ELI5: How are the current dungeons hard?

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Originally Posted by jdtuggey

If you're talking about AoE telegraphs that are avoidable, yes, they hurt a lot more. Dawntrail feels like it makes you more responsible for your mistakes.

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I was talking more about stuff like AOE bonking in M3 (especially once he drinks the bottle of whisky) and the line pewpew in M4.

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Originally Posted by TDawnstar

I was talking more about stuff like AOE bonking in M3 (especially once he drinks the bottle of whisky) and the line pewpew in M4.

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For the former, can't you surecast that to maintain control ? It's about getting bonked into a longer fuse, waiting for the short fuses to blow, and then moving there.
The line pewpew, if you mean her last phase, as a dps I often feel the need to pop survival tools then to help out healers, but it does feel rather steady and predictable, and I could see myself dealing with that as a healer with the new tools they gave us in DT, feels like philosophia on sge is custom made for that sort of situation, and we had a lesser version of these mechanics in endwalker, and they gave us panhaima for it. For the whm, it's liturgy of the bell. Idk what they got at 100. x_x
If you mean the alternating phase on the thin platform, you already spelled out the solution we all use in a previous post. :P

I mean, I don't feel what am saying here even matters.
It's hard for me to connect with your perspective ? what would you actually like ? Do you understand that some of the things you pine for would be really detrimental to other players ? >//<
Sometimes you're "endwalker was fine", sometimes you're "ffxiv is all about visual puzzles, they should return to player power and skills", but endwalker was all about visual puzzles too ? except slower ones.

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Originally Posted by TDawnstar

Having spent 14 years in WoW (and like 13 of them as holy pally), I agree completely. :)

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Case in point: I have never been able to get (modern) Holy Paladin to work for me. Something about it just doesn't mesh at all with the way my brain works. I can time +26s as a Resto Shaman, but I just curl up into a ball and let everyone die when I play Holy Pally. The classes are so wildly different that I (an objectively accomplished healer) can't even compute how anyone keeps people alive with a Holy Pally.

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And 5) in FFXIV the raid can simply bunch up in one clump and be healed by something like Cure III (except the times when mechanics need to be resolved, of course). In WoW, there are fights where you need to be spread out most of the time (at least you used to have, no idea about now).

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Still true in WoW. It depends a lot on the individual fight, of course, but there are still lots of fights where it makes strategic sense to spread out.

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And 6) (or should I say 0): the ratio of healer to DPS in WoW allows the encounter to be tuned for a very limited healer DPS, unlike FFXIV where everyone is basically a DPS, otherwise it doesn't compute.

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The ratios aren't really much different, but I agree that it feels different. Healer DPS in FFXIV feels like it's just the thing I do because it's the most efficient way for me to spend my globals. Healer DPS in WoW feels like I'm doing something extra special to help us time this key.

The biggest difference is that you just have less time to DPS in WoW because you have to heal more and every heal costs a global, but each individual DPS global contributes more damage.

WoW = More time healing, less time DPSing, more DPS per global
FFXIV = Less time healing, more time DPSing, less DPS per global

It balances out to feel like a pretty comparable level of contribution.

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And 7) Mana is basically inexistent for all classes in FFXIV, including healers.

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This is very class and era-dependent in WoW. The last time I played, Holy Paladin literally could not spend all their mana if they tried, but Mistweaver could dump all their mana at once for massive throughput.

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And yes, I think the point 2 is the most important one, but I don't know why it's so hard to throw more damage at the expense of running to resolve mechs.

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The importance that big numbers have on difficulty is bizarrely underrated. I've had more than one person tell me infinitely scaling of health/damage numbers in dungeons (ie: keys) wouldn't impact difficulty at all, which, uh, try a +2 and a +25 and get back to me.

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Yes, same here :(

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I love FFXIV and hate WoW, but WoW still has a lot of redeeming qualities that I wish could be pulled into this game.

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Originally Posted by jdtuggey

The line pewpew, if you mean her last phase, as a dps I often feel the need to pop survival tools then to help out healers, but it does feel rather steady and predictable, and I could see myself dealing with that as a healer with the new tools they gave us in DT,

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You wont even see that phase anymore in a few weeks, i already skipped it once because we had good dps an no one died.

They're not hard, they're just more fun. Vanguard 2 boss comes to mind with the DDR AoEs that feel hectic at first, but once you run it a couple times you realize it's just Ultima EX's line spam with a small bait AoE every few seconds. People complaining simply don't want to put effort into playing the game. I've had a LOT of spam healers in dungeons and have had to stop suggesting they use their AoE because of how many of them get all defensive and trigger-happy with the votekick feature if they're queuing with a bum chum. Similarly, healing some tanks, particularly DRKs when they don't understand the kit is just as painful as it's always been.

The short answer is always just "people are lazy."

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Originally Posted by Exani

I dont get it.

The current set of "Expert roulette" dungeons feels the same as it has always been. Some mechanics might be hard-ish to dodge, but they are very rarely very punshing if you mess it up. As a DPS or healer its mostly no problem to mess up a mechanic 2-3 times during a fight, a tank can probably survive even more mess ups. And even if you should die you can revived and its usally no problem. There is no enrage, and very few mess ups are punshing for the entire party, a mess up will usally just affect yourself. Almost any mess up or subpar play from 1-2 party members is recoverable.

I have over 1500 hours in this game and I think I can count on one hand every time I've encountered someone complaining about subpar play in roulette/duty finder content. Most people dont care if you die 5 times during a dungeon run since the dungeon is still clearable without much issue.

This feels the same as it has always been. I dont get it.

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I was playing with my friend the other day. He's not very good, bless his heart. He got through a boss as a tank with 7(!!!) vulns and still survived. I was healing so I was sweating a little bit. But if he can clear the content, anyone can lol.

If anything they feel undertuned. felt like today the bosses in tender valley melted before they could do anything, and savage and crafted gear isn't even out yet

They get easy over time once u get it down. The lvl 100 dungeons are fun. Especially deadborough

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Originally Posted by Jinglypockets

Case in point: I have never been able to get (modern) Holy Paladin to work for me. Something about it just doesn't mesh at all with the way my brain works. I can time +26s as a Resto Shaman, but I just curl up into a ball and let everyone die when I play Holy Pally. The classes are so wildly different that I (an objectively accomplished healer) can't even compute how anyone keeps people alive with a Holy Pally.

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Well, at least you are offered some choice of your healing style. I'm not surprised if SE knew that they have pushed themselves into a corner with the lack of job identities, but I am afraid that by 8.0, it will already be too late.

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Originally Posted by Jinglypockets

The importance that big numbers have on difficulty is bizarrely underrated. I've had more than one person tell me infinitely scaling of health/damage numbers in dungeons (ie: keys) wouldn't impact difficulty at all, which, uh, try a +2 and a +25 and get back to me.

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Well, I obviously don't know what is the reasoning behind these, but if I had to guess, it's because of how powerful mitigation and healing is in FFXIV right now. Maybe they think that even bumping the damage a bit would still allow them to do wall to wall with little to no issues?

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Originally Posted by Jinglypockets

I love FFXIV and hate WoW, but WoW still has a lot of redeeming qualities that I wish could be pulled into this game.

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Pretty much the same. I wish they got a better lead with a better vision for WoW.