I hope this game doesn't become like FFXI

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Demons'/Dark Souls? But even that isn't too difficult by old-school standards... Nothing today is even close to Ninja Gaiden I, TMNT, or Castlevania I for NES.

On FFXI,

Personally, I liked the difficulty of the CoP battles back before the multiple nerfs. It really meant something in the game to have access to Sea/Limbus/etc.. Even getting to Tavnazian Safehold was a neat achievement after slogging through the Promyvians.

I'd say the closest thing to that difficulty would be Raven Nevermore and Ifrit Extreme fights. But even then, CoP had much more of a 'luck' factor in some of those battles (Snoll fight took me 9x *shudder*)

From what I see, ARR will be much more approachable at early levels and will scale more smoothly in difficulty as you approach endgame. Although, we don't know exactly how the devs will use level synching (or capping, even) in dungeons.

Sadly, many of use are too busy to actually spend the amount of time it takes to work through an old-school FFXI time-sink, and Yoshi-P understands this.

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http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6t60dmHcz1rofsbj.gif

/duck

http://www.failkittah.com/wp-content...punch_fail.gif

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I agree, since constantly dying must be the only definition of "challenge" lol.

You do know outside of burn setups and supertanking DM was indeed one of the more challenging BCNMs in that game, right? Though I'm sure you probably also would say Kirin wasn't a challenge when it was in it's prime either. Nothing is a challenge as time goes on. That's logical.

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DM was really easy if you were any good at the game beat it on the first attempt, in the first week it was out, used the 4 tank kite in halls strat. For people who just rush in without any sort of plan and wipe I can see it being hard, but if you were organized it wasn't much of a challenge at all.

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Originally Posted by Seven months

Seven months

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Seven. Months. And one year.

You...you.

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Originally Posted by Cxplorer

I really hope that this game doesn't become like FFXI. I hate Final Fantasy XI with a passion!! That game was too hardcore!!!

Otherwise I quit this game for good!!!

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I've never played FFXI, but I've heard a lot of good things about it. In fact, I'd definately try it if not for the fact that I make it a point to never play more than one P2P mmo at a time. I like a little hardcore flavor in my mmo soup. It adds spice. :)

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Seven. Months.

You...you.

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19, check your math. http://cdn3.sbnation.com/profile_ima...lface_tiny.jpg

And I hate making new, redundant threads ;)

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DM was really easy if you were any good at the game beat it on the first attempt, in the first week it was out, used the 4 tank kite in halls strat. For people who just rush in without any sort of plan and wipe I can see it being hard, but if you were organized it wasn't much of a challenge at all.

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I had to do it in a pickup PT. We failed quite a bit, but it was one of the most memorable. entertaining and chaotic fights I've ever done. I really had a sense of accomplishment when I finally got my ring~

Conversely, the Ix'Zdeis (4x Pot) Boss in CoP 8-3 'When Angels Fall' was a nightmare to get help for. It took forever just to reach them :/ Hopefully ARR will be free of excessive traveling time sinks like that.

*disclaimer: All FFXI CoP missions were accomplished pre-nerf (ie, back when you lost exp in boss battle deaths)

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Originally Posted by Cxplorer

I really hope that this game doesn't become like FFXI. I hate Final Fantasy XI with a passion!! That game was too hardcore!!!

Otherwise I quit this game for good!!!

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Don't let the door hit your rear as you leave and all that.

Why did someone fall for reanimating a dead thread again?

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

19, check your math. http://cdn3.sbnation.com/profile_ima...lface_tiny.jpg

And I hate making new, redundant threads ;)





I had to do it in a pickup PT. We failed quite a bit, but it was one of the most memorable. entertaining and chaotic fights I've ever done. I really had a sense of accomplishment when I finally got my ring~

Conversely, the Ix'Zdeis (4x Pot) Boss in CoP 8-3 'When Angels Fall' was a nightmare to get help for. It took forever just to reach them :/ Hopefully ARR will be free of excessive traveling time sinks like that.

*disclaimer: All FFXI CoP missions were accomplished pre-nerf (ie, back when you lost exp in boss battle deaths)

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Stop trying to pick up conversations well over a year and a half old. Please.
If you're going to raise a thread like this, give it something new.

reminiscing is cool. Making fun of a dumb thread one year later is also cool. It's not like we have that much better to do here anyway.

Besides, I missed this one, and I think it's a gem.

Everyone needs to shut up about game difficulty and realize the only hard part about any MMO is finding the necessary number of group members who can do their jobs properly in order to complete the event. Everything else can be worked through with persistence and a bit of common sense. Seriously, all combat is in any game is "beat on target XYZ and run away from bad stuff ABC." Maybe there's a few gimmicks like "certain people needs to stand in certain positions in order to allow the stars to align and smite the target" but outside of those few instances everything is just a tank and spank.

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Originally Posted by jwang

Everyone needs to shut up about game difficulty and realize the only hard part about any MMO is finding the necessary number of group members who can do their jobs properly in order to complete the event. Everything else can be worked through with persistence and a bit of common sense. Seriously, all combat is in any game is "beat on target XYZ and run away from bad stuff ABC." Maybe there's a few gimmicks like "certain people needs to stand in certain positions in order to allow the stars to align and smite the target" but outside of those few instances everything is just a tank and spank.

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Yeah. MMORPGs are ultimately rather easy games.

I feel that a lot of the people that think they're good at doing something extremely difficult, would rip their hair off when faced with "games" like iRacing for instance.

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

This game needs to be harder in a lot of aspects. Maybe not the longer time-consuming grind that XI was, but they really need to ramp up the difficulty. There is absolutely no sense of challenge or accomplishment for doing anything

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The difficulty will be in the raid like most modern mmo's. take your crap somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by jwang

Everyone needs to shut up about game difficulty and realize the only hard part about any MMO is finding the necessary number of group members who can do their jobs properly in order to complete the event. Everything else can be worked through with persistence and a bit of common sense. Seriously, all combat is in any game is "beat on target XYZ and run away from bad stuff ABC." Maybe there's a few gimmicks like "certain people needs to stand in certain positions in order to allow the stars to align and smite the target" but outside of those few instances everything is just a tank and spank.

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People coordination is one of the hardest things to achieve, in everything, ever had to do a group work? I think that because developers make the encounters easy now days, we should not dismiss how hard we could have it if in raids we had to actually coordinate ourselves in any kind of complex way to be able to nuke a boss.

Also humans learn by repetition, repeat any given task a certain number of things and you will become good at it.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

reminiscing is cool. Making fun of a dumb thread one year later is also cool. It's not like we have that much better to do here anyway.

Besides, I missed this one, and I think it's a gem.

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And that's all well and good, but you don't start off by trying to pick up a conversation 19 months later.

FFXI vs. XIV the hope and dreams . For those who played FFXI as I have enjoyed the challenge of going out with your friends and getting things done. Now with everyone arguing the point if XIV should be more like XI IMO it should take from it what made it unique to the MMO community .Had content that not only took skill but you felt like " Damn that was hell but got it done " and the rewards were satisfying. The way of the MMO is going towards more causal gameplay as opposed to Hardcore and I get it look at other Franchise where its the same games reproduced over and over and made easier and easier.

Now my thought is Please take things to make The game with more challenge

Linkshell admin control panel and /lsmes
challenging content
HNM's (that are unique and yes i know alot of people done want 21-24hr spawns but give us something better then 5min spawns and .01% drop rate )
KSMN best content for causal and solo'ers (who can try to beat it with pick up parties)
BCNM same as above

And the next one IS MY PREFERENCE
GEAR SWAPS even tho i know they wont add this . This element some would say was elitest but IMO it made the player learn what would make their job better i.e. 5 hit sam build , PDT sets for PLD , Nuking /resting sets , fast cast sets list goes on and on this made players use their full potential and not only that made members go out and seek the best .

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Originally Posted by Elexia

XI is currently more casual than WoW is.

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ah well... the gameplay itself isnt more casual than WoW..

that you need to write macros isnt casual.

ungh..

No gear swapping please.

That was one of the things I ended up hating about FFXI. We all have limits to immersion breaking elements in a game. For me, it was seeing your party blink in and out of existence with different gear every time they used a particular skill/WS/Spell. It was rather obnoxious. :(

I think the materia system allows players to better round out their gear for this game so they aren't stuck with single-purpose items like FFXI had.

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

This game needs to be harder in a lot of aspects. Maybe not the longer time-consuming grind that XI was, but they really need to ramp up the difficulty. There is absolutely no sense of challenge or accomplishment for doing anything

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Wasn't it stated that there would be a hard mode for instanced content like dungeons? There would be the regular mode to clear the dungeon and progress through the story, and then a hard mode if you decide you want to take it up a notch and grab some nice loot.

EDIT: So this was about 1.0... FML >_> What is UP with people bumping threads from over a year ago!?

ffxi was a great mmo. you can hate on it and quit, but reality is you will quit this game if it was 100% catered to you too. lets see how long you stay with any mmo and then come back here and say they shouldn't at least try and keep the community of players that would play for 5years without quitting. mmo's aren't supposed to be throw away games. they are meant for you to play for years and years. if you are only logging in twice a week after the first 2 or 3 weeks for 1 content and then quiting till an expansion comes out then the game has not been built right, nor can you even call it a mmo.

simple thing though, you play a mmo any mmo for over 5years without being bored, any mmo. and then we can start to agree with you. at this point even if i don't want ffxi-2 i'd take that in a heart beat compared to what most of you want for this mmo. your gonna kill this mmo just as quick as it died the first time.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

ungh..

No gear swapping please.

That was one of the things I ended up hating about FFXI. We all have limits to immersion breaking elements in a game. For me, it was seeing your party blink in and out of existence with different gear every time they used a particular skill/WS/Spell. It was rather obnoxious. :(

I think the materia system allows players to better round out their gear for this game so they aren't stuck with single-purpose items like FFXI had.

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Like i said Its my opinion on that one so...... Well Materia as i dont know how they will change here how it works Money = best gear
which means if there is good materia and the price would be in the millions so if your someone who can not make money your comment would change in a heart beat .


But with the game having gear swaps and in blinking or w/e
but the meaning was the diversity of equipment and and the lack gear .

Its money or luck = best gear ^^

The hardest thing for any game to do i catering to a wide audience. Games usually pick one core demographic (in this case casual or hardcore) and make a game tailored to them and the games that try, usually fail and lose their entire audience (he who chases two hares catches neither) but I think FFXIV is heading in a great direction and what I've seen so far looks like a game that will be enjoyable for all levels of "gamer"

and to think with just a few tweaks we can have mmo companies catering to all of us http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...icated-Servers lol shameful link to my thread on trying to do so, cater to all of us not just one side or the other. or fail trying to smush us together with lets face it half the content for either of us.

You guys get trolled far too easily.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

You guys get trolled far too easily.

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what he said.

did forget that was FFXI added tough challange link here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI0guIwSJaI FFXI - Legion, Hall of Mul, Attempt #6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_otAkCgFgY Tri Arch Dynamis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yykQeU1WaRM Provenance Wacther
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4m5U_dEOws Umagrhk Meeble Burrows
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyDiSk3-HuY Divine Might Pld solo

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

This game needs to be harder in a lot of aspects. Maybe not the longer time-consuming grind that XI was, but they really need to ramp up the difficulty. There is absolutely no sense of challenge or accomplishment for doing anything

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anything? while i agree the game needs an increase in challenging content (without sacrificing easy and somewhat-challenging content), and while most of the content in XIV is definitely what i'd consider easy (garuda included)... i don't necessarily think a player has earned the right to say there's no sense of challenge or accomplishment when they've objectively done so little in the game.

ifrit extreme was quite challenging, albeit for the wrong reasons. rivenroad hard was challenging for the right reasons. the correct position would be requesting we see more content like that, if not more challenging in 2.0- because while 1.0 certainly lacked in top-end difficulty, the dev team showed encouraging progression in ramping up difficulty in subsequent patches from moogle onward.

perhaps if you'd actually played and experienced the game you'd know. and that isn't necessarily a slight against you- i'm merely pointing out that your argument lacks merit via lack of experience.

I hope it doesn't become like XI either, because quite frankly, right now that game is a joke.

To put it into perspective ... 13-31 in 2 hours.. problem?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I hope it doesn't become a successful FF MMO either, nor do I hope SE doesn't realize what XI did right XIV did horribly wrong :D

While you may hate XI, XIV only exists because of it.

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Actually your way off 14 exists because its needed in the market and SE just so happens to have mmo experience. Final Fantasy 11 was a great investment by SE, but that is not the sole reason on why 14 exists. I mean for the most part the majority of the players will not be from final fantasy ix if ARR is successful. In fact if 14 is to be as successful as any modern mmo then they will have to pick up new and old players from around the world from both mmo's and pc/consoles.

i think even if the game starts off totally not like ffxi, that there is a good chance it will slowly but surely become more and more like it. the game can succeed and keep going as it is *(what ever direction and feel it is or will have), it can be nothing like it and fail ..go f2p. they can decide that it's still those who played ffxi that are still here and move towards making content like that more.

people on these forums have said wow turned back to it's old ways of being more hardcore in it's content now with there expansions. that tells me they need to make content last and that is more important then pleasing even the majority of so called casuals in the game. so yeah there is a chance that it can get more ffxi as time goes by at the very least. ...we can always hope so. though i doubt to that extent. in good taste is always in good taste:)

besides if your staying in a mmo for that long, you'll probably realize or they will realize for you the pace of the players and content being completed and they will have to work with that.

Game needs to look at both XI and WoW (Mainstream). They both have great positives and massive negatives.

Things to take from Mainstream
1) Casual Elements
2) UI
3) PvP Elements
4) Various forms of leveling
5) Functionality (guild features, menu structure, etc)
6) Dynamic events

Elements they need to take from XI
1) Enormous amount of content (different then XI obvious but I want to be able to play this game for 10,000hrs and not get bored)
2) A strong working economy
3) Long term objectives which last over multiple epansions
4) Final Fantasy Elements (the world must feel like a final fantasy... and not the 13 crap)
5) Different size encounters (3man, 6man, 12man, 24man, 36man, 64man) content... give us some variety.
6) Different venues to get the same best in slot endgame gear. (Example Kings and Einherjar, dropped the same gear one was casual one was hardcore. This way they can add things certain groups do not like and it does not screw anyone over)

And the most important thing they need to add original ideas. If they fail they fail, but they need to add things you cannot find anywhere else. Game just has to have enough core content that if a new idea fails it does not crash the game.

I feel like punching my computer when I see threads like this. XIV won't be the same as XI. There is plenty different. They've added achievements for people who like to grind, but judging by 1.0's gameplay it's not nearly as time-consuming to get to level cap than in XI. Truly there are only a few similarities:
* They're both online.
* They both allow players to be all jobs on one character (inventory permitting).
* They are both part of a much larger series and adhere to certain traditions, such as the FF staple jobs like WHM and DRG or the inclusion of crystals in some form.
* They have similar races.

If I missed any other similarities, they're probably moot. It doesn't even matter if they borrow ideas from WoW or other MMOs, either. Who cares where the feature comes from as long as it's fun?

I hope FFXIV not gonne get like FFXI is now. I really loved XI till Abyssea then it lost it's special flair and style. There are multiple aspects from XI that would be cool to see again but some you just can't implement into an MMO nowadays.

I hope they can manage to bring over some feeling from XI without making it into a XI 2.0 cause that would be something that would fail. Game was great 10 years ago but buisness changed and they need to publish a 2013ish game or it will fail again.

Why was this thread bumped?

Nimrac made this thread like a year and a half ago. He popped on every once and a while.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Because FFXI in its EQ-timesink-copying glory would not have held a candle to the likes of rift and WoW.I'm starting to get tired of seeing people say crap like this.

The "challenge" in FFXI was having enough time set aside to get anything done. If you weren't the "right" job you were stuck waiting for hours for a party. Same thing for missions, because everyone went for the "best" and "most efficient" strategies, nevermind how you felt or how you preffered to play a class that due to the developers' screw ups in design turned out to become unpopular. There was no skill involved because all you had to do was stack stats against everything tossed at you by swapping gear mid-combat. And things that are supposed to be features and additional things in the game were designed to be inconvenient to the player to create more timesinks. Timesinks and stat stacking do not make a game difficult.

Now try and tell me why things like Sarth+3, Firefighter and Alone in the Darkness were easymode.

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^That is a silly statement to make. FFXI was a fun challenging game. When CoP came out(best exp ever) it was a challenge to clear the 3 promy area's to gain access to the new area. If you didnt have people that knew what they were doing you would end up doing promy runs for months. Doing one promy run with a set of good people took 45 mins top. But it was a fun 45 mins.

If you play games like DoTa2 where matches can last up to 45-50 mins. those are fun time sinks. That's what FFXI had, a fun challenge that took a reasonable amount of time to complete.

I'll say it again. Gamers this generation have gotten soft. Because it seems only the UO, EQ1, FFXI & DAoC player base want FFXIV to be a fun challenging game. (lucky for us Yoshi love DAoC, he's old school) <--OP and the rest are in for a big surprise.

If it takes an 1hr30mins to run a quest line then so be it. Its all about the journey, and 5 years from now you will talk about that same journey.

I loved how CoP was broken down into missions, chapters. Actually all of FFXI was like that. Bring mission,chapters back to FFXIV.

-Scaling up a mountain side to reach an objective, and if you fell you had to start over again.
-Running the sewer in CoP and seeing the door right their, but it being 1 level up you had to go around the sewer to find the ramp to get to the door.

Awesome design. And I know we won't get it in FFXIV cause they have jump now. unless they make where jumping is just out of reach of a platform.

I said it in another topic. But to keep an MMO going you need to have challenges and time sinks of some sort. Or you game will not last 4 months. That's just the bottom line. I want FF14 to go on for 10 years and have the same feel FFXI gave me. Of adventure and loads of stuff to do, and not knowing were to begin.

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Originally Posted by Amage

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you sig is hilarious, can't stop watching it. That boat owned the crew....lol it how the drive just falls flat on his face. hahaha

Zantetsuken decided to cast Raise on the thread yesterday, and... well, here it is.

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Originally Posted by Rustyhagun

That is a silly statement to make.

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It's even sillier to quote something said by me almost nineteen months ago. Then again, I am bothering to respond to you, so this may be a case of "who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?".

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FFXI was a fun challenging game. When CoP came out(best exp ever) it was a challenge to clear the 3 promy area's to gain access to the new area. If you didnt have people that knew what they were doing you would end up doing promy runs for months.

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You say that as if its a good thing. It isn't when you have people who paid for the damn content and not getting to see it between design and other limitations set in place. Aside from denying people content (in case you forgot, the CoP zones were the least populated zones in the game up until they removed the level caps and made the consummables sellable in the AH), it also split the playerbase, as in their ignorance those who got to Tavnazia and eventually made it to Al'taieu got inflated heads. I still remember the "n0 nubz in MY sea" dribble.

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Doing one promy run with a set of good people took 45 mins top. But it was a fun 45 mins.

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As a concept, I think the promyvions were decent. Execution was severely lacking between the bosses requiring consumables that at the time of release were stupidly ambiguous, no real incentive to get the map as it is largely useless, not to mention the mobs above floor 2 were much higher level than you to the point that (unlike the console FFs) you could not fight your way up. The level cap was probably the worst thing in that deal, as it literally crippled jobs that were dependent on their higher level abilities to function.

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I'll say it again. Gamers this generation have gotten soft. Because it seems only the UO, EQ1, FFXI & DAoC player base want FFXIV to be a fun challenging game.

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Oh, please. I did my time in FFXI. I also did the mother of all grinds in Lineage II and did some RO (another grinder). This isn't about people going soft, and more about the fact that people these days (rightfully) demand better design and better approaches to elongate the life of the game. Design that equates to one mistake costing you several hours of progress, or that is heavily RNG dependent, or that requires specific set ups for anything, will no longer cut it in this day and age. Didn't cut it back then either, but there was little in terms of variety in MMOs.

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(lucky for us Yoshi love DAoC, he's old school) <--OP and the rest are in for a big surprise.

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Yoshida Naoki has also looked at modern MMOs like WoW, Rift, TOR and GW2, and has scared several people here by saying XIV could be "WoW meets Final Fantasy" just like XI was "EQ meets Final Fantasy". All his background with DaoC tells me is that Yoshida knows what has to go into balancing PvP, which I am frankly looking forward to seeing for myself as more info on ARR is revealed.

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Scaling up a mountain side to reach an objective, and if you fell you had to start over again.

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Fun in a single-player RPG. Terranigma and Illussion of Gaia had something like that at one point, if I recall. As did Chrono Trigger with Death Peak. The difference is that the mobs around the mountain were things you wanted to avoid fighting due to being a pain in the ass to fight, unlike the standard mobs in any of the three aforementioned games, where if you screwed up all it meant was that you had to fight your way back up to that spot. You didn't cringe if you messed up in Death's Peak. You cringed, bitched and could even ragequit if you messed up climbing the Cradle of Rebirth. Worst of it is that when you did, you wasted the time of several other players, not just you.

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Running the sewer in CoP and seeing the door right their, but it being 1 level up you had to go around the sewer to find the ramp to get to the door.

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Except that most people just sent someone with stacks of Invis Powder and Sneak Oil to go around, aggro the Taur and have him draw in the whole party over to the boss room.

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I said it in another topic. But to keep an MMO going you need to have challenges and time sinks of some sort.

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No one, past or present, question this. That XIV will have timesinks is pretty damn obvious, as MMORPGs are built around them. The more important issue is whether it'll be timesinks for the sake of timesinks, or timesinks blended within gameplay in a way that the player barely feels it, if at all.

I actually liked the Promys and most of the CoP dungeons/fights.

After beating the Promys and Riverne, I would go back multiple times to help friends through them. The danger of agrro = wipe in the last areas made a trip through them very suspenseful and exciting.

Sadly, there wasn't much danger in 1.0. Lets hope we get some ARR dungeons that require a bit of sneaking around to get through.