Can anyone clearly explain "job homogenization" in this game?

Here what Homogenization really is :
https://lineage2wiki.com/c4/class/treasure_hunter/
https://lineage2wiki.com/c4/class/plain_walker/
https://lineage2wiki.com/c4/class/abyss_walker/

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

Now do the same for ranged, magic and melee. Using the tank role where the problem obvious to tell ninja, samurai, dragoon and Reaper or Red Mage, Picto and SMN play the same is really bad faith. Reading this thread, I came to see some point of view on the general design I can understand even if I don't agree on the importance. But the 1 on 1 sill works only for tanks and maybe some healers.

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Viper and Reaper are really easy, as they have so many similarities. They both have a CD-based combo breaker that enables two more moves, one side and one rear positional. They both have a resource based mode switch that swaps out abilities. They both have finishers for these modes. They both have a 120s CD that interacts with these modes and re-enables them.

They have more similarities, but these are the big structural ones. Viper was very clearly derived from the very successful Reaper-skeleton. This is why you can have *extremely* similar hotbar setups for both.

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Here what Homogenization really is :
https://lineage2wiki.com/c4/class/treasure_hunter/
https://lineage2wiki.com/c4/class/plain_walker/
https://lineage2wiki.com/c4/class/abyss_walker/

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Well yes, but they actually use mirror classes. As in, they don't hide their homogenization, they embrace it. Is that better? Not really, no. It's a tad more honest, maybe.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Well yes, but they actually use mirror classes. As in, they don't hide their homogenization, they embrace it. Is that better? Not really, no. It's a tad more honest, maybe.

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No this is what homogenization really is.
What you call Homogenization on FFXIV is just the Core Gameplay, the skeleton of a role.

It's just a base on which the Dev are expanding on it to create a new job. Ofc, their will feel a bit similar to the previous one but, in the end they are fairly different.

But, there is some truth : they didn't really put much thought in Tank and healer "expansion" of this Core while they worked more on DPS. (Well for Healer it's more laziness because they don't care at all about this role)

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Originally Posted by Lorika

No this is what homogenization really is.
What you call Homogenization on FFXIV is just the Core Gameplay, the skeleton of a role.

It's just a base on which the Dev are expanding on it to create a new job. Ofc, their will feel a bit similar to the previous one but, in the end they are fairly different.

But, there is some truth : they didn't really put much thought in Tank and healer "expansion" of this Core while they worked more on DPS. (Well for Healer it's more laziness because they don't care at all about this role)

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Does the “skeleton of the role” being made the same not count as homogenisation when the skeleton of the role didn’t used to be the same

That’s basically saying “yeah they massively homogenised the jobs 6 years ago but since then they haven’t homogenised them further” which is still wrong anyway

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Does the “skeleton of the role” being made the same not count as homogenisation when the skeleton of the role didn’t used to be the same

That’s basically saying “yeah they massively homogenised the jobs 6 years ago but since then they haven’t homogenised them further” which is still wrong anyway

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Seriously, you are just playing on semantic just for inserting your bad faith in it.

It's like saying that two different car models are indentical just because they share the same frame : that's stupid and wrong.

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Seriously, you are just playing on semantic just for inserting your bad faith in it.

It's like saying that two different car models are indentical just because they share the same frame : that's stupid and wrong.

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(Nobody said they were identical, they said they were homogenised) Except they didn’t originally share the same frame

If you have a Toyota frame and a Honda frame then Honda decides to buy Toyota’s frame and use it in all future models

Then come along 5 years later and go “they are the same frame they were never made more similar” ignoring the fact that they became more similar 5 years ago

SCH and WHM weren’t originally the same baseline design, now they are, just because they have a bit of fluff here and there doesn’t mean they weren’t shifted to be massively more similar to each other a few years ago. And they are just one example

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

(Nobody said they were identical, they said they were homogenised) Except they didn’t originally share the same frame

If you have a Toyota frame and a Honda frame then Honda decides to buy Toyota’s frame and use it in all future models

Then come along 5 years later and go “they are the same frame they were never made more similar” ignoring the fact that they became more similar 5 years ago

SCH and WHM weren’t originally the same baseline design, now they are, just because they have a bit of fluff here and there doesn’t mean they weren’t shifted to be massively more similar to each other a few years ago. And they are just one example

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Originally Posted by Lorika

No this is what homogenization really is.
What you call Homogenization on FFXIV is just the Core Gameplay, the skeleton of a role.

It's just a base on which the Dev are expanding on it to create a new job. Ofc, their will feel a bit similar to the previous one but, in the end they are fairly different.

But, there is some truth : they didn't really put much thought in Tank and healer "expansion" of this Core while they worked more on DPS. (Well for Healer it's more laziness because they don't care at all about this role)

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Seriously /sigh

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Seriously /sigh

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Doesn’t even know that homogenisation doesn’t mean identical but acts exasperated as if they are the smartest in the room

I used SCH and WHM as an example

Would you prefer I point out that BLM was a sustained damage dealer, SMN was a DOT’er and RDM was a builder spender and now they are 3 shades of a builder spender. Or how VPR and RPR are functionally the same class or how MNK’s ramping nature was removed to make it a builder spender

Wait, if VPR is a variant of RPR, and RPR is a melee variant of MCH, does this mean VPR is a melee variant of MCH? Oshi-