Now That The Game Is Getting A Housing Upgrade, When Are The Extra Wards?

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

We always have a few of them that no matter how good the changes should be, they will try to blame players for not having a house rather than square.

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Accountability, the kryptonite of the player base..

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Originally Posted by whatsup

I see plenty of small housing each lottery. Not sure what the problem is. I have gotten mine by choosing lottery locations with very low entry numbers. Not being picky about the location for first home. You can try for better location after you get that first house.

The lottery is WAAAAAAAY better than standing and clicking for hours at the house you want. This was the old way. It was horrible.

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Lottery is way worse than old system if you're regular player. Lottery only benefits sublords.

Quite honestly, before they add any more wards, they need to seriously revamp the entire housing ward system and make it instanced. It should have been that way to start, and frankly there is no excuse for the current crap system that's in place now. They literally structured instances on top of instances in its current state, and they complain about server constraints. Well no freaking wonder it's a problem - you enter an instance to a ward, to enter another instance of a housing area, to enter another instance of a house interior - and in some cases, enter yet another instance to an FC apartment in the FC house, or workshop. And this is for each character. This is like asking your hamsters running the server to not only run on the wheel, but also pull a nine pound sledge because you are too lazy to do it yourself.

It's as bad as a 'Yo Dawg' meme and they just can't help but keep punching themselves in the face with it on an hourly basis.

Instead, they should build a basic ward system structure like when you go into Firmament, where you see large, medium and small houses. Each entry at the steps up into the yard is where you instance a house if you want to keep the outdoor furnishings, or you get rid off that, and just enter your house 'instance' inside, where you can access like a backyard or greenhouse type area for outdoor furnishing. That way you are removing two server instances of areas that can be better utilized, everyone can have a house and allow us to pick the size based on what lot we pick as our 'instance'.

SE can twirl spaghetti code like it's no one's business, but we have to eat it and it tastes like shit.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

Lottery is way worse than old system if you're regular player. Lottery only benefits sublords.

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so you'd prefer to spend 16 hours no lifting a placard, like that doesn't trigger an "ok that's obsessive and excessive to be doing that" from anybody looking at the insanity of doing that all for a virtual in-game house.

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Originally Posted by Greyhawk

Quite honestly, before they add any more wards, they need to seriously revamp the entire housing ward system and make it instanced. It should have been that way to start, and frankly there is no excuse for the current crap system that's in place now. They literally structured instances on top of instances in its current state, and they complain about server constraints. Well no freaking wonder it's a problem - you enter an instance to a ward, to enter another instance of a housing area, to enter another instance of a house interior - and in some cases, enter yet another instance to an FC apartment in the FC house, or workshop. And this is for each character. This is like asking your hamsters running the server to not only run on the wheel, but also pull a nine pound sledge because you are too lazy to do it yourself.

It's as bad as a 'Yo Dawg' meme and they just can't help but keep punching themselves in the face with it on an hourly basis.

Instead, they should build a basic ward system structure like when you go into Firmament, where you see large, medium and small houses. Each entry at the steps up into the yard is where you instance a house if you want to keep the outdoor furnishings, or you get rid off that, and just enter your house 'instance' inside, where you can access like a backyard or greenhouse type area for outdoor furnishing. That way you are removing two server instances of areas that can be better utilized, everyone can have a house and allow us to pick the size based on what lot we pick as our 'instance'.

SE can twirl spaghetti code like it's no one's business, but we have to eat it and it tastes like shit.

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Here we are again with this bunk. Noone here is qualitied to really talk about creating a housing system because nobody is willing or wanting to talk about the issues it creates with a pre-existing Ward system unless you turn off the Ward timer.

Sure Apartments fit the exact non demolishable house status you want....But not what people want they want the ability to have a plot without the demo timer, While leaving anyone with a equal sized plot on the demo timer.

All this argument is going to boil down to is players simply trying to redefine where the line of fair is, to draw it in their favor. No, everybody currently follows the same rules as it is and that how it needs to remain. Rather then asking the game to make special carve out for a "Fast Pass" for themselves while leaving everyone else to sit in the normal line.

What’s “fair” in this scenario is defined by the limitations of the systems involved.

Wards by their very nature are permanently loaded: without auto-demo, there would never be a way for new players to get a plot when someone else leaves the game for an extended period of time, or even quits for good. They are taking up permanent space. And if having a “prestigious” spot in a neighborhood setting is important enough to you, then you have to live with the auto-demo.

Instanced by its nature, does not take up permanent space and thus has no need to be subject to the same limitations. Someone owning an instanced plot doesn’t prevent anyone else from doing so. If you just want a place to decorate and call your own, your sacrifice is the easy access, visibility and maybe even limitations on the number of visitors you can have at a time.

It’s not a question of “fairness.” They are two different systems, each with their own pros and cons. Should an instanced system actually get added, you’re free to decide which suits you better, which system’s limitations you’re willing to live with.

But to impose a demo timer on a system that has no need of it, out of some misguided sense of “fairness,” is just petty jealousy. And of a system that doesn’t even exist yet!

It’s like a fish complaining that the birds living in the tree above their pond don’t have to breathe underwater. Well of course not, why would they?

But honestly it’s a probably a moot point anyway. Adding instanced would require resources and investment that they’re already struggling with in other areas of the game. So we’re stuck with a system where not everyone paying the same sub has equal access to ALL forms of housing, and where the only innovations will be in interiors, because those are instanced already.

I don't see how an instance housing system being added would negatively effect those with ward housing anyway, it's not like it takes away their houses and since everyone can get a house now, there's no need for the demolition timers anymore.

If that means some ward house stays up forever because the player who owned it quit/died/only uses it for submarines... who bloody cares? It's not like they have prime real estate anyway as I imagine an instance housing system would allow for outdoor furnishings and allow someone to change their location/skybox if they absolutely positively need their backdrop to be Shirogane or whatever, the only thing they would lose is the "neighborhood vibes" but let's be real, very few people actually care about that.

The only thing that would need to be actually addressed is company workshops to avoid people making literally infinitely instanced gil farms, but that's as easy as just patching out the items that sell for a lot of gil (which should have happened years ago anyway).

A lot of people I've ever talked to are absolutely hopeless when it comes to housing. I tell them to make an apartment and/or an FC room, it's cheap and you get it instantly. They say, well that isn't good enough. It doesn't seem to be enough that I point out, almost every property I've ever seen, there's usually only one relevant floor to the place anyway.
So I'd ask what they are bidding for then. They'll often tell me, they are looking at a particular plot of land. Not just any plot. Those good plots of land in the districts they want. Ones that might only open every 10-20 cycles of the lottery. So they barely even try, then when the plot opens - it tends to be one in high demand, because they wanted it, because it's desirable. And it has 50-100 bids, and they lose.

Then I'd tell them, just bid for a small, any small, anywhere, the one with the lowest bids. Because you could just bid for your dream house while you at least own one to start with. You even get a massive refund with all furniture transferred. And they'll tell me "naw, I'm good". or even worse, they tell me they don't even try and bid anymore, because they just assume they've lose.

And then the next day, tell me again how the Housing system needs to be fixed. I mean sure, it would be great if they added a system where everybody could get what they want. But the unwillingness to work with what we *currently have*, most people are their own worst enemy when it comes to housing.

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

What’s “fair” in this scenario is defined by the limitations of the systems involved.

Wards by their very nature are permanently loaded: without auto-demo, there would never be a way for new players to get a plot when someone else leaves the game for an extended period of time, or even quits for good. They are taking up permanent space. And if having a “prestigious” spot in a neighborhood setting is important enough to you, then you have to live with the auto-demo.

Instanced by its nature, does not take up permanent space and thus has no need to be subject to the same limitations. Someone owning an instanced plot doesn’t prevent anyone else from doing so. If you just want a place to decorate and call your own, your sacrifice is the easy access, visibility and maybe even limitations on the number of visitors you can have at a time.

It’s not a question of “fairness.” They are two different systems, each with their own pros and cons. Should an instanced system actually get added, you’re free to decide which suits you better, which system’s limitations you’re willing to live with.

But to impose a demo timer on a system that has no need of it, out of some misguided sense of “fairness,” is just petty jealousy. And of a system that doesn’t even exist yet!

It’s like a fish complaining that the birds living in the tree above their pond don’t have to breathe underwater. Well of course not, why would they?

But honestly it’s a probably a moot point anyway. Adding instanced would require resources and investment that they’re already struggling with in other areas of the game. So we’re stuck with a system where not everyone paying the same sub has equal access to ALL forms of housing, and where the only innovations will be in interiors, because those are instanced already.

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if you wanna talk about a system of pros and cons , let's start with apartments and plots. That system in itself is a compromise. Players, not accepting a compromise, doesn't mean the compromise is bad.It just means the players don't accept it

Now , let's say you say that old players should have the ability to have all forms of housing. Without needing to worry about the demolition timer. You Still have a group of players that are still subjected to the demolition timer that isnt being addressed. They are effectively "holding the bag" for retaining their plots. You are punishing the dedicatee While rewarding those who didn't put the effort in to obtain it.

It takes the merit/luck system that's already here and flips it on its head. But then calls it fair because everyone has it. That's warped logic, all they're doing is redrawing where the fairness line is accept they get to determine what's fair. They're not eliminating the injustice , they're just relocating it to where it's more convenient for them

It's a shared weight, we all have to carry to make the ward system work. But some people feel entitled to not have to share that wait and sip margaritas.While watching everyone else share the weight , but get the benefits of that weight without carrying anything themselves

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Originally Posted by SalamanderIX

A lot of people I've ever talked to are absolutely hopeless when it comes to housing. I tell them to make an apartment and/or an FC room, it's cheap and you get it instantly. They say, well that isn't good enough. It doesn't seem to be enough that I point out, almost every property I've ever seen, there's usually only one relevant floor to the place anyway.
So I'd ask what they are bidding for then. They'll often tell me, they are looking at a particular plot of land. Not just any plot. Those good plots of land in the districts they want. Ones that might only open every 10-20 cycles of the lottery. So they barely even try, then when the plot opens - it tends to be one in high demand, because they wanted it, because it's desirable. And it has 50-100 bids, and they lose.

Then I'd tell them, just bid for a small, any small, anywhere, the one with the lowest bids. Because you could just bid for your dream house while you at least own one to start with. You even get a massive refund with all furniture transferred. And they'll tell me "naw, I'm good". or even worse, they tell me they don't even try and bid anymore, because they just assume they've lose.

And then the next day, tell me again how the Housing system needs to be fixed. I mean sure, it would be great if they added a system where everybody could get what they want. But the unwillingness to work with what we *currently have*, most people are their own worst enemy when it comes to housing.

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That's what I'm saying it's not.There's a housing crisis.It's a selectiveness issue , but it's also the scarcity that they're after , not so much housing.

Because if you say turn off the demolition timer and allow everyone to have a instance plot , suddenly , the instance timer has to stay because it's not fair that people don't get a chance at the ward plot, despite the fact that they're complaining that the demolition timer is unfair. Suddenly the rules that they're saying there are that are unfair and unreasonable and cruell need to exist , because they want to partake in that scarcity. To feel like they have something that no one else has. And every time you come at them with a logical point.If it's an inconvenient, they will ignore it.Call you a gatekeeper, tell everyone to ignore you.And then basically re-seal the echo chamber, making any dissenting opinions become social outcastwhich allows these players to say that there's a consensus as long as you don't listen to anybody who deviates from it.