Relic Weapons. CONCERNS/SUGGESTIONS

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Originally Posted by Arkine

Meanwhile in Ul'dah.

The same Elf from earlier just got his Triple melded T4 Pants with 28STR 30VIT on his first try.

1/1

He must have put in more effort than you.


Hint: He didn't.

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Yes, yes he did. You know how?

Hint: He's an Elezen. Do you have any idea how much effort it takes to be this damn sexy?

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Originally Posted by Arkine

I'm sorry, but you lack the comprehension skills required to fix anything for anybody.


Garuda.

I'll give you a minute to pick your jaw off the floor.

Done?

Heres what happens when/if you beat Garuda: (pay attention, this is important)

You get a Headdress. (Two(2) if you speed run)

EVERY TIME!

but you need 40 to get a weapon, that's 40 fights per weapon, and I very much doubt that you're so much of a badass that 40 victories is equal to getting something handed to you, we're talking 140~280 runs for a 7/7.

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Sorry what? who is laking comprehension? I'm speaking about "you want luck to always favor you" you don't only say that i lack comprehension that you go straight to another argument with garuda as "how things should be" skiping the whole problem here.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

Now I'll give you a star for understanding how to bold up text. ☆ <-- all yours.

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I'm taking it because i'm going to give it back to you right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arkine

Now you're killing Garuda and working your way towards 40 seals, this is all effort, you earned this, but suddenly! you see a Garuda's Scream in your rewards! oh look at that you got lucky, this isn't going to happen very often, and you're already half way through your original set, are you going to stop?

Probably not, you're going to get it finished for another weapon.

That's measurable progress and that's how luck works for you, and its great.

We need more of this.

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What? So you are making a statement where "luck always favor you" on a system (gona use your expample) Garuda where you can do the run and go out with nothing. Sorry but... isn't that the same as doble meld? If you are lucky you get the "totem" or the doble meld BUT if you aren't lucky you get nothing.

See the contradition or you still can't see the negative part on the bolded parts that you seem to like that much?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arkine

Now lets look at how luck works against you PLUS no measurable progress:

400 Cutter's Cry runs, at a rate of 5 a day, 7 days a week for a total of 80 days.

That's almost 3 months of doing just Cutters Cry every day for about 3 and a half hours.

Where is your Darklight Cuirass? you don't have! not because you didn't put in enough time and effort. NOPE! but because you're not lucky enough to have it.

All your time effort and mad skillz got you nothing.

On the other hand some elf(hate elves) just finished his first ever Vale run on his WAR with a veteran group and just got his Heavy Darklight Armor and is now hitting on Lalafells with it. (the scoundrel!)

That is the kind of world you think is fair, and I'm spoiled for disagreeing with you.

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You stated that garuda system is perfect with luck since you get rewarded by your effort which is not and now you are arguing about how bad is cutter's cry(example) because it has a negative part and no 100% reward. Isn't the same as Garuda? ifrit? eveyrthing not only ingame but life? or did they changed the meaning of luck? Is good or bad but not always good.

Definition of luck.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

You level the craft > you gather the materials > you buy the materia > you meld it > you double mel- BOOM!!!! Screw you and your effort, this is RNG territory!

You try again. BOOM!!!

Again BOOM!!!

BOOM!!!

0/21


Meanwhile in Ul'dah.

The same Elf from earlier just got his Triple melded T4 Pants with 28STR 30VIT on his first try.

1/1

He must have put in more effort than you.


Hint: He didn't.

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WELCOME SIR! Please come in, we have a free sport for one more person with the butt hurt.
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...5/butthurt.jpg
Because you seem to like pictures.

He didn't? He did the effort and you too. He tried the meld and you too. He didn't broke it but you did. You saw him doing 1/1 meld but you probably missed 100 that he broke. You complain about luck while he has this face now.

http://nforum.ogplanet.com/lostsagae...-Trollface.png

I'm doing it right?

Thanks for your time.

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Originally Posted by Wycor

Sorry what? who is laking comprehension? I'm speaking about "you want luck to always favor you" you don't only say that i lack comprehension that you go straight to another argument with garuda as "how things should be" skiping the whole problem here.

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False.

I said Luck should work for you, not against you.

What I meant is, only luck you can sometimes get is good luck, never bad luck.

Just like Garuda.

Every Victory = 100% drop on 1 headdress. (this is confirmed)
Luck decides to step in = a weapon.

This is measurable progress, you get something every time you succeed.

But we're here for the luck part of this example.

Luck here ONLY work FOR YOU.

Every time luck decides to work it works positively.



Luck working against you:

Ifrit
You win = you'll more than likely get dark matter. (yay?)
If you're lucky = 1 totem.
If you're very lucky = a weapon.

Here we see how you get nothing unless you get lucky. this is what I'm against.

Luck here can work against you (you get nothing) or for you (You get a drop).

Here's how you phrased it.

Quote:

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luck to always favor you

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Seems to me like you interpreted it as:

Ifrit
Weapon every time, be done in 7 runs.

Whiched caused you to wig out. (As Buffy would phrase it)

I did not say or mean anything that is anything like the above situation.


Comprende?

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What? So you are making a statement where "luck always favor you" on a system (gona use your expample) Garuda where you can do the run and go out with nothing. Sorry but... isn't that the same as doble meld? If you are lucky you get the "totem" or the doble meld BUT if you aren't lucky you get nothing.

See the contradition or you still can't see the negative part on the bolded parts that you seem to like that much?

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Not gonna lie.

I'm not 100% sure on what you're trying to say.

But just to recap:

Everytime you beat Garuda you get a Headress. only luck you can have is good luck which is getting a weapon. = You always progress and sometimes you get "Good Luck"

This is good.

Everytime you beat Ifrit you only get rewarded if you're lucky = You never progress unless you get lucky, your victory is meaningless without getting lucky.

This is bad.

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You stated that garuda system is perfect with luck since you get rewarded by your effort which is not and now you are arguing about how bad is cutter's cry(example) because it has a negative part and no 100% reward. Isn't the same as Garuda? ifrit? eveyrthing not only ingame but life? or did they changed the meaning of luck? Is good or bad but not always good.

Getting a headress every time is rewarding your effort, you fought and you won and you got a headress for that.

Sometimes you get lucky and get more rewards.(Weapons)

Not the same as CC and Ifrit where its something like this:

You win = you get no rewards unless you get lucky. bad luck is the default outcome here.


What I'm asking for is that every instanced content we have follows the Garuda method.

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He didn't? He did the effort and you too. He tried the meld and you too. He didn't broke it but you did. You saw him doing 1/1 meld but you probably missed 100 that he broke. You complain about luck while he has this face now.

I'm doing it right?

Thanks for your time.

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You figured out how to insert images, yes.

Can't say the same about the rest of discussion, no.

You cannot add extra parameters to my Elf, he did no more that 1 meld in this scenario, luck worked in his favor and was rewarded.

You did 10 times the effort, paid 10 times the money and spent 10 times the time he did and you got nothing to show for it.

Only because he got lucky and you did not.


I'll simplify this even further.

The mentioned Elf is completely fictional(hes not real), but we'll change it up to Mermaid to avoid further confusion.

To set an example of an entirely possible situation for how making luck the only factor that matters = bad.

He/She did not do any melding while I wasn't paying attention, that's not how it usually works.

Elf Mermaid Abomination I created bought the following:

Felt Trousers. 50,000Gil

Ironman's Will Materia VI 100,000Gil
Ironman's Will Materia VI 100,000Gil
Ironman's Will Materia VI 100,000Gil

Catalyst 5,000Gil
Catalyst 5,000Gil
Catalyst 5,000Gil

Total Cost: 365,000Gil

Result: Triple Melded Felt trousers.


What you bought:

Felt Trousers.
Felt Trousers.
Felt Trousers.
Felt Trousers.
Felt Trousers.
Felt Trousers.
Felt Trousers.
Felt Trousers.
Felt Trousers.
Felt Trousers.

Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI
Ironman's Will Materia VI

God knows how many catalysts.

Total Cost: 3,000,000gil?

Result: Nothing.

There is no way to argue for this system, the effort to reward ratio is completely random.
There is no "You didn't put in enough effort" because that value (once again) is unknown and completely random.

Not to sound like an extremist leader of a revolution in a "Republic City", but wouldn't system where we're equal be better?

You do a set number of tasks to fill in a melding meter to increase the success rate.

Maybe...

Spirit bond 500,000exp to get a guaranteed success on a double meld.

Spirit bond 1,000,000exp to get a guaranteed success on a triple meld.

Just as an example, while keeping the current system for those that prefer gambling be better than having no choice in the matter and leaving it entirely in luck's hands?


Done hammering this point in.

Adios.

Only concern I have is will they treat relic weapons like they are treated in XI? As in what jobs came out when relics were introduced are the only jobs that will be able to get relics or will they add a new relic weapon every time a new job comes out? Because I'm really hoping for a relic whip named Vampire Killer.

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Originally Posted by fusional

you're saying things you haven't yet experienced or beaten (AV/CC 17 min runs, DH 15min runs, relic faction leves, garuda) require no skill. alright, then. let's revisit this thread when you've got the experience to back up the claim.

but in the meantime, i don't understand the sense of entitlement so many players have about this. getting relic takes work. it takes DoH/DoL classes or a lot of farming, which equals work. it takes a fair sum of gil (even though i'm pretty poor and have never had more than 30m on me at any given time, yet i'm managing alright), which equals work. it takes grinding unfinished weapon spiritbond for hours, which equals work. and it requires completing several challenging steps to boot, which equals more work.

if you don't want to put in the work, or can't- fine. then relic isn't for you. but simply by virtue of it existing in the game, that doesn't mean you should automatically be entitled to it. relic was put here for the hardcores to put in a ton of work and get fast, and for everyone else to work toward as a long-term goal.

but whether hardcore or casual, expecting to get it overnight with just a few hours of time invested is downright silly. the game has items people can easily obtain with that amount of effort. and now it also has items people have to put exponentially more effort into in order to obtain.

if you still want relic, level your DoH and DoL or put in a lot of time farming. network. find people who can convert your mats into the weapons you'll need to meld. watch the auction house. make a concerted effort to build up your pool of gil. take steps toward it and eventually you'll have it.

but just because some players have already put in a large portion of the necessary work before relic was implemented, that doesn't mean the game should magically quantum leap you up to speed with them when you didn't. this system is mostly fair and rewards dedication, perseverance, a bit of luck, and skill.

i don't necessarily like the way they're using the materia system for this, as it's very imbalanced at the moment (and i'm completely certain RMT are making a killing off of honest players right now)- but relic aren't meant to be handouts. these aren't welfare weapons.

put in the time and you'll get one, just like anyone else. period.

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Horrible luck with double melding ensured that the class wpn for relic ended up costing me nearly 80 million, meanwhile other players succeed double melds on their first time. I failed 14 (2m x 14 + 1.3m x 28m) in a row, and and ended up having to buy a double melded obelisk outright for 29 million. Gambling with that much gil is ridiculous. It would be vastly improved if the quest simply required a payment of XX million gil. I'd be all for that. It would mean it cost everyone the same amount for their relic. High stakes gambling should never be part of a quest chain like this. It's absolutely sickening. The materia system as a whole need to be redesigned.