Pulling why?

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

If you want to pull 3 mobs at a time, there's the trust system for your specific needs. Don't "Force" your snail pace on other people through casual content. DPS can do your job better

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So,you only option is forcing the tank playing by your own standards and if he not he should not join a party? Well, it can be said the same thing to you, don't like the pace, leave or be a tank.

In the end, none should play the game by others players standers, because they have decided how other should do and play.

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Originally Posted by Shakiness5972

P.S - if you join a party, get used to meet tanks who will be slow and pull wall to a wall. you can suggest if they pull more, but in the end, if they don't want to, and you unhappy, just leave.

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This is the general consensus: majority wins.

In NA DC at the very least, there are more people who wants to go faster & take aggro happily off any mobs that non-tanks pulls than not, accidentally or not. Don't like it? You can:

1. Leave and PF your own "I wanna go slow"-run.
2. Play in JP DC. They will happily pull off "YPYT" if any non-tank dares to pull ahead & the rest of the party will support them.

You're playing in the wrong DC if you think you can enforce your "Tank decides the pace"-rule and not the other way around without getting voted out yourself.

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Originally Posted by Shakiness5972

So,you only option is forcing the tank playing by your own standards and if he not he should not join a party? Well, it can be said the same thing to you, don't like the pace, leave or be a tank.

In the end, none should play the game by others players standers, because they have decided how other should do and play.

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“None should play the game by others standards”……unless it’s me as the tank in which play play by my standards because I’m the leader or something

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Originally Posted by Shakiness5972

So,you only option is forcing the tank playing by your own standards and if he not he should not join a party? Well, it can be said the same thing to you, don't like the pace, leave or be a tank.

In the end, none should play the game by others players standers, because they have decided how other should do and play.

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Ironic statement. Do the community a favor and be a real tank. I can play reaper and wall to wall pull with a healer just comfy. Why cant you?

Here's my philosophy:
- If you want to w2w, discuss with your group.
- If you want to not w2w, discuss with your group.
- If you want to impose the rhythm or want to not discuss, use the duty support.

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Originally Posted by Shakiness5972

Someone need to decide the pace of the party, and by default is always the Tank who will decide.

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At first, you are right, because if the tank is horribly underequiped (Especially in low level dungeon, such as Stone Vigil for exemple), they can take quite a lot of damage even with Defensive cooldown up, so the healers can't maintain them, let's be real, the Healer kit at low level is pretty much empty, you barely have 2-3 heal at best and they are always casted, so if monster does more damage than what the healer is capable of while spamming his best heal, it's death. (Last corridor of Stone vigil with 6 ice elementals + 3-4 dragons is Horrible to maintain if your team don't have the right kit)

Now that it's said, let me get it straight. The first person who can decide to pull more or not is the Tank DEPENDING on his stuff (This is more the case in low level dungeon and leveling dungeon through various expansion than 50/60/70/80/90 dungeon that are at the end of an extension). If the tank is HORRIBLY understuff, he will probably pull less than what we see usually. How to correct that ? Simple. Don't go under stuffed inside a low level dungeon, try to keep stuff up to date. Read a guide if you don't know what you are doing with your tank. This is what we call a bug inside the Chair-Keyboard Interface (If you see what is between the two).

If the tank is correctly equipped, Their is little to no reason to pull one pack after another instead of W2W. Now, if the healer isn't stuffed either, you can't sustain it (Unless you are a War at least level 56 with Intuition). So the healer may ASK you to pull more or less depending on how he manage your health. Of course, We are on a MMORPG with lot of different people. But one thing doesn't change, we have to communicate between each other. There will always be difference in term of what people expect or how skilled they are. One things that is true is : "You can't force people to play a way they don't like". Everyone has to be open minded because it's just a game, especially in casual content (Self explanatory, CASUAL CONTENT, not High-End Content). Not playing fast in a dungeon isn't a fatality, you will clear it anyway, no matter what happens. Playing in Savage or Ultimate with one person slowing down the team on a progression or a kill, that's a entire different matter and I can understand that, because we all want to kill the 4th stage as fast as possible when the content is unlocked to get our BiS/Mount/Orchestrion etc...

Overall, I think their two different issue inside Dungeon.

The first is Tank NOT pulling when they can and the second is DPS/Healer pulling when they SHOULDN'T.

Tank NOT pulling when they can is kinda self explanatory. They have the stuff, they have the skills... You know what I mean.

DPS/Healer SHOULD NOT pull when the tank is already going to pull. You have 0 Reason to pull before a Tank who is CLEARLY going to aggro more trash mob. The only things that you can get is to be destroyed because of some Trash mobs Double auto attack AND/OR Tank not reacting fast enough or missing his AoE when the pack is moving towards him (Yeah I know, it's not hard to not miss, but people miss that sometimes). This will cause the Healer to heal unnecessary damage and can lead to the DPS death because of some raidwide done by trashmobs if they survived at first (It's a rare occasion to see that, but some mob in certain dungeon actually do raidwide). Trying to get faster to gain 2-3 seconds can actually lead to a loss in time if you just die this way. So you loose more time than you try to gain. Also, If you don't have time for yourself, don't tag a dungeon/raid/trial. DPS/Healer also shouldn't pull when the tank is heavily underequipped or a completely new player who is trying to tank for the first time ever inside a game (You will only make him panic, yes Tanxiety is a real thing)

Now, what about the YPYT mentality. This was clearly a thing back on WoW because of how Trashmobs in dungeon really hit HARD and how aggro worked at the time (It was a long time ago, back on WOTLK). But here, letting your DPS or healer die because of this will only punish you too. It's not only a matter of "time" but also how certain people in the community will see you after the dungeon (Especially those who just want to speedclear anything with anyone.) So how do I react to people pulling before me inside a dungeon when I'm a tank ? Simple. I shut my mouth, finish the dungeon, and just blacklist the player who is just trying to gain mere seconds by pulling like crazy (even when i'm clearly going to pull anyway) or use Rescue on me so I can reach the next pack faster (Like I said, MERE SECONDS) because he doesn't have the time to play with random people trying to enjoy the game without stress.

Making random people play like you want without consent, is like going outside, asking a random person to follow you and that person has nothing to say or an opinion to give.

As a Tank, it's your job to pull, but it's also your responsibility to SAY IT when you want to pull less for some reason. People can always agree or disagree with you, it's doesn't change the fact that you warned your teammates. At least that.

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Originally Posted by Shakiness5972

Pull like a man? So we need 'Man up' to play this game by your own standards? Soo toxin..yikes...

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Yes. Man Mode

If I wanna learn a tank, I go Duty Support. Once I am comfortable with my rotation and have a good idea on how to do pulls, i w2w. Simple as that.

My time is as important as others are. If they wanna speedy clear, I give it to them.

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Originally Posted by Jidka

Here's my philosophy:
- If you want to w2w, discuss with your group.
- If you want to not w2w, discuss with your group.
- If you want to impose the rhythm or want to not discuss, use the duty support.

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I'm not going to ask the group if they want me to do wall-to-wall pulls when 99% of the time the answer is going to be "yes."

If the healer wants me to go slower because they're new to their job, I may consider it on more threatening packs in certain levelling dungeons, but it's not the end of the world if they need to throw a GCD heal or two since it's still faster if me and the DPS are AoEing multiple packs.

Yeah, people do not want to have a discussion before every single run over the most basics of the basics, it's a pretty disingenuous take. The tank should pull and if someone else wants to pull more, they just need to do it properly and bring the mobs to the tank.

The tank doesn't need to do anything different, I don't know why this is such a problem. You'd think shy tanks would be just glad someone else steps up to take the responsibility if you wipe.