WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

I've definitely been wondering if there were any bards out there that cared to do there job. I rarely see any bard buffs when a bard is in the group, in the situations you would expect to. And just like what others have experienced, in CT2, you get a huge sample size of this. I'm not sure if everyone(the BRDS) are waiting for someone else to do it/use songs or what. Maybe its some kind of Mexican stand off, IDK. It's like having a bad tank that doesn't hold hate, or a bad dps that doesn't know their rotation. But with brds for some reason there is a LOT more of them that don't sing. I can see there's a lot of good bards in here taking offense possibly to this situation. It's not the failing of players to understand the situations bard should sing. It's simply that there is a huge amount of bards that just don't, whatever the reason may be. There certainly will be other players that don't know/understand when a bard should sing, but that's a small number, and if you have ever done another class besides BRD in DF, you should know that this situation is real. If you haven't played any other job outside BRD, then you don't know what is going on I'm afraid.

My favorite ST run was having 12 Casters, 2 BRD, 1 DRG.

Not. One. Foe Requiem.

Not one. :c

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I don't mean don't revive them after their first death, but after the 3rd time there's no longer a point to it, you KNOW they're going to die again.

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Have overlook that. You are right. Just count out the poor people that are being put out of Gaol just over plumes or worse ;)

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Originally Posted by Velox

My favorite is when people try to justify that Bard isn't a support job. Bards are archers with access to unique support abilities you learn through the job quests. This makes them a support job. Saying it isn't a support job is the same as saying Scholar isn't a healer. I mean, the same logic applies right? SCH only gets its healing abilities through the job quests...so logically it's still a DPS role since the majority of the class skills are DPS-oriented.

And the fact that they are labeled as a DPS in-game only exists to appease the need for the trinity set-up, and they are closer to that than either a Healer or a Tank. I know people are looking for a PURE DPS job, but you'll have to wait until Ranger is released (whenever SE decides to implement it, which I believe will be sometime after 2.6)

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As a Bard, who has no problems "singing" ... we're DPS. The songs are VERY situational, rarely used, or even needed most of the time. A support class usually has more than a handful of buffs which actually make a decent impact on the battle, not just to buy a few more seconds after too many screw-ups during a fight results in 'oom'. People wouldnt be arguing over 2/3's the songs usefulness being worth the 20% debuff if Bards were a support class, it'd be a pretty clear win.

The only reason Bards even continue to be "Bards" (ie. continue to have buff songs) is because Yoshida and his team were too effing lazy to make it a proper Archery class like Marksman, or Ranger. So all they did was buff the DPS and called it a day ... thats it, they couldnt even be bothered to remove that stupid-ass, piontless, out-of-place LB which no Bard ever uses. So no, Bards WERE a support class in 1.0... theyre DD now.

A good brd checks his party often and sees if foe/ballad/paeon are needed. Even in Frontlines a lot of brds forget to foe in there, sometimes its why my team ends up winning 1v1 fights...on sec thought, forget about singing in Frontlines >.>

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Originally Posted by Ichimaru

A good brd checks his party often and sees if foe/ballad/paeon are needed. Even in Frontlines a lot of brds forget to foe in there, sometimes its why my team ends up winning 1v1 fights...on sec thought, forget about singing in Frontlines >.>

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lol, thanks for the tip! mwhahahaha. Actually, yeah I don't do brd very much in FL but I do admit that when I do, I forget to use foe or just don't think of it because I'm busy trying to kill off the healers and keep them silenced. I do have to remember to at least use it in FL.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

My favorite ST run was having 12 Casters, 2 BRD, 1 DRG.

Not. One. Foe Requiem.

Not one. :c

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Let's leave ST and CT out of any job comparison, since you are almost guaranteed that at least 1/3 of the alliance members are going to be horrible at their job :p

Most people, including myself, play Bard because it's the range dps they enjoy most. Too many pet peeves with Summoner and Black Mage. I didn't play Bard to sing but I will if need be. But singing isn't my top priority. I care more about dealing good dps than singing. And often times I may not agree with the use of a song when I feel dps is more important.

You guys must be getting the exact opposite CT groups than I've dealt with, I've had multiple runs on my bard where i had to stop req early because another bard used it at the same time as I did.

That said songs a lot of times can be a judgement call, and it never hurts to ask for a song if you're going to need it. Everyone has mana cd's they should be using, and the bard can't tell if yours is up. Having 1500 mana and shroud coming off cd in 10 seconds is a totally different situation than having 1500 mana no shroud and knowing you're about to have to cast medica 2.

Also keep in mind what's going on in the arena before you start yelling. I had a white mage start cursing me out for not getting him ballad seconds after he died and got rezzed, but I was also kiting a renaud at the time and didn't really have 3 seconds to stand still. Fight awareness is key, and most bards are going to try to avoid using ballad at point when burst damage is key, especially if it looks like you have enough to make it to the next phase when it would be safer for them to cast.

As for req I usually open fights up with req (especially in ct/st, coil it depends on the fight and where we need the extra dps), mid fight foe's it's going to depend a lot on group makeup and how good our group seems to be. If we have more than one bard I usually will feel safe using it a second time, but if I'm the only bard I'm probably not going to want to drain my mp in case healers need it for ballad, especially if there are people getting hit by things they shouldn't, or rezzes going out.

I blame it on the fact that I don't main bard. When I do stuff as bard, I'm pretty good about Mage's Ballad, but I forget about Foe's Requiem sometimes. If you ever party with me on bard, just remind me to put up Foe's Requiem. :)

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

I care more about dealing good dps than singing.

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http://i.imgur.com/rue1t.gif

I've noticed a lot of deleted comments. o.o
I would suggest this topic be deleted or locked, I'm sure a few have gotten
the ban hammer lol.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

Selfish player that doesn't understand their job detected.

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How is she selfish if she said she would play a song if needed lol.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Most people, including myself, play Bard because it's the range dps they enjoy most. Too many pet peeves with Summoner and Black Mage. I didn't play Bard to sing but I will if need be. But singing isn't my top priority. I care more about dealing good dps than singing. And often times I may not agree with the use of a song when I feel dps is more important.

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Selfish player that doesn't understand their job detected.

Some bards don't sing because they prefer to play the bow class than the harp class. Can you blame them? SE should've given archer 2 jobs like they gave arcanist 2 jobs at launch.

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Originally Posted by meJojo

Some bards don't sing because they prefer to play the bow class than the harp class. Can you blame them? SE should've given archer 2 jobs like they gave arcanist 2 jobs at launch.

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But they didn't separate the jobs. So why refuse to do something that's an integral part of the job?

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Originally Posted by Dwill

How hard is it to play your job properly and just look at the group and judge which songs benefits which situation ?

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Just stop being lazy, have some initiative and sing when it's needed, simple as that.

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can't see TP.

Shroud of Saints/Aetherflow, i don't know when you've used it or not. i play healer, just because the MP bar is low doesn't mean they need or want Ballad.

can't keep Foe up all the time, i can use Battle Voice when you pop Raging Strikes if you tell me to.

why is communicating so hard for people? who is the lazy one?

How hard is it to request a song? . . .


. . . .well, than again, just saying something like "Bok" in alliance chat seems like a big ordeal to you people so I can see how this can be a problem. . . .

About as hard as it is to ask for a provoke/overpower/flash, or a cure/esuna/leeches. Oh wait you don't have to ask for those often do you. You might, but I bet not nearly as often as your having to ask for songs.

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Originally Posted by CSX

How hard is it to request a song? . . .

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The job is called "bard" not "radio DJ". Sing sing sing.

You people are comparing Classes/Jobs that have Support/Tanking tools as 50%-90% of their Skills vs a Class/Job that has 95% DPS skills (2 support skills 1 Supportive offense skill. . .). . .Okay. . .


It's called BRD because SE are a bunch of specials, why would you introduce a DPS class, give it 3 support skills and call it a full on Support class mid level. . .I mean Really? atleast make it 50% support skills.

It's not the "bad BRD's" fault, it's SE's Fault.

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Originally Posted by CSX

You people are comparing Classes/Jobs that have Support/Tanking tools as 50%-90% of their Skills vs a Class/Job that has 95% DPS skills (2 support skills 1 Supportive offense skill. . .). . .Okay. . .


It's called BRD because SE are a bunch of specials, why would you introduce a DPS class, give it 3 support skills and call you a full on Support class. . .I mean Really? atleast make it 50% support skills.

It's not the "bad BRD's" fault, it's SE's Fault.

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So because it doesn't have more support abilities , you won't sing unless forced to? Sounds like a "bad bard" to me

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Originally Posted by CSX

It's not the "bad BRD's" fault, it's SE's Fault.

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I agree. It's NOT Bard, it's more akin to Ranger. Why they named it Bard is beyond me.

Remove the pointless DPS decrease during Ballad or Paeon and more Bards will sing more often.
Also, a thread like this will hardly encourage Bards to sing more. The title itself makes that clear already.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

So because it doesn't have more support abilities , you won't sing unless forced to? Sounds like a "bad bard" to me

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Point is people forget they have those 3 skills when their entire hot bar slots are filled with DPS skills, in their minds they're playing a DPS class. Just remind them, not that hard. . .

Well, paeon and ballad are crutches in most situations. A good party only needs foe (T8 excluded). That's the problem with labeling bard as support. Aside from foe, it's only support when somebody screws up. Which means if nobody screws up then no support is needed. Bard is a back up support for when things get sticky. If a healer continually needs ballad then either they're bad or other people are bad. Playing ballad frequently is encouraging/enabling people to continue being bad.

And of course there are exceptions for extreme scenarios like single healing content meant for two. But I'm talking about general encounters.

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Originally Posted by Drako

About as hard as it is to ask for a provoke/overpower/flash, or a cure/esuna/leeches. Oh wait you don't have to ask for those often do you. You might, but I bet not nearly as often as your having to ask for songs.

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BRDs can't see when a DPS is low on TP, tanks can see when they are losing hate, healers can see when someone is low on HP or has a debuff.

if a healer is low on MP, they can help themselves with their own abilities. healer casting leeches is not a detriment to their role, you want BLM/SMNs to be casting Physick on themselves?

those aren't the same things, try to understand party roles better.

sometimes good tanks do communicate to off tanks when they need a tank swap early. i definitely do it for Spiny in Garuda EX whether the other tank needs to be told or not.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Most people, including myself, play Bard because it's the range dps they enjoy most. Too many pet peeves with Summoner and Black Mage. I didn't play Bard to sing but I will if need be. But singing isn't my top priority. I care more about dealing good dps than singing. And often times I may not agree with the use of a song when I feel dps is more important.

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If DPS is important for you, you should use Foe Requiem if you have casters in your party. (Which I hope that's an "I'll use it if needed" situation for you) That doesn't decrease your DPS at all and even though the MP consumption of that skill is really high, it increases the overall damage done by all magic users, WHM using holy included. Using it on big pulls with the conditions I mentioned above or during a boss fight will actually help YOU as well.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

But if there's a summoner in the group, priority for raises goes to them. Summoner is all honestly is just about as much support as Bard.

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I, however, agree with this. We always want to take care of our healer's MP and wasting MP due of several raises is something we like to avoid by having a SMN with us.

Healers have shroud which regens MP and if they use it effectively, MP won't be an issue unless they have to keep raising people. But if there's a summoner in the group, priority for raises goes to them. Summoner is all honestly is just about as much support as Bard.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

If DPS is important for you, you should use Foe Requiem if you have casters in your party. (Which I hope that's an "I'll use it if needed" situation for you) That doesn't decrease your DPS at all and even though the MP consumption of that skill is really high, it increases the overall damage done by all magic users, WHM using holy included. Using it on big pulls with the conditions I mentioned above or during a boss fight will actually help YOU as well.

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Foe has nothing to do with this since it doesn't penalize you for playing it. "Use it if needed" refers to a healer being dangerously low on MP or was just raised.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

But if there's a summoner in the group, priority for raises goes to them. Summoner is all honestly is just about as much support as Bard.

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i expect most good SMNs to have used Swiftcast to improve their DPS. Raises goes to whoever has Swiftcast up next or a healer that can get away with hardcasting it without letting someone else die.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Foe has nothing to do with this since it doesn't penalize you for playing it. "Use it if needed" refers to a healer being dangerously low on MP or was just raised.

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Since you didn't mention an specific song in your post, we can assume that you won't use Foe either. And I just mentioned in my post you quoted, I know about Foe doesn't decrease your DPS. Don't take this as an offense, but it's important to be clear when you give an opinion, if you say "if needed"; you should detail "when is needed" and "why is needed", for example. This helps to avoid confusion, because you're giving complete info and there're no empty spots in your statements.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

Since you didn't mention an specific song in your post, we can assume that you won't use Foe either. And I just mentioned in my post you quoted, I know about Foe doesn't decrease your DPS. Don't take this as an offense, but it's important to be clear with you give an opinion, if you say "if needed"; you should detail "when is needed" and "why is needed", for example. This helps to avoid confusion, because you're giving complete info and there're no empty spots in your statements.

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I've posted numerous times in this thread. Not my fault if you only read one of those posts and got the wrong impression.

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Originally Posted by CSX

Point is people forget they have those 3 skills when their entire hot bar slots are filled with DPS skills, in their minds they're playing a DPS class. Just remind them, not that hard. . .

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Never mind the fact they had to go through the job quests to get them

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

Since you didn't mention an specific song in your post, we can assume that you won't use Foe either. And I just mentioned in my post you quoted, I know about Foe doesn't decrease your DPS. Don't take this as an offense, but it's important to be clear when you give an opinion, if you say "if needed"; you should detail "when is needed" and "why is needed", for example. This helps to avoid confusion, because you're giving complete info and there're no empty spots in your statements.

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Thank you for saying this good god..

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

I've posted numerous times in this thread. Not my fault if you only read one of those posts and got the wrong impression.

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You are such a robot I swear, always so condescending even when admitting your own faults.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

Never mind the fact they had to go through the job quests to get them

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The job quest that are all about DPSing, not singing.

Until bard isn't listed as a dps role, (because currently it's qued as a DPS job) they have no obligation to play a pug group a song. They're there as a dps job.

And those who think bard dps isn't even that good at dmg compared to the other jobs, you're right. That's how ffxiv built their damage output, but fact is a bigger number of people who play bard well, are getting higher numbers than blms/smns/monks/Dragoons. (From most of my experience with 4-8-24 man content at least.) Most bards are doing more damage than other damage dealing jobs because they know how to play their job. They're not counted as a support job.

What you're trying to do is make your opinion a fact that's justified to people who are playing their jobs correctly and the way the game system classifies them as. It's not like asking a WHM to use medica because their job is to heal. If you have time to type out a thread about them not playing music, then you have plenty of time to type and ask for a song, at least in Sycrus Tower or 4 mans where healing/dpsing/tanking is a friggin joke and have plenty of time to stop what your doing and type. Can you give the good arguments on this thread a semi-decent response rather than another fking gif you uncreative garbage. I may sound angry, but honestly the way you come off as is like a total idiot..

As a dps, consider it lucky you even get a song from us when in a pug. Songs are a benefit, not a luxury that you will always have, and as a dps job they can choose to play a song or not over being a support.

Bard's damage isn't that much worse and often times, better, because to do better, you have to be a really good player.

An average caster/melee isn't going to outdps a good bard. But a good caster/melee could.

I'm almost always top dps in trial roulettes as a bard

I'm not even the best bard around. There are bards at the same ilevel as me that can do 10-20 more dps.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Bard's damage isn't that much worse and often times, better, because to do better, you have to be a really good player.

An average caster/melee isn't going to outdps a good bard. But a good caster/melee could.

I'm almost always top dps in trial roulettes as a bard

I'm not even the best bard around. There are bards at the same ilevel as me that can do 10-20 more dps.

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Yes this is what I mean in my post above yours, most bards are just good-skilled as their dps because rotations and moving is easy, so they have every right to play their job as a dps role over a support role

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Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl

Yes this is what I mean in my post above yours, most bards are just good-skilled as theirdps because rotations and moving is easy, so they have every right to play their job as a dps role over a support role

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So why not sing and add more utility to the party if bards have one of the easiest rotations and can move freely?

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Thank you for saying this good god..



You are such a robot I swear, always so condescending even when admitting your own faults.

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Fault? What fault? You're being the condescending ones to think a bard doesn't know what foe does. That is common knowledge at this point. Also, my entire argument was based on "dealing good dps" so why the urge to bring up foe? Obviously, foe is excluded because it doesn't lower my damage. Trying a bit too hard to be antagonistic there.