, copyright or patent rights.

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Originally Posted by Gullis

I never said people can't disagree, so I dont get your point? I just found it amusing that so many people got so hurt by his post, that they had to start spew personal insults, and stalk the guy.

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I figured you might not have gotten it, given your response. I'll elucidate.

People got hurt by his post because it was hurtful to many people. Many, many people. Numbering at least in the hundreds, given how far the post has spread. Most of these people were women, which makes sense, since his post mostly addressed them and feminine men. You may not find that significant, but that's your problem, not mine.

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Originally Posted by Gullis

I assume its people who does the very thing thing he dislikes (which in my experience from playing the game is a very large portion of the playerbase too), so they feel personally insulted for ??? reason. These days you can't open your mouth without offending some group of people.

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Aw man! You almost got to the point where you experienced empathy for people unlike you, but ya backed away from it.

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Originally Posted by Gullis

Spewing hate towards him or his glam is not disagreeing.

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This is a problem with your perception. You don't see a problem with what he said, so you don't identify it as hate. You have a problem with what we said, so you do. In the world of psychology, we call this bias, and bias not a good source of information for anyone.

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Originally Posted by Gullis

its being a butthurt child

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I want you to think about this statement, and ask yourself how amusing you would actually find a butthurt child. Because that would say a lot about you. Me, I tend to think children should never be anally raped, and when it happens all too often in the United States I get really upset about it, but I guess I'm one of those crazy people who spew hate, so...you know...

*rolls eyes*

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Originally Posted by CeruleanArc

Yes, yes, you said that already. You're better than everyone, we get it. Thank you for your contribution, Lahabrea.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...49/599/425.jpg

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Flattery will get you nowhere.Never said i was better than anyone though, it seems like you’re projecting and insinuating because i disagree with some of the aggressive comments made by many posters in here. Personally, i think people need to stop trying to name call or label someone based on a social media interaction. It just makes you(not specifically you anyone in general)look childish, as we know nothing about each other irl.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

It's not misinformation. It's there and a little of everywhere. See this comment:

As for tracking him out and harassment. We literally had a Lalafell openly admit two hours ago on this thread that they targetted him because it's fun. Willing and happy to get banned over it.

Can we stop pretending like things are being exaggerated when the information is right in front of us.

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It being shared in private discords and stuff isn't harassment, it's people sharing the post, and the Lala never said anything about stalking him in game, they were talking about posting here to rile people up not caring if they get banned on the forums, I saw the post you're talking about. But they were openly and admittedly just trolling all of you.

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Originally Posted by GucciVerm

Well yeah, it's true, this wouldn't be okay if it mattered and real harassment would be pretty messed up to be on the receiving end of. But at the same time, does anyone actually care about what happens on a game/forum?
Like, I know I'll get banned and just go back to whatever I was doing, as I'm sure Mr. Conviction Catboy will also do. Nobody's taking this seriously and that's the fun of it.

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I don't think he deserves all the attention but it's nothing that will blow over in a day or two if people just try to stay out of it. Sharing the post isn't harassment, and it is misinfo if people are claiming "the evil hacker 4chan is planning to attack him" when the only people who responded to it on 4chan laughed and agreed and it's been forgotten about for hours, it makes it seem like there's gonna be some big campaign against him being organized or something when there isn't, it's perpetuating drama.

I think this is my favorite thread ever. It's devolved into some bizarre political proxy war between two different groups of people suffering from empathy problems.

One group doesn't understand why the original post was offensive, and the other doesn't understand that the OP of it probably doesn't have the emotional faculties to understand that either.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I think this is my favorite thread ever. It's devolved into some bizarre political proxy war between two different groups of people suffering from empathy problems.

One group doesn't understand why the original post was offensive, and the other doesn't understand that the OP of it probably doesn't have the emotional faculties to understand that either.

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Thinking horrid thoughts to psychically attack the empaths

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I think this is my favorite thread ever. It's devolved into some bizarre political proxy war between two different groups of people suffering from empathy problems.

One group doesn't understand why the original post was offensive, and the other doesn't understand that the OP of it probably doesn't have the emotional faculties to understand that either.

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And everyone else sharing this thread just watching like

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...71/107/fe5.gif

Just lock the thread mods. We're done here.

Y'know what I think is cringe? All the people who are supportive of people dressing female PCs in literal lingere by their own admittal of itbeing for "eye candy". Yet people are calling the guy who said that he doesn't like certain predominately female styles a misogynist.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

And everyone else sharing this thread just watching like

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...71/107/fe5.gif

Just lock the thread mods. We're done here.

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https://c.tenor.com/UmXYOKrI_yoAAAAC/pepe-frog.gif

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Y'know what I think is cringe? All the people who are supportive of people dressing female PCs in literal lingere by their own admittal of itbeing for "eye candy". Yet people are calling the guy who said that he doesn't like certain predominately female styles a misogynist.

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I'm a woman, I like dressing in game that way because there's no way I'd be able to IRL, I'd be too embarassed, it's fun for me in game though, I think it's cute, calling it eyecandy isn't necessarily a bad thing. What else do you call it? I dress my character in revealing outfits because I enjoy how it looks.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Flattery will get you nowhere.Never said i was better than anyone though, it seems like you’re projecting and insinuating because i disagree with some of the aggressive comments made by many posters in here.

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Sir! Sir. I may be projecting--I do think I'm somewhat better than misogynists, which is honestly something of a low bar, as I clear it even with my remarkably low self-esteem serving as a disadvantage--but I insinuate nothing. I happen to have said it very explicitly. :P

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Personally, i think people need to stop trying to name call or label someone based on a social media interaction. It just makes you(not specifically you anyone in general)look childish, as we know nothing about each other irl.

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I think that people with privilege like to infantilize the people they anger with their words and actions because it makes it easier to continue using those words and engaging in those actions if there is no legitimate source of opposition. I find that super gross. Just as Mr. Seymour has the right to have a bad opinion, the people he angered with it have a right to express that anger.

I have ADHD, so I have accidentally angered many people in my life. I find that making fun of angry people and calling them children doesn't make them any less angry. Weird, I know, but it's true. For me, an apology really works best. Like, if I have a shitty opinion--and I have had quite a few in my life--I will sometimes go back and think about it, realize that there are other points of view than mine and maybe I've been an ass about expressing my own, and then I apologize while demonstrating that I know what I did wrong and that I plan to do better.

Surprisingly, this actually makes the angry people less angry. Having learned that, this is now my strategy. It could work for Seymour, too, but I can't say. I'm not actually an apology expert like the folks at SorryWatch, so this is the limit of my knowledge.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

and the other doesn't understand that the OP of it probably doesn't have the emotional faculties to understand that either.

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I actually did consider this! His response to me surprised me. He got what I was saying, so I'm working on faith. Just like Yoshi P and my WoL would.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Y'know what I think is cringe? All the people who are supportive of people dressing female PCs in literal lingere by their own admittal of itbeing for "eye candy". Yet people are calling the guy who said that he doesn't like certain predominately female styles a misogynist.

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https://i.imgflip.com/ifock.jpg

I seriously can't believe people are defending the harassment as "it's just trolling" so that makes it okay? Just wow.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Y'know what I think is cringe? All the people who are supportive of people dressing female PCs in literal lingere by their own admittal of itbeing for "eye candy". Yet people are calling the guy who said that he doesn't like certain predominately female styles a misogynist.

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There's a marked difference in the approach. One is allowing the other person to express themselves and finding enjoyment in it for yourself, and the other is being the fun police and poo-pooing other peoples self expression because you personally don't like it. I don't personally think it's misogynistic just to enjoy other peoples attire or think that it's sexy, where it becomes a problem is how those people treat the people who dress in certain ways.

If you're harassing people dressed a certain way well then; that's messed up. If you just quietly enjoy it, maybe compliment them on their outfit and then move on then can that really be called misogynistic? Can it really be called hatred, prejudice, or aversion to women?

Scummy? Maybe, it really depends on context. Misogynistic? Not really.

Meanwhile the King in Yellow up there's post was about I'd say 70% critical of "Female PCs" dressing in pretty much any way that didn't suit their personal preferences. And then like 10% critical of people expressing their gender identity through male characters in traditionally femme fashion. I'm not out to call this person a straight out Misogynist cause I don't know them, I've never interacted with him beyond this post. For all I know maybe he's actually a female player? Who knows, or really, who cares?

The message that they posted though does present a certain way, the way that they structured those words sort of presents itself in a sort of Misogynistic and possibly Transphobic way. I don't agree with harassment, or calling his glam ugly or whatever, but I do think it's fair to criticize that message for what it was, because lets be honest here the message does kind of have a "I hate women and people who dress like women" vibe to it.

Like I said, based on the one message I don't think the guy is a misogynist, I just think he needs to think about what he says before he says it. Cause that message is not doing him any favors at the moment.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Y'know what I think is cringe? All the people who are supportive of people dressing female PCs in literal lingere by their own admittal of itbeing for "eye candy". Yet people are calling the guy who said that he doesn't like certain predominately female styles a misogynist.

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Not everyone has a sex negative mindset towards sexuality and sexual expression. I love putting myself in revealing outfits for my own self expression and the joys that come in embracing that, but also in pleasing others. I'm glad when others and myself can enjoy it together. This is in no way negative. Sex appeal is not akin to hatred, neither is sexual attraction. People can appreciate me both for my appearance and for who I am beyond my appearance. It's all an expression of who I am either way, and one aspect of me is not mutually exclusive to the other.

If someone isn't into it, that's fine too, we can just be and let be. It's better that everyone can dress how they want than any singular subjective standard be forced on everyone else. We are all different and it would purely be tyrannical for only one's tastes to be allowed. The people who would be at fault are those who are incapable of being tolerant of the aesthetic preferences of another. Tolerance is the cornerstone of a civil society. If we cannot tolerate our differences, we will be at each other's throats before long. So, by all means, dress as conservative as you whim. But, by the same measure, allow your fellow player to be as liberal with their clothing as they whim too. Be and let be.

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Originally Posted by CeruleanArc

I'm guessing you're from the United States. So, first, this game was developed in Japan.



For example,



Second, even in the United States, the so-called bastion of free speech (for the bigoted, specifically),

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Well im not so heyho

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Originally Posted by CeruleanArc

Yes, yes, you said that already. You're better than everyone, we get it. Thank you for your contribution, Lahabrea.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...49/599/425.jpg

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Considering the state of this thread, Lahabrea dropping a big hefty dose of Ultima is just what it needs.

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Originally Posted by CeruleanArc

I figured you might not have gotten it, given your response. I'll elucidate.

People got hurt by his post because it was hurtful to many people. Many, many people. Numbering at least in the hundreds, given how far the post has spread. Most of these people were women, which makes sense, since his post mostly addressed them and feminine men. You may not find that significant, but that's your problem, not mine.



Aw man! You almost got to the point where you experienced empathy for people unlike you, but ya backed away from it.



This is a problem with your perception. You don't see a problem with what he said, so you don't identify it as hate. You have a problem with what we said, so you do. In the world of psychology, we call this bias, and bias not a good source of information for anyone.



I want you to think about this statement, and ask yourself how amusing you would actually find a butthurt child. Because that would say a lot about you. Me, I tend to think children should never be anally raped, and when it happens all too often in the United States I get really upset about it, but I guess I'm one of those crazy people who spew hate, so...you know...

*rolls eyes*

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Yikes. Thats all I can say to all of that.

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Originally Posted by CeruleanArc

People got hurt by his post because it was hurtful to many people. Many, many people. Numbering at least in the hundreds, given how far the post has spread. Most of these people were women, which makes sense, since his post mostly addressed them and feminine men. You may not find that significant, but that's your problem, not mine.[/I]

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Yep. This is the heart of the issue. And while I still do sympathize to a degree (mainly in regards to most of the Twitter shaming and all of the in-game harassment of their FC and maybe their friends) I do think think that they would have benefitted from saying "Look, I said a thing. I'm sorry if I offended people." or something similar. But instead they doubled down, which garners a lot less sympathy from me in general. Normally I can respect someone accepting themselves for who they are and not caring about what other people think, but...not so much in this case. Once something is sent out to the internet, you can't take it back. That goes for anything. Facebook, game forums, Twitter, etc. If something you are about to say has the potential to offend a lot of people, it's usually best to leave it unsaid.

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Originally Posted by CeruleanArc

On the matter of yellow, I must wholeheartedly agree. And so does my bun alt. (More leg than you say you like, but I think we've established that I don't care about that. ;) )

https://i.imgur.com/zikAtQl.png

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That is a bit too much skin for my personal taste, but it's always fun to spot the ever-elusive yellow-clad female character. You look great! ;D

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Originally Posted by CeruleanArc

I want you to think about this statement, and ask yourself how amusing you would actually find a butthurt child. Because that would say a lot about you. Me, I tend to think children should never be anally raped, and when it happens all too often in the United States I get really upset about it, but I guess I'm one of those crazy people who spew hate, so...you know...

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...33/794/34c.gif

I dunno what's even going on anymore.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Y'know what I think is cringe? All the people who are supportive of people dressing female PCs in literal lingere by their own admittal of itbeing for "eye candy". Yet people are calling the guy who said that he doesn't like certain predominately female styles a misogynist.

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You only think that because you're projecting your own views on sexuality and modesty unto other people.
Do you think it's misandry to dress a male character up too because you're into men and want him to be attractive or sexy?
Why do you think that sexual attraction and having fun with it is a negative thing?
Do you think that sexuality is inherently predatory? It's not that serious.

And our characters don't have autonomy of their own it doesn't matter if it's a male or female character of if you're putting them into a tin can or swimsuit they're not real people they're an avatar for us as players.
My character didn't choose to be a Ninja either or what hairstyle she wears she's essentially me in the game.
And why is eye candy that is sexy any different from eye candy that you deem as '' cool '' ( people can think they're both at the same time, you'd prob think my character is sexualized but I think she's badass ).
It's still eye candy it's just eye candy in different ways but it's some of you guys associating it with negativity.
Same with extreme gore and violence like in Mortal Kombat, that is also fanservice but for a different sort of appeal.
Why is that okay but it's not okay to enjoy your character wearing a swimsuit? That is not normal that is something you've been taught and it's not a reasonable and logical feeling.

It's not about someone not liking a style it's about someone projecting their views of it unto other people and also solely having negative thoughts about it on one gender even when it applies to both.
You don't have to be supportive of shit, you can just do what a normal person does which is to simply mind their own business and not have a position on it altogether.
I don't think anyone has ever said that you HAVE to like something, it's about people taking them not liking something and then pestering other people about it.
No one needs your support to glam their character however the hell they want ( which includes a lot of women who glam their character in said ways too ).

And yes that guy was very specifically targeting women and femininity and it went beyond just revealing gear too it went way further than that if you actually read what he said.

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Originally Posted by Seymour_Rainecourt

That is a bit too much skin for my personal taste, but it's always fun to spot the ever-elusive yellow-clad female character. You look great! ;D

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https://images.fineartamerica.com/im...d-archives.jpg

Seriously tho, guys in particular constantly feeling the need to comment on women showing skin is extremely tired and frustrating.
No one cares about it I dunno why people feel like their personal opinion on how people dress is something they need to constantly throw in peoples face and it's ALWAYS done against women.

Edit: As a side note, the devs clearly agree with me here because they have actual rules against pestering others about their glam.
You can get warned or even banned for talking the way about peoples glams like some are doing here, the devs clearly understand and respect that people can play however they want with their characters.

toxic people who bring real life toxic stuff into the game ..

I'm still holding the belief that it was hurtful to so many people because it was intended to hurt many people. Considering his first contribution to the thread was:

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Originally Posted by Seymour_Rainecourt

What about serial killers? ;DS

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Guy fired a bird shot into the forums that included just about everything and anything popular in his post. His post history is sporadic at best, and it's almost entirely replies to this thread now. I have a hard time believing that the subjects and wording weren't intended to get a reaction, because it's just that inflammatory.

Great thread, though. Says cringe on the tin and it sure is that and chips.

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Originally Posted by ToastyKeen

Meanwhile the King in Yellow up there's post was about I'd say 70% critical of "Female PCs" dressing in pretty much any way that didn't suit their personal preferences.

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I wish I could like this eight times.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Did they say the words you accuse them of? Did they say “i hate women”? No? Then youre straw manning. In fact, your entire response to me cries ideology. If you go looking for hate, you will find it. Even in places where there were none until you put it there.
Let’s not pull the whole if the shoe was on the other foot routine. It isn’t. Fact is, you accused them of saying something that wasn’t said. That’s all there is to it

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It's pretty clear they have unresolved issues of some sort with women. You don't post 10 different points and say ONLY WOMEN. Defend them all you like but at the end of the day their post was borderline abusive and just disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

And everyone else sharing this thread just watching like

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...71/107/fe5.gif

Just lock the thread mods. We're done here.

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I second this. This was supposed to be a somewhat fun thread but as usual, it just takes one post to send everything up straight to hell.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I'm still holding the belief that it was hurtful to so many people because it was intended to hurt many people. Considering his first contribution to the thread was:



Guy fired a bird shot into the forums that included just about everything and anything popular in his post. His post history is sporadic at best, and it's almost entirely replies to this thread now. I have a hard time believing that the subjects and wording weren't intended to get a reaction, because it's just that inflammatory.

Great thread, though. Says cringe on the tin and it sure is that and chips.

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Completely unrelated to the topic at hand but I like your character's name :).

Back on topic, though, a lot of people in this thread are just clowns complaining about being at a circus.

Nothing makes me cringe in this game except people doing poorly and being proud of it.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I seriously can't believe people are defending the harassment as "it's just trolling" so that makes it okay? Just wow.

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Actually read my post


I just don't see where the active harassment is, you didn't actually respond to anything I said, and despite clearly responding to me you didn't quote anything I said

Sharing a forum post and someone coming in here to rile people up isn't harassment, that person even admitted actual harassment would be bad, unless Seymour comes in saying someone followed him around in game, tracked down his personal social media, and bothered him and his FC then sure, but the whole thing has just been people talking about it? I will admit it hasn't all be very *good* discussion but hardly harassment until we learn otherwise. It feels like you're intentionally removing context from my reply by not quoting it despite referring to it to make yourself seem in the right. I don't even disagree that a lot of the discussion and attention is unwarranted, I think people should just knock it off and let the whole thing die off, that was exactly what I said before too. Leave the guy alone, he doesn't deserve to get all this attention over a probably badly worded post, but people are acting like there's an active organized campaign against him, there's not, and it means social media drama addicts will move on in a day or so once it gets boring