Regarding Tera - as far I'm aware, that game caters to a totally different demographic than FFXIV, which is exclusively PVE for the forseeable future. I honestly hand-on-heart do not see that game as any threat to FFXIV whatsoever.
SWOTR, on the other hand, will no doubt take a large chunk out of the potential PC playerbase. If Bioware can backup its claims of a dozen-novels worth of story content with meaningful PVE mechanics (it will have faction PVP too), then FFXIV might (probably) have difficulties pulling in fresh people (who aren't attached to the FF franchise or have played FFXI) due to the strength of the Star Wars IP, and FFXIV's damaged reputation.
Either way, Square-Enix has to pull something extremely special out of the bag if they intend to cater to non FF / FFXI stalwarts, come subscription time.
State of FFXIV as of 4-9-2011
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04-10-2011, 11:45 PMSasse
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04-10-2011, 11:49 PMBetelgeuzahDo they need to? Honestly. Their fanbase has 10-15 million people. And that isn't even counting China. If only 20% of those people play this game, the game is a massive success. Leave the MMO masses that hop from game to game for other developers to cater to.Quote:
Either way, Square-Enix has to pull something extremely special out of the bag if they intend to cater to non FF / FFXI stalwarts, come subscription time.
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04-10-2011, 11:54 PMElexiaEh still a very large player base waiting for the PS3, especially on the Japanese side since unlike FFXI, XIV requires a decent gaming PC which the PC gaming scene in Japan is pretty light in terms of game requirements, whereas XIV was a very large step up if you want to actually play it on decent settings and Japan already wasn't that large of a PC gaming society in comparison to Korea and America.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasse
FFXI itself was mainly trying to attract FF fans, why else would you name your MMO, "Final Fantasy" if you're trying to pull in non FF fans? People new to the series would logically start with the console games, where the series originated, rather than the online games some who started with XI went back and played the offline titles since XI while represents the FF series (Tanaka's words) doesn't fully do justice to why FF, next to DQ, was one of the biggest RPG series of all time. -
04-10-2011, 11:58 PMsolracht
Betelgeuzah, to clarify:
-FF MMORPGs are based around mindlessly grinding for hours (either by killing enemies or through guildleves) and every once in a while getting storyline cutscenes. Having money and knowing how to play the economy was also pretty important in XI, and will probably be in XIV if it ever recovers considering how crafting is set up.
-Final Fantasy games are based around experiencing a storyline, with minimal grinding needed to progress. Usually, money grew in trees. There was grinding at endgame if you wanted to beat the super bosses.
I don't see how those two types of games appeal to the same kind of players, and that's what I meant in my post: Final Fantasy MMORPGs are for a niche of MMORPG players who want a FF theme. They are not for FF players.
The "Final Fantasy" that FFXI had in it was the quality of the storyline, of the visuals, and the theme. These elements can work outside of the Everquest mold, something that FFXI fans (who are different than FF fans) refuse to accept.
In fact, the formula used by most MMORPGs nowadays is actually closer to the FF formula than what was used by FFXI: you advance by doing storyline quests, having money is not important, and the grinding only shows up at endgame.
Use that formula, add the FF theme, visuals, cutscenes and a story that we can care about, and I think that's what would be a true FF MMORPG that most FF fans would enjoy.
Note: using that formula doesn't mean that the game has to be 100% solo friendly or easy. It also doesn't mean it has to be based around strict "kill 10 boars" quests either. Simply making you partake in the storyline in order to advance forward (like defending outposts from the Garleans or disrupting beastmen skirmishes) would go a long way.
I wasn't disagreeing with your statement. I don't think FF players would flock to TERA or Guild Wars 2. I was just saying I don't see them flocking to FFXIV (and they definitely didn't to XI) unless things drastically change... and it's not the kind of change Yoshida is bringing either (although it's too early to say that). -
04-11-2011, 12:17 AMDargoth_Draconia
I really enjoyed the game up to about a month ago. Then I hit the point of not having any content and Killing the NMs became old news.
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04-11-2011, 12:32 AMLuhy
They really have two options.
Expedite the shit out of their re-design, making it into basically a FFXI clone and focus marketing efforts on the PS3 release
or
Stop giving us false hopes in the form of "updates" that add nothing and a forum where we bitch and moan and just turn the game off for two years so that they can try again -
04-11-2011, 12:34 AMBetelgeuzah
God, sol, why did you do this to me...
I had a reply written out and then I realized you're simply saying "right now the game is bad".
Just....ugh..what..sigh.
All I'm saying is that XIV has a lot more potential to bring in FF players than TERA does (non-generic, impressive visuals: check. Interesting theme: check. Story and cutscenes with a lot of potential: check.), and that the FF fanbase is so large that SE doesn't have to give a shit about anyone else and still make a hefty profit, because the people are open to the idea (even years ago when MMO's were seen as an odd entities). Your article proves this.
Also, the amount of "grind" is not an indicator of anything whatsoever. Either the game has a fast leveling curve and as the result all the content is at the top, or the leveling curve is slow yet there is more content at all levels instead of only at the top for the most part. Either there is not much else to do and you level fast, or there is much else to do and you level slow. Moreover, the "storylines" in other MMO's are like reading the FFXIII datalog to know what's going on. It's a pathetic excuse of a "story".
If you ask me, I'd rather have a long road to the cap with lots of shit to do than have it the "must get to cap asap where the game starts!!" approach. But of course, this is merely my humble opinion. Is that what you think when you play a single player FF? -
04-11-2011, 01:14 AMsolracht
We weren't really disagreeing to begin with, lol.
I just pointed out that XI wasn't really a game for average FF players and that FFXIV wasn't either when it came out. Think you just took it the wrong way.
FFXIV does have the fanbase waiting there if they play their cards right.
This is interesting to argue about, however:
I don't disagree with this (I did say "add a story we can care about"), I'm just saying I think the FF online leveling experience would gain a lot if it was more story based, like other FFs are.Quote:
Moreover, the "storylines" in other MMO's are like reading the FFXIII datalog to know what's going on. It's a pathetic excuse of a "story".
I think if the storyline is too attached to the leveling system, it can suffer for it (like in other MMORPGs) but I think it's too detached from the rest of the game in the FF MMOs. I think we would all benefit from a middle ground. I may have gone overboard by mentioning the formula of other MMORPGs, but I didn't mean that we should stick to it 100% either, I just think it's a better base than the FFXI model.
Story-based leveling doesn't mean it has to be fully text-based, either:
-Campaign was a very, very basic kind of story-based leveling to me. You fought in the war, and you advanced. It did get old because it had neither depth nor variety, and it was slower than grinding, however.
-Imagine if CoP dungeons had given you significant experience points when you went through them for storyline purposes (they would've been made with that in mind, I'm not going to make up limitations or conditions to make the current dungeons work now).
Those are the kind of things I was talking about.
We might have different views on this, but I think it's better for your players to think about how they're "saving this town" or "winning this war" or "moving forward in the main storyline", and letting them advance (level up) from trying to do that. There's plenty going on in Eorzea to make this happen on a daily basis too.
Mindlessly killing enemies "just because" feels really outdated to me, but if some people enjoy that.. they can still do it, no matter the storyline purpose behind the enemies. -
04-11-2011, 01:21 AMKilta_Firelotusdid you really have to go there >.> what is it with ppl and stupid post counts. Least i'm not writing ffxiv fails every 20 seconds. I post ideas based on what I see/ hear. Also based on my mmo experience. I own the game and I want the game to br good when I can play it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp
I got every right to post here. -
04-11-2011, 01:25 AMBetelgeuzahYep. You didn't need to post an article to prove that though. "FFXI only had 500k players" would have sufficed. I mean, that explains it all. Millions of Japanese tried the game out, only few hundred thousand stuck around. I thought you meant FF players don't care about MMO's in an FF setting by posting that link.Quote:
I just pointed out that XI wasn't really a game for average FF players and that FFXIV wasn't either when it came out. Think you just took it the wrong way.
guildQuote:
I think we would all benefit from a middle ground.
leves
for partying.
hamlet
whateverbattles
for soloing.
Surely you would say that guildleves are "not good enough". But what is it in this game that does not need more or less tweaking? The guildleve system in its current manifestation is merely a template, a tabula rasa, and they can do anything they want with it. We are not killing monsters "just because", even if in it's current form the system feels detached from the rest of the game.