If you are a [JOB] without [Ability], you are holding back your team at endgame

Provoke is absolutely necessary if you want to do Turn 2 Coil, quite possibly even Turn 1. Before then, you can probably get away without it.

By all means, if they've released something that shows that provoke actually 'puts you on the top of the list' I'd do that in in an instant. But I'll believe it when I see proof. Why on earth would a level 22 Pally skill generate more threat than anything else in the game? Seems odd.

I love people that state that SCH needs Stoneskin, it's so obvious they don't realize that SCH has built in stone skin on one single target and their AOE spell. But again, this just proves that others that demand a person to get something, does not know how to play the classes, so they dictate others to play they want them to, to pick up their own slack.

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Originally Posted by dinantes

By all means, if they've released something that shows that provoke actually 'puts you on the top of the list' I'd do that in in an instant. But I'll believe it when I see proof. Why on earth would a level 22 Pally skill generate more threat than anything else in the game? Seems odd.

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It does put you on top of the list, just like a taunt from World of Warcraft. This is easily confirmed by Turn 2 bosses which put stacking debuffs on tanks and provoke rotations are required to stop the other tank from taking too many stacks. So yes, it instantly catapults you to the top of the threat list, but you need your warrior skills (and possibly some gladiator skills) to stay there.

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Originally Posted by dinantes

By all means, if they've released something that shows that provoke actually 'puts you on the top of the list' I'd do that in in an instant. But I'll believe it when I see proof. Why on earth would a level 22 Pally skill generate more threat than anything else in the game? Seems odd.

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Provoke evens your enmity with the person at the top of the hate list, no matter who they are, which then leaves you to use your other hate-grabs to keep the mob on you. That's all it does, it does not actually generate any enmity.

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Originally Posted by ArashiDaigon

I love people that state that SCH needs Stoneskin, it's so obvious they don't realize that SCH has...

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Different situations dude. And no one is really saying SCH needs stone skin. I mentioned it, because out of the cross class skills, what are you going to use? It was also noted that in an 8man scenario (w/ WHM) it would be completely null and void, and when I went and replaced the list with a more 'no frills' version I did mention this. I've also been 50 on my SCH for awhile and have been doing 'end game' stuff (not Bahamut's admittedly), so I have a pretty decent idea of how the class/job works. That said, I haven't actually got Stone Skin yet, so I can't really comment on how 'useful' it would be (w/o WHM present). However others have mentioned how limited it's use is on a SCH, and as such, should not 'actively' be pursued or perceived as something required.

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Originally Posted by dinantes

Well yeah. EVERY enmity skill is for grabbing it back. Axe throw grabs it back. They all do.

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Yes, but provoke isn't good for anything else. Provoke only increases your enmity if somebody else has more; it increases your enmity enough to put you at the top of the threat table, but no more. So it is isn't any good at increasing your enmity lead (which all the other tools can do as well), but it's the best at grabbing hate back if you've gotten too far behind.

As a Monk, Blood for Blood from Lancer is a pretty important CD. One which I don't have yet, but plan to obtain soon.

I am a firm believer that if you don't want to level up another class you don't have to.

That said, as a SMN/SCH I can't express enough to ALL casters how insane Swiftcast is. The power and utility contained within this ability has come in handy more times than I can count. It was everything I could hope for in a Support skill and then some. I highly recommend anyone able to pick it up give it a try.

I find little reason to have Eye for an Eye as a WHM. Swiftcast is enough.