To YoshiP, here's what too stress-free: Healer edition

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Originally Posted by Kinazu

Then let me answer question straight: They don't have to be excluseive from one another. Yes, we can absolutely have both. I just personally feel we're really lacking on the healing scale as of now, and that's why I advocate for more healing. Yes, I wouldn't mind a bit more complexity to the DPS rotation as well, just so that I don't fall asleep during a dungeon, but again I'd rather that I have to heal more to keep myself awake. That being said, I don't mind if both happens either. So again: I don't mind if both healing increases and that we get more DPS-options. I just have a personal preference for one, that does not mean that I disagree with you.

And on that note, I apologise. it seems I've misunderstood your post and, for me, it came across as you only wanted to increase the DPS-side of things. Miscommunications happen unfortunately.

Does that answer your question?

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Yes, that does answer the question. Thank you. We don't actually disagree on anything then, I also hate that we barely have anything to heal in Endwalker. I would just personally rather see us get both rather than just more healing to do while the damage side of the kit is left to rot.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Yes, that does answer the question. Thank you. We don't actually disagree on anything then, I also hate that we barely have anything to heal in Endwalker. I would just personally rather see us get both rather than just more healing to do while the damage side of the kit is left to rot.

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That is the reason why I want see the shift for a stronger healing requirement. I think that packing most of the Tanks with a lot of self-sustain (without a cost, in essence), is harming the healing side of things more than it does it any good. If I can get by with <10 healing spells in an entire dungeon, something is wrong. I do think the lesser healing requirement in Endwalker is a combination of a lot of things and handled overall poorly. I just want healing to be fun again. I will agree that Stormblood was, and still is, the peak of healer design (minus White Mage's Lilies) and that it went downhill from there. Sure it had its flaws as well but I had a ton of fun healing in Omega and the Ivalice raids.

But I suppose all we can do is wait and see what Dawntrail brings. Let's just hope it's something good. Of course, if they give us the best of both worlds that would be great! But... I am tempering my expectations.

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Originally Posted by Kinazu

That is the reason why I want see the shift for a stronger healing requirement. I think that packing most of the Tanks with a lot of self-sustain (without a cost, in essence), is harming the healing side of things more than it does it any good. If I can get by with <10 healing spells in an entire dungeon, something is wrong. I do think the lesser healing requirement in Endwalker is a combination of a lot of things and handled overall poorly. I just want healing to be fun again. I will agree that Stormblood was, and still is, the peak of healer design (minus White Mage's Lilies) and that it went downhill from there. Sure it had its flaws as well but I had a ton of fun healing in Omega and the Ivalice raids.

But I suppose all we can do is wait and see what Dawntrail brings. Let's just hope it's something good. Of course, if they give us the best of both worlds that would be great! But... I am tempering my expectations.

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As I stated in my original post, we are lacking on healing frequency. We just don’t actually heal very much. While we can absolutely realign the balance between DPs and healing uptime by re-examining each healers healing toolkit and adjust it alongside some adjustments to future combat encounters, we also have to recognize that FFXIV will never be able to demand a frequency of healing that is higher than there frequency that we DPS. The reason being because that is not how any content in the game is structured thus far, which means what you’d be asking for is a redesigning of the entire game. You’d need every fight that has ever been made to accommodate that increase in healing demand. You can just switch to WOW healing at level 91+

Having time to DPS as a healer is just how FFXIV is. It’s how it’s always been. I don’t get why people can’t just accept that, including the design team. Why fight the nature of the game especially when that’s something that made FFXIV’s healers unique? WOW already exists. Why does FFXIV need to be WOW for people when it can just be FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

As I stated in my original post, we are lacking on healing frequency. We just don’t actually heal very much. While we can absolutely realign the balance between DPs and healing uptime by re-examining each healers healing toolkit and adjust it alongside some adjustments to future combat encounters, we also have to recognize that FFXIV will never be able to demand a frequency of healing that is higher than there frequency that we DPS. The reason being because that is not how any content in the game is structured thus far, which means what you’d be asking for is a redesigning of the entire game. You’d need every fight that has ever been made to accommodate that increase in healing demand. You can just switch to WOW healing at level 91+

Having time to DPS as a healer is just how FFXIV is. It’s how it’s always been. I don’t get why people can’t just accept that, including the design team. Why fight the nature of the game especially when that’s something that made FFXIV’s healers unique? WOW already exists. Why does FFXIV need to be WOW for people when it can just be FFXIV?

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And as I stated a few post above, I am not against adding more DPS-buttons. Please, do point to where I said to turn XIV into WoW. All I said was that we could look to WoW for ideas/changes and apply them to XIV in a way that would suit XIV, and that a 1-on-1 copy would never work and should not be what we want to achieve. I just want is to heal more. Not heal all the time either, but also not heal for only less than 10% of an entire fight and/or dungeon. I just feel that the scale is tipped too much in one direction, thus we barely get to heal.

What's the point of a Healer role when there's barely anything to heal? I'm not complaining about having to DPS as a Healer, you're accusing me of being against something that I find completely normal and that I am also advocating to do when I teach newer peole to heal here. Again, all I am asking for is for the healing requirement to be increased so it doesn't stay the way it is now. And if that comes paired with more DPS-buttons great! Everyone's happy. And if not, I'll count my losses and still play the role regardless.

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Originally Posted by Kinazu

And as I stated a few post above, I am not against adding more DPS-buttons. Please, do point to where I said to turn XIV into WoW. All I said was that we could look to WoW for ideas/changes and apply them to XIV in a way that would suit XIV, and that a 1-on-1 copy would never work and should not be what we want to achieve. I just want is to heal more. Not heal all the time either, but also not heal for only less than 10% of an entire fight and/or dungeon. I just feel that the scale is tipped too much in one direction, thus we barely get to heal.

What's the point of a Healer role when there's barely anything to heal? I'm not complaining about having to DPS as a Healer, you're accusing me of being against something that I find completely normal and that I am also advocating to do when I teach newer peole to heal here. Again, all I am asking for is for the healing requirement to be increased so it doesn't stay the way it is now. And if that comes paired with more DPS-buttons great! Everyone's happy. And if not, I'll count my losses and still play the role regardless.

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I didn’t accuse you of anything. I’m just trying to stress the point the DPS is very much a part of what makes FFXIV’s healer role what it is. The point at the end was directed primarily at the designers. They were not questions directed at you.

I joined in EW,
and even i can see how terrible bad and low
the healing requirements have gotten in this expansion(game)..

The healing requirements, in this game is all over the place..
For the most part its at the bottom...especially true in lv 90 content..
Only a few bosses has some bite to them..and even so they get outlvled quick by ilvl..
I find myself healing more in lvl 50-80 content -- then at 90!..

Healing requirements i would like to see:
*Damage need to happen way more frequent!
*Inc auto hit dmg on bosses.
*Add DoT mechs, that hits all and last for 30-40sec.
*More unavoidable and random dmg spikes.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

As I stated in my original post, we are lacking on healing frequency. We just don’t actually heal very much. While we can absolutely realign the balance between DPs and healing uptime by re-examining each healers healing toolkit and adjust it alongside some adjustments to future combat encounters, we also have to recognize that FFXIV will never be able to demand a frequency of healing that is higher than there frequency that we DPS. The reason being because that is not how any content in the game is structured thus far, which means what you’d be asking for is a redesigning of the entire game. You’d need every fight that has ever been made to accommodate that increase in healing demand. You can just switch to WOW healing at level 91+

Having time to DPS as a healer is just how FFXIV is. It’s how it’s always been. I don’t get why people can’t just accept that, including the design team. Why fight the nature of the game especially when that’s something that made FFXIV’s healers unique? WOW already exists. Why does FFXIV need to be WOW for people when it can just be FFXIV?

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Who said anything about it being like WoW? I'd much rather it be more like XI was - where every job's actual role was important in content. A bard did a bard's job, a Red Mage did a red mage's job, and a White mage did a White mage's job. The blending we see is far more like WoW than any Final Fantasy game. DPS being expected is why I will never pick up my healer jobs on any content of note, I barely even go into dungeons now it's not worth it. If I'm to DPS and that's my main function, there's other jobs for that, more fun, and no side eye when someone did stepped in something bad and died when I was mid-holy.

I agree they would have to redesign from the ground up, but the problem is they have no clear vision for what they want these jobs to be or do.

Why not just get rid of all the differences, make everyone a DPS, and make it all like Bozja where folks fill in the gaps they need with items. That's more or less what we're going. We have DPS with some threat generation\mitigation, a DPS that can do a little healing, and a DPS that hits a little harder than the rest.

Personally I think the whole thing needs major improvements. The playerbases' expectations leaning toward high DPS from all jobs isn't helping.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Who said anything about it being like WoW? I'd much rather it be more like XI was - where every job's actual role was important in content. A bard did a bard's job, a Red Mage did a red mage's job, and a White mage did a White mage's job. The blending we see is far more like WoW than any Final Fantasy game. DPS being expected is why I will never pick up my healer jobs on any content of note, I barely even go into dungeons now it's not worth it. If I'm to DPS and that's my main function, there's other jobs for that, more fun, and no side eye when someone did stepped in something bad and died when I was mid-holy.

I agree they would have to redesign from the ground up, but the problem is they have no clear vision for what they want these jobs to be or do.

Why not just get rid of all the differences, make everyone a DPS, and make it all like Bozja where folks fill in the gaps they need with items. That's more or less what we're going. We have DPS with some threat generation\mitigation, a DPS that can do a little healing, and a DPS that hits a little harder than the rest.

Personally I think the whole thing needs major improvements. The playerbases' expectations leaning toward high DPS from all jobs isn't helping.

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But even then, what would be the point of just doing XI’s system all over again when XI still exists? XIV should be different because it’s a different game.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

You just gave me vague answers while dodging. Again, I ask, why must we choose one or the other? How does my enjoyment of optimising my damage rotation hurt your enjoyment of the increased healing requirements? You would literally be getting what you want if healing requirements are increased. Why does what I want have to hinge on you not getting what you want and vice versa?

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I'll answer it for you because I've seen it said a lot:

Sylphies reject any kind of DPS increasing abilities on healers because if that were the case the CBU3 job team would have to factor them into fights. That would in turn, essentially require all healers to DPS some in order to clear fights in Prog.

And they don't want that responsibility. It's as plain as that. They want to heal and if DPS options were added, they're afraid they'd have to learn how to DPS.

Granted, I agree 100% with your stance. The game as a healer sucks when sh!t isn't hitting the fan and yet it still sucks when you hit enrage because of all the damage downs accrued when people die due to avoidable damage.

Had this thought, and it might be kind of contradictory to the role, but what if healers had fewer unique healing actions, but more ways to interact with them, and change their effects. Like for example, WHM's primary AOE healing spell were Cure III, but WHM had the tools to like make it an instant cast, make it an oGCD, add a regen effect to it, increase its healing potency or even add damage to it.