New Race Announced! The Au Ra

I'm not digging the glued-on looking scales, but I will play with the character creation for these to see how they actually look. Maybe with some options, they'll grow on me.

Why exactly is it sexist for the females Au'Ra to be smaller?

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Why exactly is it sexist for the females Au'Ra to be smaller?

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To be honest, I don't think it is, but then again I'm a man who doesn't really encounter sexism directed towards myself on a daily basis so I couldn't really give you a full, detailed accounting as to why someone feels that way like an earlier poster could. This thread has kind of devolved into "SJWs are destroying the world" craziness though so they've probably just left.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Why exactly is it sexist for the females Au'Ra to be smaller?

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some people get the idea that having them smaller makes them look weaker. but nature tends to choose male or female to be smaller depending on the species but then again I suspect these people think nature is sexist too

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http://oi59.tinypic.com/2wrjh3b.jpg

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So, I'd be one of the first to call out sexism, but really, this doesn't bug me too much. If anything I'm more disappointed that the male version is leaning hard on a sort of overwrought shonen-anime stereotype much like the male miqo'te, and doesn't get to be nearly so elegant as this. Guys can be cutesy in FFXIV (lalafell) and girls can be totally swole (roegadyn) but where's the semi-androgynous prettyboy option?

As for what we've got here: I really like the skin thing for some reason. It adds character -- if anything, I wish they'd gone more heavy on it, though it seems the artists were reluctant to "tarnish" the character's beauty, sad to say. What I'm seeing here is a character who can have a bit of the beastly look of miqo'te girls without the forced anime cutesiness, and a bit of the grace of elezen without those ultra-wierd proportions.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Why exactly is it sexist for the females Au'Ra to be smaller?

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Because...uhh...yeah, that's why! Uhh.

Really though, I don't see anything wrong with it. I personally think it's nice to see a more marked difference between males and females in this race, rather than the usual "slimmer + breasts" that is the normal case (barring Lalafell, but they're the exception). Different horn styles and scale patterns, difference in height and stature--it's nice. Besides, the two tribes look to have a sort of Midlander/Highlander difference, in that the ones are the left appear more...aggressive(?) I guess, while the ones on the right look less so (going by their stances and emotes).

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Why exactly is it sexist for the females Au'Ra to be smaller?

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It isn't. Some people want to make it out to be as such though.

I like the new race. These people that are crying foul really need to realize an important fact...Its not your creation. This is Yoshi's design for a new character, his dream and wishes. Its like getting mad at an artist because he didn't use enough of your fav color in his artwork. This is why we have such a lack of imagination and innovation as it is. People shut down and criticize everything new just because its not what they would have done. I pay a subscription to enjoy Yoshi's game. Not my game. I want to enjoy his creativity, see whats in his head. All these people complaining, just be happy we are practically getting a brand new game in a few months. Calm down. And if you want to change it so bad and disagree with where their "imagination" is taking you, feel free to apply to be on their dev team. other than that, grow up.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Why exactly is it sexist for the females Au'Ra to be smaller?

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Usually when there is sexual dimorphism like this in game races, it is the result of this sort of thinking: "we want the men to look powerful and tough, but we don't want the women to look like that! It is better for women to be small and pretty!"

These races aren't designed by a team of biology majors who were tasked with imagining unique races for their final project; they are made by game designers to appeal to players.

(not speaking for anyone here, just trying to answer this question :) )

I like the Au Ra, and am okay with the gender differences, but IMHO it is silly to disregard why they probably designed them to be as different as they did.

Not long now before this thread gets locked and for good reason. We don't need this garbage spreading to XIV as well.

I don't think "sexist" is the right word choice going on here. Something more along the lines of "fan-service" paints the picture better.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Why exactly is it sexist for the females Au'Ra to be smaller?

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You get quoted a lot.

Honestly, if I saw a game where we had large strapping males and petite demure females and that was it, I could more clearly see the claim, but as it is one raceof six now, while I can still see the claim, I dissagree. Especially since they aren't saying "big males and small females, like nature intended. Remember to get those DotH up ladies." You're going to see these tiny dragon women charging at you from across the frontlines axe at the ready, and you are going to brace for impact.

And Beowulf. Regardless of the merits of your oppinion, your us versus themism and the manner in which you explain it does sort of make you seem coocoo for coco puffs.

In other news, I just realized what game the artists for this race must've been playing when they came up with the look of lady Au Ra.

http://i.imgur.com/EYHHW6n.jpg

Hello again, Crossbreed Priscilla.

Hmmmmm I wonder if that name is taken already on my home server (◔ - ◔ )

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Honestly, if I saw a game where we had large strapping males and petite demure females and that was it, I could more clearly see the claim, but as it is one raceof six now, while I can still see the claim, I dissagree.

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This is a good way to think about it, I agree. :)

And I am really curious to see how big they are next to other races, both height and bulk wise! I guess the males are about Elezen height. So far I am impressed with how they managed to make the males tall and muscular without making them look like beefy slabs of muscular manliness. xD

Just wanna throw this out there....

After this year's anniversary,SE published the FFXIV census data (I could link but I'm lazy). Anyway...for those who think somehow having short ladies and tall men is sexist (it's not but /meh). Keep this in mind, they can actually see what types of characters and builds are currently popular.

The least played/popular race/sex? Female Roes.
Why? Likely because many people find them 'masculine' and 'not cute/sexy' It IS highly possible to create a striking and lovely femme roe....but most people, even if they can do so, prefer the body movements/emotes of the 'cuter/sexier' races.

The most played/popular race/sex? Female Miqo'te
Why? Likely because they are seen as both cute and sexy...flirty and 'curvy' Also tiny. People like their cute/sexual emotes and enjoy their looks.

So why would a dev design a new race, when they have feedback saying what the average player likes, that goes against what is actually popular? IE. A tougher/taller/more rugged female race...when more subtle,girlie, and tiny is what's most appealing to their playerbase. Yes. they are free to make whatever design choices they see fit...but at the end of the day, they are also designing a product to make money....and if current character-choice spreads are any indication, 'muscular men and petite girlie women are what this playerbase prefer.

....and I say this as one of the few,the proud, the Roegadyn.

I have to question the decision about placing the scales at the front of the neck. Personally, I think it makes the males in specific look as if they have no neck, but they could be the the lighting/low quality of the picture. If it were up to me I would have put the scales on the back of the neck.

Still, yay for new race~ ^_^ I still like my fem roeg the best but I'm glad they are adding something new for those that are interested.
Now if they could only fix the butt and clipping problems....>_<

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

I say this as one of the few,the proud, the Roegadyn.

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Represent!

The pics only show one type of alt creation for the new race. Did people forget we can adjust height for both sexes, at least 4 different face types for each sex, and change skin color, etc. We don't have enough info to even say that this is the final build. Hell they might change something else or add something before the expansion releases in spring. The point is we have a choice of appearances that we don't even know what they are for this race yet. I would like for them to maybe add more skin color options. Would love to make some sort or red or blue-skinned char. Or purple....or even more saturated colors for skin and eyes.

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

I have to question the decision about placing the scales at the front of the neck.

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Yeah, something about the "scales" don't quite sit well with me. It looks okay in the artwork, but seeing it in screenshots makes it look like an afterthought feature for them that was slapped on.

The census showed the lack of people playing female roe and a high number playing female miqote showed that people prefer cute/pretty looking female races over the big muscular ones. SE is giving the majority of players what they want another cute female race to play, along with having muscular male race which is also popular.

Census data mustn't necessarily inform design decisions like this one.

If Square-Enix wanted to make something far out of left field, so long as they gave it all due thought and polish, players would receive it on their own terms regardless.

i beg to differ sir, it's like this in most mmorpg, the number of people ready to play a bestial look like race are not that many, most of the player need to be able to identify themself to the character. without forget people will look at them character all the time, they want to have something appealing. look all the day to something ugly will not work.

At least it ain't pandas.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i beg to differ sir, it's like this in most mmorpg, the number of people ready to play a bestial look like race are not that many, most of the player need to be able to identify themself to the character. without forget people will look at them character all the time, they want to have something appealing. look all the day to something ugly will not work.

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Reconsider what I just said. Mustn't. Not doesn't.

They're playing it safe, but they are capable of wilder ideas, and we are willing to receive them, so long as they were smartly designed. They could go way crazier with playable races. They didn't here, and even though it looks good, the general direction of opinion here seems to be that something more off-beat was desired. Not like, straight-up monsters, but something a bit scalier, a bit less poised, a bit more feral.

There is one huge challenge that they're working with that other MMOs don't, though: This game is insanely alt-unfriendly. It's built towards doing everything on one character. Rerolling just to play another race isn't something most people are going to want to do, so instead they knew they needed to make something that people would want to change into.

I'm sorta hoping a lore explanation comes along, even a completely comedic one, that explains why a bunch of adventurers woke up one day to find that they are now a lizard person. >_>

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Originally Posted by Mahri

I'm sorta hoping a lore explanation comes along, even a completely comedic one, that explains why a bunch of adventurers woke up one day to find that they are now a lizard person. >_>

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Like this?

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Legend states that any who drink this mysterious liquid before lying down for the evening will awaken a new man (or woman). Grants you a single opportunity to edit your appearance in the character creation screen upon your next login.

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I love how people assume SE is so easily swayed by public opinion. There's more stuff that people shout and cry and stomp their feet for that SE flatout says no to or ignores, than stuff they actually bother to implement. At the end of the day, they still largely do what they want. Not what you think others want.

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Originally Posted by Felis

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Legend states that any who drink this mysterious liquid before lying down for the evening will awaken a new man (or woman). Grants you a single opportunity to edit your appearance in the character creation screen upon your next login.

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Hmmmmmmmm.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

*Edited*
What I think they should do with the Au' Ra was make one clan/version "elegant and mysterious" then make the other more "muscular" instead of separating it by gender. Granted, that might is exactly what they're doing with the Hyurs (and kind of the Roes)... >w>

I like the scales we've seen, I also think (could totally be wrong) there will be some scale decal options, to move them around and add/decrease the amount you have. Will also likely interfere with some other option you want ;)

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

What I think they did with the Au' Ra was make one clan/version "elegant and mysterious" then make the other more "muscular" instead of separating it by gender. Granted, that might is exactly what they're doing with the Hyurs (and kind of the Roes)... >w>

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seeing these I think I have to disagree with you(sorry about the size, I can never remember the code to resize for thumbs for click through)
http://i.imgur.com/V6IMD60.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/YKkhkql.jpg

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

seeing these I think I have to disagree with you
http://i.imgur.com/V6IMD60.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/YKkhkql.jpg

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Correction, I meant to say "What I think they should do...", not "What I think they did do...". My bad. >w>()

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Originally Posted by jomoru

You do understand the difference between a Lion, which evolved in nature and something made by human beings right? You do understand Au'ra aren't real right?

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So what? Mimesis is a thing...

I'd imagine when they were told to design a lizard/human hybrid, the artistic folks at SE set about researching lizards (I'd hope they have first hand experience with humans) for inspiration and ideas. Doesn't talk long researching lizards to learn that one of the predominant sexual dimorphism's in lizards is size (males commonly being larger than females), so they integrated that. Call it unimportant if you like, but I'd imagine sexual dimorphism's would actually be a pretty important factor when designing a race with both males and females.

Did they have to imitate reality when designing Au'Ra? No, of course not. They did though, and people should get over it.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Did they have to imitate reality when designing Au'Ra? No, of course not. They did though, and people should get over it.

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Because they didn't? I'm kind of sick of people saying "its nature" "its natural" because Au'ra are 100 percent made up. They can pick whatever inspiration they want. There are plenty of species that don't have extreme sexual dimorphism. There are plenty of species where the Female is larger than the Male. This is true among lizards, birds, mammals etc.

So having extreme sexual dimorphism is an ARBITRARY CHOICE. Its also at odds with the current visuals of the game. Now if you think its cool and visual appropriate for the concept then say so. But this whole "NATURE NATURE NATURE" is bullshit.

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Originally Posted by jomoru

Because they didn't?

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I'd love to know how you know what the art team did and didn't take inspiration from when designing Au'Ra.

Au'Ra are 100% made up? Ridiculous. Nothing is 100% made up. When they decided they'd add Au'Ra, they no doubt went "Lets take humans and mix them with lizards", they took two very real things and used that as the basis for creating their fictional race. Again; Mimesis is a thing.

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Originally Posted by jomoru

Its also at odds with the current visuals of the game.

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And what visuals would that be? That existing races have no real sexual dimorphism's? Aside from actually sounding like a good reason to add a race with such differences, it actually makes sense given the basis for existing races. Only Miqo'te are the only other race it would really apply to (since everything else is basically just Human), but sexual dimorphism's in cats are very subtle outside coat colour, which Miqo'te unfortunately don't really have. Big cats would have offered something, but Miqo'te are more than certainly based off house cats and the Japanese Nekomata mythology. All Japanese cat girls are.

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Originally Posted by jomoru

I'm going to go with the idea that they went with the decades of "dragon girl/boy" picks that exist in Anime/manga to draw from as an idea.

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Dragons aren't a real thing, but I'll give you one guess what in nature inspired their design. Protip: Check what Dinosaur literally means before saying that.

Also, there is quite literally a species of lizard called Horned Lizards... OK they took some artistic liberties with the curvature/location of the horns, but that's about it. Were they putting horns in the "correct" place this race wouldn't have hair, which might actually have been interesting but would kind of screw with the whole aesthetician thing.

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Originally Posted by jomoru

Its also at odds with the current visuals of the game.

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Roegaden

/10char

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Originally Posted by jomoru

So having extreme sexual dimorphism is an ARBITRARY CHOICE. Its also at odds with the current visuals of the game.

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really, stand a small Hyur Midlander F or Miqo'te F next to a tall Elezen M or Roegaden M(I think even tall Hyur Highlander M might fit this). if it's at odds with the current visuals it has been there all along. right from the start of 1.0

my point here is if it's such a big deal to you why wasn't that made long ago.
is it because of the fact that it's going to happen for the fist time in a single race/clan setting?

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Originally Posted by jomoru

So having extreme sexual dimorphism is an ARBITRARY CHOICE.

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A sexy choice.
2nd hottest race.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I'd love to know how you know what the art team did and didn't take inspiration from when designing Au'Ra.

Au'Ra are 100% made up? Ridiculous. Nothing is 100% made up. When they decided they'd add Au'Ra, they no doubt went "Lets take humans and mix them with lizards", they took two very real things and used that as the basis for creating their fictional race. Again; Mimesis is a thing.

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In that the only lizards that have horns don't in any way look like Au'ra horns. I'm going to go with the idea that they went with the decades of "dragon girl/boy" picks that exist in Anime/manga to draw from as an idea.

But lets ignore that, lets actually go with your idea that they were all "We need a new race lets look to the natural world in how to build it" so they decided "lizard tail" and "um lets go with antelope horns" and "human body"


Now there are lizards(and antelopes) which have extreme dimorphism. Some that do not. And some even have the females much larger than the males. So any choice about sexual dimorphism is a purely artistic CHOICE. You can't say "it happens in nature" because there is as many counter examples to throw at you.

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And what visuals would that be? That existing races have no real sexual dimorphism's? Aside from actually sounding like a good reason to add a race with such differences, it actually makes sense given the basis for existing races. Only Miqo'te are the only other race it would really apply to (since everything else is basically just Human), but sexual dimorphism's in cats are very subtle outside coat colour, which Miqo'te unfortunately don't really have. Big cats would have offered something, but Miqo'te are more than certainly based off house cats and the Japanese Nekomata mythology. All Japanese cat girls are.

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what's the difference between "human with cat ears" and "human with the sexual dimorphism of bees" your "rules" are fairly arbitrary. There is no mandate in art that one has to completely follow natural rules especially when one mixes and matches.

Now the story has setup that the PC races are in fact some unified entity, "The races of Man" that there is some unity in the PC races in the face of the various beast tribes. SO making a race that goes against that visual does cut into the idea of them having some sort of unity of nature.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

A sexy choice.
2nd hottest race.

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Which to me is a perfectly damn reasonable response. "I like big tall men and petite women" is to me a reasonable statement. Trying to impose some sort of natural explanation in my mind is the crazy part.

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Originally Posted by jomoru

Which to me is a perfectly damn reasonable response. "I like big tall men and petite women" is to me a reasonable statement. Trying to impose some sort of natural explanation in my mind is the crazy part.

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Yet there are others that try to vilify people like that for their choice which leads to having to give a bloated explanation to why they like it.

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Originally Posted by Amiantos

Yet there are others that try to vilify people like that for their choice

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Those people are being rude. Don't pay them any mind.